2021 (2020) Ryder Cup

[Colins69]

2 hours ago, iacas said:

 And in France, the course setup was crazy. 

Really to quote Jack, saying the course doesn't suit your game well Hello your game needs to suit all different course setups...

[Vinsk]

2 minutes ago, Colins69 said:

Really to quote Jack, saying the course doesn't suit your game well Hello your game needs to suit all different course setups...

These guys play a game of which Jack is not familiar.

[klineka]

1 minute ago, Colins69 said:

Really to quote Jack, saying the course doesn't suit your game well Hello your game needs to suit all different course setups...

There's levels to this stuff dude. 

I don't think you realize how few PGA tour golfers have the game that suits all course setups. 

[Chris223]

12 hours ago, DeadMan said:

  

The US team might get worse, too. This was the best US team ever assembled. Just over a decade ago at the 2010 Ryder Cup, the US was taking a 21-year old Rickie Fowler, a 37-year old Stewart Cink, and Jeff Overton. Scheffler was the lowest ranked US player this time, with a world ranking of 21. The 2010 team had 4 players ranked worse than that. It's pretty incredible how good the 2021 team is in comparison to that. It may just be a fluke thing for the US to have such a strong team. 

Also, what if Patrick Reed automatically qualifies in 2023? That could be a bad thing, given how much baggage Reed brings to the team.

the baggage of winning Ryder Cup matches?  lol.

[iacas]

7 hours ago, Colins69 said:

Really to quote Jack, saying the course doesn't suit your game well Hello your game needs to suit all different course setups...

Bad take after bad take. You’re on a roll.

[jmanbooyaa]

Isn’t one of the purposes of picking a Ryder Cup captain so far out to start strategically tweaking the course to the home teams advantage? Obviously as best they can with what is already there. In France that course was set up to deter the US team from bombing it. In Wisconsin it was set up with no real rough and allowed team USA to fire away. 

[Bucks]

26 minutes ago, jmanbooyaa said:

Isn’t one of the purposes of picking a Ryder Cup captain so far out to start strategically tweaking the course to the home teams advantage? Obviously as best they can with what is already there. In France that course was set up to deter the US team from bombing it. In Wisconsin it was set up with no real rough and allowed team USA to fire away. 

No rough? We were obviously looking at different courses. The valleys, creeks, bunkers long penal grass and Juniper bushes provided more than enough trouble from my pov. 

Pretty difficult to set up a course to favor one team vs another IMHO. These guys play a lot of the same events thru out the year, and on some pretty difficult tracks. 

[jmanbooyaa]

There was no rough. Those things you mentioned are part of the course design. Rough can be grown or trimmed to ones liking. 

[boogielicious]

15 minutes ago, Bucks said:

No rough? We were obviously looking at different courses. The valleys, creeks, bunkers long penal grass and Juniper bushes provided more than enough trouble from my pov. 

Pretty difficult to set up a course to favor one team vs another IMHO. These guys play a lot of the same events thru out the year, and on some pretty difficult tracks. 

The primary rough was pretty short though. On 18, where a lot of players missed right off the tee, it was short. I agree the long grass was nasty.

[ScouseJohnny]

10 hours ago, Colins69 said:

Really to quote Jack, saying the course doesn't suit your game well Hello your game needs to suit all different course setups...

Words are precision instruments....and misquoting blunts them.

“I see players come to a tournament and say: ‘Oh, this golf course doesn’t fit my game.’ Hello! The golf course isn’t supposed to fit your game, you’re supposed to fit your game to the golf course. You always have to fit your game to the golf course, so that’s the fun of it, learning how to do that.” J. Nicklaus

That has quite a different meaning to "your game needs to suit all different course setups."

Edited September 28, 2021 by ScouseJohnny

[Bucks]

5 hours ago, jmanbooyaa said:

There was no rough. Those things you mentioned are part of the course design. Rough can be grown or trimmed to ones liking. 

And the course design itself didn't require special cutting heights. It was in itself penal enough. Jesus H., why can't folks just enjoy what's in front of them without the endless, boring, nonsensical and self indulgent criticizem of a great course? 

[boogielicious]

7 minutes ago, Bucks said:

And the course design itself didn't require special cutting heights. It was in itself penal enough. Jesus H., why can't folks just enjoy what's in front of them without the endless, boring, nonsensical and self indulgent criticizem of a great course? 

We’re not criticizing the course. It looked fantastic. I think folks were pointing out the course setup was different than other Ryder Cup venues. This one had wind as a defense and a ton of sand. Others use thick rough as a defense like US Open setups.

[Yossarian]

On 9/27/2021 at 9:26 AM, DeadMan said:

. Rome might be different, because Italians don't really care that much of about golf.

Hey, I am Italian and I care!

There are a couple of issues with Rome. One is the course. At the moment it is a rather bland and uninspired course. There were probably better places in Italy itself and for sure in continental Europe to host the competition. The owners managed to get an insane amount of government money to get it in better shape; I hope they know what they are doing.

As far as the fans, it depends: most of them will come from UK, what matters is if the organizers will start giving away a lot of free tickets to their Roman friends, friends of friends, etc. You may end up with a good number of "golf illiterate" people who don't know the proper behavior

[chspeed]

20 hours ago, Bonvivant said:

This x1000. I don't think Rory will ever play like he used to, and in 2 years he could be in Fowler territory. I know RF was never at that high of a peak, but Rory's current trajectory looks bleak to me.

Um, what? He just finished 14th in Fedex Cup points, has generally excellent ball striking stats (similar to when he was winning), and is still among the best drivers in the world. If he can figure out his putting and short game, he could easily win any tournament he plays.

[iacas]

32 minutes ago, chspeed said:

Um, what? He just finished 14th in Fedex Cup points, has generally excellent ball striking stats (similar to when he was winning), and is still among the best drivers in the world. If he can figure out his putting and short game, he could easily win any tournament he plays.

Hmmmm, that doesn't really track:

SG:OTT

• 2021: 0.660 (4th)
• 2014: 1.367 (1st)

SG:App

• 2021: 0.403 (35th)
• 2014: 0.602 (4th)

SG:ATG

• 2021: 0.118 (71st)
• 2014: 0.022 (93rd)

SG:P

• 2021: 0.187 (66th)
• 2014: 0.274 (41st)

Scoring/SG:Total:

• 2021: 70.043 (16th)/1.368 (7th)
• 2014: 68.827 (1st)/2.266 (1st)

He's 0.898 strokes worse per round than he was in 2014, and 0.707 of that comes from driving, with another 0.199 coming from his approach shots. What's 0.707 + 0.199? 0.906, which is > 0.898. He's actually gaining 0.305 shots around the green and putting now, when he gained 0.296 in 2014.

So, nah, I think his driving and approach play have tailed off. He can't hit wedges very well, either.

[Darkfrog]

On 9/26/2021 at 1:23 PM, Bucks said:

Why so?

I don't like BDC's hat hat because:

1) My personal fashion sense tells me that to pull off wearing a driver cap, one needs to have a certain "it" factor. I don't think Bryson has it.

2) The hat, which is also the log for BDC's "brand", reminds me of all of the times he has put his foot in his mouth. Like yelling at a camera operator about damaging his brand, arguing with a rules official about fire ants and OB line, slow play, the whole Brooks feud thing, making stupid comments about the vaccine, etc.

3) Even without reasons #1 and #2, I think driver caps aren't a good look.

Seeing him in a regular hat, he just looked like a golfer representing the US, without all the negative things associated with his image/brand.

On 9/26/2021 at 1:23 PM, Bucks said:

He's a man's man, full of testosterone and going balls out. Best golf strategy, probably not. But I love his f***itall and go for it attitude after wavering on him for awhile. He's going to draw a lot of new fans 

I won't comment on his manliness, but I am a huge fan of BDC the golfer. I don't care for his non-golf persona/brand, but I think what he has done with his game is remarkable, and he's backed up his approach with a US Open win, multiple tour wins, and a good performance at the Ryder Cup. I look forward to watching him play every week.

Edited September 28, 2021 by Darkfrog

[klineka]

1 hour ago, chspeed said:

Um, what? He just finished 14th in Fedex Cup points, has generally excellent ball striking stats (similar to when he was winning), and is still among the best drivers in the world. If he can figure out his putting and short game, he could easily win any tournament he plays.

59 minutes ago, iacas said:

Hmmmm, that doesn't really track:

SG:OTT

• 2021: 0.660 (4th)
• 2014: 1.367 (1st)

SG:App

• 2021: 0.403 (35th)
• 2014: 0.602 (4th)

SG:ATG

• 2021: 0.118 (71st)
• 2014: 0.022 (93rd)

SG:P

• 2021: 0.187 (66th)
• 2014: 0.274 (41st)

Scoring/SG:Total:

• 2021: 70.043 (16th)/1.368 (7th)
• 2014: 68.827 (1st)/2.266 (1st)

He's 0.898 strokes worse per round than he was in 2014, and 0.707 of that comes from driving, with another 0.199 coming from his approach shots. What's 0.707 + 0.199? 0.906, which is > 0.898. He's actually gaining 0.305 shots around the green and putting now, when he gained 0.296 in 2014.

So, nah, I think his driving and approach play have tailed off. He can't hit wedges very well, either.

Surely someone who ranked 4th on the PGA is SG:OTT last season has to be considered among the best drivers in the world, right? Even if it is 0.707 worse than he was in 2014, he still was one of the best last season.

Same (to a lesser extent) in regards to his SG:APP. Being ranked 35th and gaining over 1.5 strokes per tournament based on ball striking should, IMO, classify someone as having "generally excellent ball striking stats". Maybe not quite at the same level as he was in 2014, but still good enough to be considered an excellent ball striker IMO.

So yes those two areas did tail off, but he was so good at them to begin with that even now he is still among the best of the best in those areas, are those really the areas that are causing him to not win more often?

He was barely above average ATG in 2014, and he has improved that slightly 2021, and he is putting worse now than 2014, how doesn't it track that he would see more success if his ATG and putting improved (and his OTT and App stayed at 2021 levels)?

[iacas]

12 minutes ago, klineka said:

Surely someone who ranked 4th on the PGA is SG:OTT last season has to be considered among the best drivers in the world, right?

Where did I say he wasn’t?

13 minutes ago, klineka said:

are those really the areas that are causing him to not win more often?

YES!

Just as those are the things that let him win before.