Jump to content
Check out the Spin Axis Podcast! ×
IGNORED

Way too good to be true, what am I missing?


Note: This thread is 2010 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

Recommended Posts

Posted

Hey all,

The coronavirus got me back into golf after a long break. I've been playing nine holes almost every evening since May.

I mostly play alone, so I have been using my handicap from when I last played and I've been keeping strict score.

I just entered my last 20 rounds into a World Handicap System calculator and it's saying my index is 11.7, which is way better than I ever was before. Have I made a mistake somewhere? Would love an extra set of eyes or two on this.


Two free calculators for computing a golf player's course handicap and the player's World Handicap System (WHS) handicap index based on their past scores. In addition, explore hundreds of other calculators addressing...

is the site where I've entered my scores.

Cheers.

 


Posted

@DaveP043.....

:ping: G25 Driver Stiff :ping: G20 3W, 5W :ping: S55 4-W (aerotech steel fiber 110g shafts) :ping: Tour Wedges 50*, 54*, 58* :nike: Method Putter Floating clubs: :edel: 54* trapper wedge

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Moderator
Posted

It looks to me that the website you're using is treating your 9-hole scores as 18s, and averaging the best 8 differentials.  You might try it by manually adding the scores to make nine 18-hole totals and see what you come up with.

Dave

:callaway: Rogue SubZero Driver

:titleist: 915F 15 Fairway, 816 H1 19 Hybrid, AP2 4 iron to PW, Vokey 52, 56, and 60 wedges, ProV1 balls 
:ping: G5i putter, B60 version
 :ping:Hoofer Bag, complete with Newport Cup logo
:footjoy::true_linkswear:, and Ashworth shoes

the only thing wrong with this car is the nut behind the wheel.

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted (edited)

Yeah my 9 hole caps, if extrapolated to 18, would result in a much lower cap. I can shoot low (for me) 9 hole rounds, but it's much harder to string them together for 18.

Edited by colin007
  • Like 1

Colin P.

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted

Something similar happened to me two years ago. I played frequent 9 hole rounds after work in summer, and was scoring between 40-45. When I played 18, I was regularly shooting in the 90-100 range. Over that summer, I think my handicap dropped from around 23 to 18. Once winter came around and I didn't have daylight after work to play, my handicap slowly returned to the low 20s.

-Peter

  • :titleist: TSR2
  • :callaway: Paradym, 4W
  • :pxg: GEN4 0317X, Hybrid
  • :srixon: ZX 3-iron, ZX5 4-AW
  • :cleveland:  RTX Zipcore 54 & 58
  • L.A.B. Golf Directed Force 2.1
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted

I use that website to track my handicap.  (It does not account for playing conditions or ESC) But beyond that, I analyzed it up and down and independently checked with a phone app in early 2019.  It is accurate as far as I can tell.  But I never play 9 holes.  I recommend taking Dave’s idea.

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted
7 hours ago, finitesoup said:

Have I made a mistake somewhere?

No Mistake, here is your link showing the Average Differential.
Basically, I see the rating and slope being very low.
Is this an Executive Course ?  Also, what is Par for the Nine holes you are playing.
If you play an 18 hole course, the rating is different for the front and back.
And, I'm not sure if the new software "Combines 9 hole Scores anymore" It used to.  

Hdcp Avg.PNG

As an example, I changed the Rating and Slope to a more difficult rated course, which shows a Diff "7" on a score of 44.

Hdcp Avg 1a.PNG

Johnny Rocket - Let's Rock and Roll and play some golf !!!

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Moderator
Posted
16 minutes ago, Club Rat said:

No Mistake, here is your link showing the Average Differential.
Basically, I see the rating and slope being very low.
Is this an Executive Course ?  Also, what is Par for the Nine holes you are playing.
If you play an 18 hole course, the rating is different for the front and back.
And, I'm not sure if the new software "Combines 9 hole Scores anymore" It used to.  

I took this to be a moderately easy 9-hole course, and the scores were each for 9 holes.  The resulting handicap is for 9 holes.  Double the number, and you'd get 23.4 for 18.  The new USGA systems (GHIN or any other) do combine 9-hole scores in the order in which they are played, but I'm not sure that online calculator recognizes them as 9-hole scores.

  • Like 1

Dave

:callaway: Rogue SubZero Driver

:titleist: 915F 15 Fairway, 816 H1 19 Hybrid, AP2 4 iron to PW, Vokey 52, 56, and 60 wedges, ProV1 balls 
:ping: G5i putter, B60 version
 :ping:Hoofer Bag, complete with Newport Cup logo
:footjoy::true_linkswear:, and Ashworth shoes

the only thing wrong with this car is the nut behind the wheel.

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted
51 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

but I'm not sure that online calculator recognizes them as 9-hole scores.

Interesting, Never even crossed my mind it would calculate an index for only 9 holes.

I'll go into the calculator and enter either combined scores or several 18 hole scores similar to his scores and check the outcome.
Guess I could copy his scores to another calculator and see if it come up with the similar results.

Johnny Rocket - Let's Rock and Roll and play some golf !!!

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Moderator
Posted
1 hour ago, Club Rat said:

No Mistake, here is your link showing the Average Differential.
Basically, I see the rating and slope being very low.
Is this an Executive Course ?  Also, what is Par for the Nine holes you are playing.
If you play an 18 hole course, the rating is different for the front and back.
And, I'm not sure if the new software "Combines 9 hole Scores anymore" It used to.  

Hdcp Avg.PNG

As an example, I changed the Rating and Slope to a more difficult rated course, which shows a Diff "7" on a score of 44.

Hdcp Avg 1a.PNG

I think you've misunderstood the OP. @finitesoup is wondering why his handicap is so low, and the reason is because it's a 9-hole handicap calculation.

9 hours ago, finitesoup said:

Hey all,

The coronavirus got me back into golf after a long break. I've been playing nine holes almost every evening since May.

I mostly play alone, so I have been using my handicap from when I last played and I've been keeping strict score.

I just entered my last 20 rounds into a World Handicap System calculator and it's saying my index is 11.7, which is way better than I ever was before. Have I made a mistake somewhere? Would love an extra set of eyes or two on this.


Two free calculators for computing a golf player's course handicap and the player's World Handicap System (WHS) handicap index based on their past scores. In addition, explore hundreds of other calculators addressing...

is the site where I've entered my scores.

Cheers.

 

This handicap calculator is bad. Or out of date. I combined your 9-hole rounds into 18-hole rounds and used it to calculate your index, which gave me 27.8... but that's because it's using the average of the lowest 8 differentials, which is incorrect. There are 10 18-hole differentials, which means your index is calculated based on the average of the lowest 3 differentials, which is 24.4.

  • Like 2
  • Thumbs Up 1
  • Informative 1

Bill

“By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest.” - Confucius

My Swing Thread

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted (edited)

His average round for 9 holes is 48.  Par is 36.  So, he is averaging +12.

If you take the 10 best of his last 20, average round is 45, which is +9.

+11 handicap seems right in the correct range.

Not seeing what the issue is, and it's certainly not anywhere near 100% off 

Edited by Used2PlayALot

  • Moderator
Posted
13 minutes ago, Used2PlayALot said:

His average round for 9 holes is 48.  Par is 36.  So, he is averaging +12.

If you take the 10 best of his last 20, average round is 45, which is +9.

+11 handicap seems right in the correct range.

Not seeing what the issue is, and it's certainly not anywhere near 100% off 

That's not how to calculate a handicap index.

Bill

“By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest.” - Confucius

My Swing Thread

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted
5 hours ago, Club Rat said:

Basically, I see the rating and slope being very low.
Is this an Executive Course ?  Also, what is Par for the Nine holes you are playing.

It is the shorter/easier 9 hole course at our club. Not sure if it would be considered an Executive Course as it does have a par 5 and 4 par 4s. Par is 33. I was actually wondering why the calculator didn't ask for par as in my understanding it's necessary for the new WHS.


Posted

@finitesoup  here is another site to try - https://www.free-online-calculator-use.com/golf-handicap-calculator.html

Keep in mind you will need to make any necessary adjustment to scores over "Net - Double Bogey" when entering total scores.
Below I enter your scores and here is the result. Note scores were combined in the calculation.

Hdcp Avg 1c.PNG

Also, when playing at a nine hole course, you receive half of you Index for a course handicap.
I'm guessing in your OP, you thought the Index was an 18 hole Index? 

20 hours ago, finitesoup said:

it's saying my index is 11.7

 

Johnny Rocket - Let's Rock and Roll and play some golf !!!

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted
1 hour ago, Club Rat said:

@finitesoup  here is another site to try - https://www.free-online-calculator-use.com/golf-handicap-calculator.html

Keep in mind you will need to make any necessary adjustment to scores over "Net - Double Bogey" when entering total scores.
Below I enter your scores and here is the result. Note scores were combined in the calculation.

Hdcp Avg 1c.PNG

Also, when playing at a nine hole course, you receive half of you Index for a course handicap.
I'm guessing in your OP, you thought the Index was an 18 hole Index? 

 

I did think it was an 18 hole index, makes much more sense that it's for 9 holes.

Thanks everyone for helping me figure it out.

  • Like 1

  • Moderator
Posted
8 hours ago, finitesoup said:

I was actually wondering why the calculator didn't ask for par as in my understanding it's necessary for the new WHS.

The calculator you used was for calculating your handicap index. Par is only needed for calculating your course handicap.

  • Like 1

Bill

“By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest.” - Confucius

My Swing Thread

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted

His average round for 9 holes is 48.  Par is 33.  So, he is averaging +15.
If you take the 10 best of his last 20, average round is 45, which is +12.
If you double that for 18 holes, he is around +24
 


  • Moderator
Posted
9 minutes ago, Used2PlayALot said:

His average round for 9 holes is 48.  Par is 33.  So, he is averaging +15.
If you take the 10 best of his last 20, average round is 45, which is +12.
If you double that for 18 holes, he is around +24
 

Remember, under the current rules, we only use the best 8 of the last 20.  And we use Differentials, the raw score times 113/Slope.  But yeah, its somewhere around 24.

Dave

:callaway: Rogue SubZero Driver

:titleist: 915F 15 Fairway, 816 H1 19 Hybrid, AP2 4 iron to PW, Vokey 52, 56, and 60 wedges, ProV1 balls 
:ping: G5i putter, B60 version
 :ping:Hoofer Bag, complete with Newport Cup logo
:footjoy::true_linkswear:, and Ashworth shoes

the only thing wrong with this car is the nut behind the wheel.

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Note: This thread is 2010 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Want to join this community?

    We'd love to have you!

    Sign Up
  • TST Partners

    PlayBetter
    Golfer's Journal
    ShotScope
    The Stack System
    FitForGolf
    FlightScope Mevo
    Direct: Mevo, Mevo+, and Pro Package.

    Coupon Codes (save 10-20%): "IACAS" for Mevo/Stack/FitForGolf, "IACASPLUS" for Mevo+/Pro Package, and "THESANDTRAP" for ShotScope. 15% off TourStriker (no code).
  • Posts

    • Please see this topic for updated information:
    • Please see this topic for updated information:
    • When you've been teaching golf as long as I have, you're going to find that you can teach some things better than you previously had, and you're probably going to find some things that you taught incorrectly. I don't see that as a bad thing — what would be worse is refusing to adapt and grow given new information. I've always said that my goal with my instruction isn't to be right, but it's to get things right. To that end, I'm about five years late in issuing a public proclamation on something… When I first got my GEARS system, I immediately looked at the golf swings of the dozens and dozens of Tour players for which I suddenly had full 3D data. I created a huge spreadsheet showing how their bodies moved, how the club moved, at various points in the swing. I mapped knee and elbow angles, hand speeds, shoulder turns and pelvis turns… etc. I re-considered what I thought I knew about the golf swing as performed by the best players. One of those things dated back to the earliest days: that you extend (I never taught "straighten" and would avoid using that word unless in the context of saying "don't fully straighten") the trail knee/leg in the backswing. I was mislead by 2D photos from less-than-ideal camera angles — the trail leg rotates a bit during the backswing, and so when observing trail knee flex should also use a camera that moves to stay perpendicular to the plane of the ankle/knee/hip joint. We have at least two topics here on this (here and here; both of which I'll be updating after publishing this) where @mvmac and I advise golfers to extend the trail knee. Learning that this was not right is one of the reasons I'm glad to have a 3D system, as most golfers generally preserve the trail knee flex throughout the backswing. Data Here's a video showing an iron and a driver of someone who has won the career slam: Here's what the graph of his right knee flex looks like. The solid lines I've positioned at the top of the backswing (GEARS aligns both swings at impact, the dashed line). Address is to the right, of course, and the graph shows knee flex from the two swings above. The data (17.56° and 23.20°) shows where this player is in both swings (orange being the yellow iron swing, pink the blue driver swing). You can see that this golfer extends his trail knee 2-3°… before bending it even more than that through the late backswing and early downswing. Months ago I created a quick Instagram video showing the trail knee flex in the backswing of several players (see the top for the larger number): Erik J. Barzeski (@iacas) • Instagram reel GEARS shares expert advice on golf swing technique, focusing on the critical backswing phase. Tour winners and major champions reveal the key to a precise and powerful swing, highlighting the importance of... Here are a few more graphs. Two LIV players and major champions: Two PGA Tour winners: Two women's #1 ranked players: Two more PGA Tour winners (one a major champ): Two former #1s, the left one being a woman, the right a man, with a driver: Two more PGA Tour players: You'll notice a trend: they almost all maintain roughly the same flex throughout their backswing and downswing. The Issues with Extending the Trail Knee You can play good golf extending (again, not "straightening") the trail knee. Some Tour players do. But, as with many things, if 95 out of 100 Tour players do it, you're most likely better off doing similarly to what they do. So, what are the issues with extending the trail knee in the backswing? To list a few: Pelvic Depth and Rotation Quality Suffers When the trail knee extends, the trail leg often acts like an axle on the backswing, with the pelvis rotating around the leg and the trail hip joint. This prevents the trail side from gaining depth, as is needed to keep the pelvis center from thrusting toward the ball. Most of the "early extension" (thrust) that I see occurs during the backswing. Encourages Early Extension (Thrust) Patterns When you've thrust and turned around the trail hip joint in the backswing, you often thrust a bit more in the downswing as the direction your pelvis is oriented is forward and "out" (to the right for a righty). Your trail leg can abduct to push you forward, but "forward" when your pelvis is turned like that is in the "thrust" direction. Additionally, the trail knee "breaking" again at the start of the downswing often jumps the trail hip out toward the ball a bit too much or too quickly. While the trail hip does move in that direction, if it's too fast or too much, it can prevent the lead side hip from getting "back" at the right rate, or at a rate commensurate with the trail hip to keep the pelvis center from thrusting. Disrupts the Pressure Shift/Transition When the trail leg extends too much, it often can't "push" forward normally. The forward push begins much earlier than forward motion begins — pushing forward begins as early as about P1.5 to P2 in the swings of most good golfers. It can push forward by abducting, again, but that's a weaker movement that shoves the pelvis forward (toward the target) and turns it more than it generally should (see the next point). Limits Internal Rotation of the Trail Hip Internal rotation of the trail hip is a sort of "limiter" on the backswing. I have seen many golfers on GEARS whose trail knee extends, whose pelvis shifts forward (toward the target), and who turn over 50°, 60°, and rarely but not never, over 70° in the backswing. If you turn 60° in the backswing, it's going to be almost impossible to get "open enough" in the downswing to arrive at a good impact position. Swaying/Lateral Motion Occasionally a golfer who extends the trail knee too much will shift back too far, but more often the issue is that the golfer will shift forward too early in the backswing (sometimes even immediately to begin the backswing), leaving them "stuck forward" to begin the downswing. They'll push forward, stop, and have to restart around P4, disrupting the smooth sequence often seen in the game's best players. Other Bits… Reduces ground reaction force potential, compromises spine inclination and posture, makes transition sequencing harder, increases stress on the trail knee and lower back… In short… It's not athletic. We don't do many athletic things with "straight" or very extended legs (unless it's the end of the action, like a jump or a big push off like a step in a running motion).
    • Day 135 12-25 Wide backswing to wide downswing drill. Recorder and used mirror. 
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Welcome to TST! Signing up is free, and you'll see fewer ads and can talk with fellow golf enthusiasts! By using TST, you agree to our Terms of Use, our Privacy Policy, and our Guidelines.