General COVID-19 Topic

[Braivo]

27 minutes ago, CarlSpackler said:

If my kids were still in school, I would have decided the same thing. I predict chaos in the schools, and I imagine you can change your mind once things settle down.

Yes. They required us to commit to 9 weeks of virtual if we chose that option. We can change our mind after 9 weeks. That should be enough time for them to iron out some of the protocols and get a better idea of what this virus is gonna do in the cooler weather. 

[CarlSpackler]

27 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

"Unfortunately, I think this is just the beginning of the cases we will see from Sturgis," said Kris Ehresmann, the director of infectious diseases at the Minnesota Department of Health. 

Maybe the other motorcycle boot has not yet dropped???  Though I hope it doesn't and then we can look closer at the rally and learn what went right.

With regard to the students, youth being youth, and feeling immortal even in the face of this pandemic, I could see them back in their dorm rooms and in off-campus housing, talking freely, face-to-face, doing all the things they did last year.  Here in WA state one of the universities has a high Covid rate which they are claiming is from students partying in off campus housing leading up to the school year.  Sans masks, sans social distancing.

The rally started before the students moved back to school, so we would already be seeing a outbreak in the biker communities where we are just starting to see the ramp up at the college. Many bikers go a week early to see the sights and avoid the BIG crowds. Bear in mind that hardly anyone was wearing a mask at Sturgis. As far as UD goes, my son's girlfriend's sister is a freshman there and said the everyone is very diligent about wearing masks because some people have already been suspended for not doing so. It doesn't make sense based on what they are saying about mask wearing.

[Antneye]

42 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

"Unfortunately, I think this is just the beginning of the cases we will see from Sturgis," said Kris Ehresmann, the director of infectious diseases at the Minnesota Department of Health. 

Maybe the other motorcycle boot has not yet dropped???  Though I hope it doesn't and then we can look closer at the rally and learn what went right.

With regard to the students, youth being youth, and feeling immortal even in the face of this pandemic, I could see them back in their dorm rooms and in off-campus housing, talking freely, face-to-face, doing all the things they did last year.  Here in WA state one of the universities has a high Covid rate which they are claiming is from students partying in off campus housing leading up to the school year.  Sans masks, sans social distancing.

I can't believe that anyone expected anything different from college kids. It's the same thing here in NC. A lot of the college's are already going remote and sending kids home. I don't see how we avoid a massive second wave at this point. Dispersing this population back into their local communities is the worst idea at this point. Keep them contained at the campuses. 

[Double Mocha Man]

44 minutes ago, CarlSpackler said:

As far as UD goes, my son's girlfriend's sister is a freshman there and said the everyone is very diligent about wearing masks because some people have already been suspended for not doing so. It doesn't make sense based on what they are saying about mask wearing.

Just an aside.  Boy, that is the wrong reason for wearing a mask... because you might be suspended!  Students should know the reason for wearing a mask is to protect others from potential infection.  I was a college student... somewhat responsible, wonder what I would do today regarding the virus...

Edited August 25, 2020 by Double Mocha Man

[CarlSpackler]

•  

8 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

Just an aside.  Boy, that is the wrong reason for wearing a mask... because you might be suspended!  Students should know the reason for wearing a mask is to protect others from potential infection.  I was a college student... somewhat responsible, wonder what I would do today regarding the virus...

I'm still of the opinion that masks are causing this to spread more because people can't stop touching their face and generally do not wear masks correctly. They were interviewing a girl on the news from UD, and sure enough, she was constantly touching her mask. Every time you touch your mask, you are picking up a concentration of the virus on your hands, that is if you are infected of course. If you don't wash your hands immediately after and every time you touch your mask, you are spreading it.

Edited August 25, 2020 by CarlSpackler
grammer

[mcanadiens]

4 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

Just an aside.  Boy, that is the wrong reason for wearing a mask... because you might be suspended!  Students should know the reason for wearing a mask is to protect others from potential infection.  I was a college student... somewhat responsible, wonder what I would do today regarding the virus...

I'm not going to dump on the kids too much. I see plenty of older people playing fast and lose with our "mask mandate".

Hate to stereotype, but it really is sort of a function of what part of town I'm in. People are generally masked up in the wealthier or more urban parts of town. When you get into the sticks the percentages drop like a rock. One convenience store I tend to stop in Troy has roughly 10% of customers wearing them. One cashier never wears one and the other two regular cashiers usually wear them around their neck.

Percentages go way up in the restaurants because that's where they enforce things.

[Double Mocha Man]

4 minutes ago, CarlSpackler said:

•  

I'm still of the opinion that masks are causing this to spread more because people can't stop touching their face and generally do not wear masks correctly. They were interviewing a girl on the news from UD, and sure enough, she was constantly touching her mask. Every time you touch your mask, you are picking up a concentration of the virus on your hands, that is if you are infected of course. If you don't wash your hands immediately after and every time you touch your mask, you are spreading it.

 

I don't know.  I think I'd still rather talk to someone wearing a mask than not wearing a mask.  Are you saying the virus on the mask from touching it will be projected forward?  I read somewhere that you should try blowing out a candle wearing a mask vs. not wearing a mask.

8 minutes ago, mcanadiens said:

Hate to stereotype, but it really is sort of a function of what part of town I'm in. People are generally masked up in the wealthier or more urban parts of town. When you get into the sticks the percentages drop like a rock. One convenience store I tend to stop in Troy has roughly 10% of customers wearing them. One cashier never wears one and the other two regular cashiers usually wear them around their neck.

I believe you... and there might be a correlation (not 1 to 1, mind you) with education levels.  Belief in science vs. belief in "How I feel today".  Maybe Governor DeWine should make it mandatory for stores to post a sign at the front door, such as:  "4 shoppers from this store, who didn't wear a mask, have died in the last three months."  If that is actually the case... and your contract tracing is good.

[mcanadiens]

8 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

I believe you... and there might be a correlation (not 1 to 1, mind you) with education levels.  Belief in science vs. belief in "How I feel today".  Maybe Governor DeWine should make it mandatory for stores to post a sign at the front door, such as:  "4 shoppers from this store, who didn't wear a mask, have died in the last three months."  If that is actually the case... and your contract tracing is good.

The contact tracing is definitely not that good.

Most places, including the place I was referring to, do have signs on the doors saying a mask is required. But, unlike the restaurants, the employees aren't going to fight you if you don't. Enforcement on the restaurants is about all they got the resources for.

 

[CarlSpackler]

32 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

I don't know.  I think I'd still rather talk to someone wearing a mask than not wearing a mask.  Are you saying the virus on the mask from touching it will be projected forward?  I read somewhere that you should try blowing out a candle wearing a mask vs. not wearing a mask.

I am saying that people touch their mask and then touch other things. Think of the person wrapping up the silverware in a napkin at a restaurant. Think of the server touching your plate or the glass you are going to drink from. They're constantly adjusting their masks and then touching things you are going to put in your mouth. I see value in wearing one if you are having a conversation in close proximity with someone, but only if you put it on and then dispose of it (including the virus particles) after and wash your hands. That is not what is happening. People are wearing them hour hours and hours collecting virus particles.

With that being said, old Carl's solution to stopping the spread is, DON'T DO THAT! Limit the number of people that you talk to. If you have to talk to strangers in person, keep a safe distance and don't yell which will project the particles. Most places where interaction is required like a checkout line have a plexiglass shield in place which will stop this, so no mask is needed. If you are wearing a mask when you are not around other people, all you are doing is collecting virus particles for later redistribution. Without a mask, most will fall harmlessly to the ground. Gravity works on virus particles and spittle too. When outside, they will be carried away on the breeze to land on an infinite number of surfaces where they will do no harm. What about coughing/sneezing you might say. IMO, if people learn to sneeze into their with their arm face pointed downwards, that will direct most of the particles to the floor. That was taught in infectious disease classes way back when. If you sneeze or cough into a mask that has been collecting particles for hours, what happens to those particles? They get projected out into the room. I would guess that there is just as many if not more than just a plain old uncovered sneeze.

These are just my observations for what they are worth.

Adding: @Double Mocha Man I would rather talk to someone without a mask at a comfortable distance than with someone wearing one and constantly touching it with their hands.

[Double Mocha Man]

Geez Carl, you are making me not want to leave my house anymore!  😀

In my readings, of late, I've seen more and more that transmission is pretty unlikely via touch.  It's those damn particles suspended in the air that'll kill ya.  I also read that while outside is much safer than inside, be careful not to sit downwind from someone talking.  I use a windsock (or toss grass in the air) at outdoor restaurants to avoid that... though I don't avoid stares.  J/K with that last sentence.  That would be so Sheldon Cooper-like.

[CarlSpackler]

4 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

Geez Carl, you are making me not want to leave my house anymore!  😀

In my readings, of late, I've seen more and more that transmission is pretty unlikely via touch.  It's those damn particles suspended in the air that'll kill ya.  I also read that while outside is much safer than inside, be careful not to sit downwind from someone talking.  I use a windsock (or toss grass in the air) at outdoor restaurants to avoid that... though I don't avoid stares.  J/K with that last sentence.  That would be so Sheldon Cooper-like.

I hang out with the biker crowd where we have been gathering all summer at bike nights without masks. Most of the employees aren't either. Shhhhh. Bikers naturally keep their distance from other because you don't know if they have a bigger knife. There have been 0 cases at the places we are going. The bar we were at last Friday did get cited for selling beer after 10PM which is the new law, but no Rona in the biker crowds. Perhaps we're just lucky. BTW - we have people power drinking much earlier in the evening and hitting the road between 10 and 11 now.

1 hour ago, mcanadiens said:

The contact tracing is definitely not that good.

It's a joke.

[Double Mocha Man]

😁

[Shindig]

9 hours ago, boogielicious said:

What was the mask material? Do you have a link where you purchased?

The good mask feels a bit like the material in a good golf shirt.   I bought it on Woot;  it was these: 

Breathable Stretch Gaiter Face Mask (2-Pack)

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Breathable Stretch Gaiter Face Mask (2-Pack)

They're listed as sold out now, but that's been that way before.  I bought a few, liked them, went back and they were sold out, checked again later and bought more (some more for me, some for gifts)

 

4 hours ago, CarlSpackler said:

If my kids were still in school, I would have decided the same thing. I predict chaos in the schools, and I imagine you can change your mind once things settle down.

This fall, there will be tons of chaos in the schools, with different types of chaos affecting different age groups and school styles.  And to make matters worse, there's this Covid thing complicating the situation. 

[mcanadiens]

48 minutes ago, CarlSpackler said:

I hang out with the biker crowd where we have been gathering all summer at bike nights without masks. Most of the employees aren't either. Shhhhh. Bikers naturally keep their distance from other because you don't know if they have a bigger knife. There have been 0 cases at the places we are going. The bar we were at last Friday did get cited for selling beer after 10PM which is the new law, but no Rona in the biker crowds. Perhaps we're just lucky. BTW - we have people power drinking much earlier in the evening and hitting the road between 10 and 11 now.

I think we all realize that there isn't a virus that would dare mess around with @CarlSpackler and his biker gang.

Incidentally is this part of the summer riding wardrobe, or whatever you guys call it?

[iacas]

4 hours ago, CarlSpackler said:

If my kids were still in school, I would have decided the same thing. I predict chaos in the schools, and I imagine you can change your mind once things settle down.

I’m hearing from a lot of schools (via my wife) that kids are being good about wearing masks because they want to be in school.

[iacas]

1 hour ago, Shindig said:

Breathable Stretch Gaiter Face Mask (2-Pack)

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Breathable Stretch Gaiter Face Mask (2-Pack)

BTW my wife sent me a study that shows that neck gaiters are actually worse, as they almost aerosolize the droplets, than no mask at all.

Neck Gaiters for COVID-19 Worse Than No Face Covering At All

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Neck gaiters weren’t the only face coverings tested: in all 14 were analyzed, from N95s (unsurprisingly judged to be the most effective in containing COVID-19 spread) to bandanas (not much more effective then neck...

I've stopped wearing mine. I now wear regular masks.

Plus, honestly, the neck gaiters almost went "inside" your mouth when you talked and that bugged me anyway. I did it for two days, and then stopped, and weeks later I'm glad as she sent me that Duke University study.

[mdl]

25 minutes ago, iacas said:

BTW my wife sent me a study that shows that neck gaiters are actually worse, as they almost aerosolize the droplets, than no mask at all.

Neck Gaiters for COVID-19 Worse Than No Face Covering At All

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Neck gaiters weren’t the only face coverings tested: in all 14 were analyzed, from N95s (unsurprisingly judged to be the most effective in containing...

I've stopped wearing mine. I now wear regular masks.

Plus, honestly, the neck gaiters almost went "inside" your mouth when you talked and that bugged me anyway. I did it for two days, and then stopped, and weeks later I'm glad as she sent me that Duke University study.

My take away from that study was that it was the fleece material that aerosolized the droplets, not necessarily the gator design? Thought anything elasticized is also more or less worthless, as it'll stretch out over your mouth and the holes will be enormous relative to the droplets we care about.

[iacas]

9 minutes ago, mdl said:

My take away from that study was that it was the fleece material that aerosolized the droplets, not necessarily the gator design? Thought anything elasticized is also more or less worthless, as it'll stretch out over your mouth and the holes will be enormous relative to the droplets we care about.

Yes, it's not the design. If you wore a thick turtleneck, you'd probably be fine. But most of the gaiters are made of that stretchy, thinner material.