Conceded Putt Blown Into the Hole

[iacas]

Here's a rules question for you all:

Players A and B are in a match against one another. On a par four, A hits a birdie putt that stops several inches from the hole. B concedes A's short remaining par putt and, as A is walking to the hole to get it, but before he's anywhere near the ball (i.e. he doesn't cause it to move), the ball is blown by a gust of wind into the hole.

What is A's score for the hole and why?

I'll hold off voting for awhile so as not to "show" my answer. 😄

[saevel25]

Since the golfer didn't mark the ball yet, then it should be considered holed out with a 3. 

I voted birdie. 

 

[Vinsk]

I voted he makes 3. Player A is allowed 10sec from the time he reasonably arrives at the ball.

[billchao]

Putt was for 3 and 4 was conceded, right? Since the ball hadn’t been marked and lifted, the ball is holed for a 3.

[iacas]

26 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

Player A is allowed 10 sec from the time he reasonably arrives at the ball.

Where does it say that in the Rules?

😉

[Ruler]

Assuming A's ball was at rest and not overhanging when B conceded his next stroke makes the total score of 4. What happens to A's ball after concession makes no difference whatsoever.

[boogielicious]

If this was not match play, the answer would be a birdie 3 because wind is a natural force and you have to play the ball where it stops, Rule 9.3. But what is confounding this is it’s match play and the putt was conceded. But the ball was never marked and lifted, so I think it’s still a 3 though.

[dennyjones]

My guess: because the putt was conceded "in match play" before the ball fell into the hole, it's a 4.  

[Missouri Swede]

13.1d Ball on putting green (without having been lifted and replaced) is moved by a natural force, so the next stroke is played from its new spot = holed. 

3.2b(1): If a concession is made and the ball is holed, the concession does not matter.

[Never3putt]

The ball was still in play.  The putt is deemed as holed and the score would be 3.  Player B's concession of the 4th stroke has no bearing.

[Ruler]

1 minute ago, Never3putt said:

The ball was still in play.  The putt is deemed as holed and the score would be 3.  Player B's concession of the 4th stroke has no bearing.

That cannot be. After a concession the ball in question is no longer in play. If it were the player picking up his ball after a concession would be in breach of 9.4b.

[Missouri Swede]

2 minutes ago, Ruler said:

That cannot be. After a concession the ball in question is no longer in play. If it were the player picking up his ball after a concession would be in breach of 9.4b.

Yes it can, because a concession can be made while the ball is still in motion from the previous stroke (and the concession then doesn't matter if the ball is holed).

If what you wrote is correct, the ball would no longer be in play before it comes to rest from the previous stroke.

[Ruler]

2 minutes ago, Missouri Swede said:

Yes it can, because a concession can be made while the ball is still in motion from the previous stroke (and the concession then doesn't matter if the ball is holed).

If what you wrote is correct, the ball would no longer be in play before it comes to rest from the previous stroke.

You are correct but I was referring to the case at hand where the ball is at rest and that makes all the difference. The point is that there was a next stroke to be expected which is not the case if a ball is moving and makes its way into the hole.

Edited September 11, 2021 by Ruler

[Shorty]

The ball was at rest when the putt was conceded. What happens after the concession is irrelevant.

[Missouri Swede]

16 minutes ago, Ruler said:

You are correct but I was referring to the case at hand where the ball is at rest and that makes all the difference.

I see your point. I don't know what the final interpretation will be.

But the result of A's first putt (without concession) is that it is holed. If the concession prevents this, then the concession is preventing the first putt from coming to this final result.

Whether or not it was at rest, since the ball had not been lifted and replaced, if it is moved by a natural force, the next stroke will be from the "new spot." In this case, the "new spot" is from the hole. So there's no next stroke to be conceded.  At least that's the way I see it. I've been wrong before.

["I've been wrong before.  Thought I made a mistake.  Turns out I didn't."]

Edited September 11, 2021 by Missouri Swede

[StuM]

I vote 3. The ball holed out and per 3.2b says concession applies to the next stroke.  In this case the ball was holed without a next stroke.

[saevel25]

1 hour ago, saevel25 said:

Since the golfer didn't mark the ball yet, then it should be considered holed out with a 3. 

I voted birdie. 

 

Switching my vote. Since the ball was at rest before the wind blew the ball in, and the concession happened before the ball started moving, the concession is final. 

Rule 3.2

Quote

Conceding Next Stroke. This is allowed any time before the opponent’s next stroke is made.
    »    The opponent has then completed the hole with a score that includes that conceded stroke, and the ball may be removed by anyone.
    »    A concession made while the opponent’s ball is still in motion after the previous stroke applies to the opponent’s next stroke, unless the ball is holed (in which case the concession does not matter).
    »    The player may concede the opponent’s next stroke by deflecting or stopping the opponent’s ball in motion only if that is done specifically to concede the next stroke and only when there is no reasonable chance the ball can be holed.

 

[Ruler]

26 minutes ago, Missouri Swede said:

I see your point. I don't know what the final interpretation will be.

But the result of A's first putt (without concession) is that it is holed. If the concession prevents this, then the concession is preventing the first putt from coming to this final result.

Whether or not it was at rest, since the ball had not been lifted and replaced, if it is moved by a natural force, the next stroke will be from the "new spot." In this case, the "new spot" is from the hole. So there's no next stroke to be conceded.  At least that's the way I see it. I've been wrong before.

["I've been wrong before.  Thought I made a mistake.  Turns out I didn't."]

But as the next stroke was conceded it never took place and was counted as one additional stroke, thus 3+1=4.