LIV Golf (Saudi PIF), "Mergers," and More

[ssbn611]

21 hours ago, DeadMan said:

That may be the rub, too. Some of these contracts are reportedly set up as advances. I'd bet that others have certain player guarantees to get the full amount. I don't think it's as simple as Pat Perez just keeping all of the money he got if he gets booted.

Perez signed a four year contract. He received $5M up front and the other $5M when he played in the Oregon tournament. I can't imagine the contract would allow them to drop a player and clawback any of the money already paid. The LIV Tour what maybe 20 or so names so far? They fill up the rest of the field with basically no name golfers. So it looks like they have plenty of room to sign more PGA Tour players. 

Say what you will about Perez, but he is the most honest about why he signed. He already has more money in less than a month on the LIV Tour than he was likely to earn in four more years (when he turns 50) on the PGA Tour. He has never lost his tour card and has had to grind it out the past few years. Why shouldn't he do something that secures the future for him and his family?  I know, the sports washing, but big money would tempt many people.
 

[iacas]

2 hours ago, ssbn611 said:

I know, the sports washing

That, and literally what he said like a month ago.

[turtleback]

22 hours ago, iacas said:

It is harsh, because… CHIII was one of the most widely respected PGA Tour players. He'd earned a solid living for a LONG time, yet he could still go to most places and be unrecognized. Tour players have a deep respect for CHIII.

But here's the thing.  He's been on tour for more than twenty years, and by Tour standards has been a pretty mediocre player.  In more than 20 years he has amassed the grand total of three Tour victories.  He never even sniffed a major win, having exactly one top ten in a major.  He also had one top ten in a Players.  In over 20 years.  Yet this mediocre performance has allowed him to accumulate $43 million in winnings.  So just how terrible has the Tour been to him?  It gave him a lifestyle in the top .0001% of people on Earth.  But when he should be falling on his knees in gratitude for what the Tour has done for him in providing him with that lifestyle, he stabs it in the back.  For money.  Because being in the top .0001% isn't good enough.  Because he has to feed his family, donchyaknow.

[mcanadiens]

Those washed-up hacks are in for it now. Look who is on his way.

 

[saevel25]

33 minutes ago, turtleback said:

But here's the thing.  He's been on tour for more than twenty years, and by Tour standards has been a pretty mediocre player. 

How many golfers maintain their tour card for 20 years? I think if you took every golfer, who has ever gotten a PGA Tour card, lasting 20 years on the PGA Tour. FYI, he is 21st in all time earnings on the PGA Tour. 

It's like the question, is a no-name offensive lineman who played 15 years in the NFL good. I think the answer is hell yea he is a good football player. He played in a league that very few get to play, he did so for 15 years, and he had a career that was 5x longer than what an average OL usually has. 

I think a bit of baseline perspective is warranted here. 

 

[Shindig]

1 hour ago, turtleback said:

But here's the thing.  He's been on tour for more than twenty years, and by Tour standards has been a pretty mediocre player.  In more than 20 years he has amassed the grand total of three Tour victories.  He never even sniffed a major win, having exactly one top ten in a major.  He also had one top ten in a Players.  In over 20 years.  Yet this mediocre performance has allowed him to accumulate $43 million in winnings.  So just how terrible has the Tour been to him?  It gave him a lifestyle in the top .0001% of people on Earth.  But when he should be falling on his knees in gratitude for what the Tour has done for him in providing him with that lifestyle, he stabs it in the back.  For money.  Because being in the top .0001% isn't good enough.  Because he has to feed his family, donchyaknow.

Obviously he needed a vacation from all that golf  

54 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

It's like the question, is a no-name offensive lineman who played 15 years in the NFL good. I think the answer is hell yea he is a good football player. He played in a league that very few get to play, he did so for 15 years, and he had a career that was 5x longer than what an average OL usually has. 

Yes, but how often are you happy when you hear the name of one of your team's offensive linemen during a game?  Now I can't remember what point I wanted to make.  Was it that I think tournament professionals should want their name to be called on TV? 

[iacas]

@saevel25 said it pretty well, but to add to it for me…

1 hour ago, turtleback said:

But here's the thing.  He's been on tour for more than twenty years, and by Tour standards has been a pretty mediocre player.

Mediocre is defined as "Of ordinary or undistinguished quality." or "of a middle quality."

CHIII is not that.

The average or "middle quality" Tour player does not earn $43M. They don't keep their Tour card for 20 years. They don't win three times.

Sorry, Tour players disagree vehemently with you. CHIII is, I'll say again, super widely respected for what he's done on the PGA Tour.

1 hour ago, turtleback said:

So just how terrible has the Tour been to him?

I don't know why you quoted me. I didn't say anything like that.

1 hour ago, turtleback said:

But when he should be falling on his knees in gratitude for what the Tour has done for him in providing him with that lifestyle, he stabs it in the back.

Yeah, I'm not a LIV fan of any type, but that's too much. He doesn't "owe" the PGA Tour anything. That's the deal he signed up for, and he lived up to his end, and the Tour lived up to their end.

If the Tour was funded by Michael Jordan and Tiger Woods, few would have a problem with him "stabbing the PGA Tour in the back" to switch the the MJTW Tour.

[nevets88]

David Feherty making the jump, now official.

Photos: David Feherty joining LIV Golf, scenes throughout the years

---

LIV Golf announced Friday that David Feherty, longtime NBC Sports and Golf Channel analyst and TV host, is its newest broadcaster.

 

[Aguirre]

On 7/21/2022 at 11:31 PM, Vinsk said:

It wouldn’t be difficult to just have a clause in the contract stating that the ‘sign on’ bonus will be paid back on a ‘time served’ pro rate if the player leaves prior to their ‘3 year’ commitment right?

Yes, but injury and personal issues. How do you account for that as a skipped event if you're LIV?

[Shindig]

9 hours ago, Aguirre said:

Yes, but injury and personal issues. How do you account for that as a skipped event if you're LIV?

They might send them out to play anyway with a quote taken from a Rocky movie. 

[Vinsk]

9 hours ago, Aguirre said:

Yes, but injury and personal issues. How do you account for that as a skipped event if you're LIV?

Every corporation deals with this with their employees. But I guess it is different with golf. Missing a day of work unexpectedly is a bit different from missing a tournament. But I would think something similar could be created regarding personal/injury issues as they are in other sports.

[Shindig]

6 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

Every corporation deals with this with their employees. But I guess it is different with golf. Missing a day of work unexpectedly is a bit different from missing a tournament. But I would think something similar could be created regarding personal/injury issues as they are in other sports.

I wonder what they'll do if one of their players wants to spend even more time with their family. 

[imsys0042]

3 hours ago, Shindig said:

I wonder what they'll do if one of their players wants to spend even more time with their family. 

Added to that, what happens if there is a conflict between a tournament and one of Pat Perez’s grandkids being born?   Maybe Putin will start a golf tour for him to run complaining to. 

[iacas]

28 minutes ago, imsys0042 said:

Added to that, what happens if there is a conflict between a tournament and one of Pat Perez’s grandkids being born?   Maybe Putin will start a golf tour for him to run complaining to. 

Grandkid? It was his kid he was talking about. He’s not going to be on LIV for a grandkid.

[Friz]

5 hours ago, Shindig said:

I wonder what they'll do if one of their players wants to spend even more time with their family. 

It's so sad how fake this argument ever was in the first place.

LIV Players: "The PGA Tour made me play in too many events."

Also LIV Players: "In addition to our LIV events we need to fight to be able to play in DP World Tour events, also let's play Asian Tour events to keep our OWGR up so we can also continue playing in the majors"

[imsys0042]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

Grandkid? It was his kid he was talking about. He’s not going to be on LIV for a grandkid.

Yeah….I was just poking fun.   I think that whole story of his was utter bollocks.  

[turtleback]

22 hours ago, iacas said:

@saevel25 said it pretty well, but to add to it for me…

Mediocre is defined as "Of ordinary or undistinguished quality." or "of a middle quality."

CHIII is not that.

The average or "middle quality" Tour player does not earn $43M. They don't keep their Tour card for 20 years. They don't win three times.

Sorry, Tour players disagree vehemently with you. CHIII is, I'll say again, super widely respected for what he's done on the PGA Tour.

 

The only aspect of his career that is not mediocre is his longevity.  In money list terms, over 20+ years he was in the top 25 only 4 times, while he was outside the top 50 8 times.  Good enough to keep his card, but hardly the stuff of stars.  Not only did he have only one top ten in a major he has a very poor record in both the Players and the WGC events, so he has been pretty lousy in premium events.  In 9 of his 20+ years he wasn't even ranked in the top 100 in the OWGR.  Other than his first 3 years he's only been in the top 50 on the OWGR once.  He's been around a long time mostly as a third tier player, occassionally sniffing the second tier.  Never made a Ryder Cup team, made 2 Pres. cup team's.  That all adds up to mediocre, relative to the standards of the Tour, in my book.  Except for his longevity.

And that the 'super widely respected' label is meaningless to me.  I put more stock in analyzing his record.  Heck, I'd bet half of those players with all this respect for his accomplishments still think Jack is the GOAT.  Howell comes across as a super nice guy and I'm sure that colors their thinking.  I'm sure he is highly and widely respected' as a person, but by the standards of the Tour he was meh, but for a very long time.

The details are here, for all to see:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Howell_III

[iacas]

3 hours ago, turtleback said:

The only aspect of his career that is not mediocre is his longevity.

Right, so… lasting that long puts him well above "mediocre." Plenty of guys have Tour status for 1-3 or even six or seven years. Very few make a living and don't lose their Tour status for a few decades.

3 hours ago, turtleback said:

Good enough to keep his card, but hardly the stuff of stars.

Big gap between "stars" and "mediocre." And I know mediocre doesn't mean "bad."

3 hours ago, turtleback said:

And that the 'super widely respected' label is meaningless to me.

Just sharing. Their perspective is different than yours, and in many ways more relevant, because it's afforded him a nice lifestyle while still not burdening him with recognition, etc.

He's had a very solid career that's the envy of tens of thousands of other professional golfers.