Playing Tees too Long for Player

[Sandy Lie]

This has always been a hot topic of discussion. We all see players that play from the wrong tees which as we all know can lead to slow play and I’m sure a certain level of embarrassment.  Many times people playing a course for the first time will want to test themselves by playing from the tips.  I encounter this a lot where I play.  Playing #2 at Pinehurst I sort of get it. Some want to see how they compare against top Pro’s or Amateurs.  Some can handle it and play ok, but many cannot. After watching play at the U.S. Open and Amateur and even the North/South I fail to understand the “bigger why”?  Some of our Members do it too! Some play the U.S. Open tees which are closed tees (7,588 yards, 76.5/138) but they find them and off they go.  I’ve had several occasions to play with several Guests that give it a try and it is kind of sad. I’ve tracked a few players and neither shot under 100! 

Yesterday I played #8 with a couple of Guests, they decided to play the Blue Tees at 6,694 yards, 72.3/132.  I play the White tees at 6,311 yards, 70.3/128.  Off we go, 2 bogeys by the Guests, 2 pars by my friend (he’s av2.0) and myself. I forgot to mention one of the Guests mentioned he hasn’t played much lately. Well ok!   I was only the only White tee guy, but decided to go back and play the Blues based only on the distance between their tee shots and mine on the first hole (yardage gap).  So on the 2nd tee I said I’d drop back and play the Blues with them.  Ok, I’m the oldest guy at 67, the youngest was early 30’s.  At the end of the round the scores were 79, 81, 89 and 95.  My 81 consisted of two double bogeys and the only birdie of the day for all players! Ok, I have course knowledge but that was shared as we played. At the end of the day I just didn’t see the skill level for them to play at the Blue tees. We held up play mostly on the back nine.

I think that playing the correct tees, tees that are comparable to your home course is the best way to play when you travel. I’ve always think that whatever your HDCP is at home should give you an idea of what tees to play when you travel. Giving a sense of how well your HDCP travels.

What are your thoughts on people playing the wrong tees and why? 

[Vinsk]

5 minutes ago, Sandy Lie said:

This has always been a hot topic of discussion. We all see players that play from the wrong tees which as we all know can lead to slow play and I’m sure a certain level of embarrassment.  Many times people playing a course for the first time will want to test themselves by playing from the tips.  I encounter this a lot where I play.  Playing #2 at Pinehurst I sort of get it. Some want to see how they compare against top Pro’s or Amateurs.  Some can handle it and play ok, but many cannot. After watching play at the U.S. Open and Amateur and even the North/South I fail to understand the “bigger why”?  Some of our Members do it too! Some play the U.S. Open tees which are closed tees (7,588 yards, 76.5/138) but they find them and off they go.  I’ve had several occasions to play with several Guests that give it a try and it is kind of sad. I’ve tracked a few players and neither shot under 100! 

Yesterday I played #8 with a couple of Guests, they decided to play the Blue Tees at 6,694 yards, 72.3/132.  I play the White tees at 6,311 yards, 70.3/128.  Off we go, 2 bogeys by the Guests, 2 pars by my friend (he’s av2.0) and myself. I forgot to mention one of the Guests mentioned he hasn’t played much lately. Well ok!   I was only the only White tee guy, but decided to go back and play the Blues based only on the distance between their tee shots and mine on the first hole (yardage gap).  So on the 2nd tee I said I’d drop back and play the Blues with them.  Ok, I’m the oldest guy at 67, the youngest was early 30’s.  At the end of the round the scores were 79, 81, 89 and 95.  My 81 consisted of two double bogeys and the only birdie of the day for all players! Ok, I have course knowledge but that was shared as we played. At the end of the day I just didn’t see the skill level for them to play at the Blue tees. We held up play mostly on the back nine.

I think that playing the correct tees, tees that are comparable to your home course is the best way to play when you travel. I’ve always think that whatever your HDCP is at home should give you an idea of what tees to play when you travel. Giving a sense of how well your HDCP travels.

What are your thoughts on people playing the wrong tees and why? 

I don’t think it’s the ‘wrong’ tees that causes slow play. Nothing wrong with wanting to have the experience you choose. Just do it with respect to pace.

[DaveP043]

7 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

I don’t think it’s the ‘wrong’ tees that causes slow play. Nothing wrong with wanting to have the experience you choose. Just do it with respect to pace.

I generally agree with this, except I do believe that longer tees CAN lead to slower play, in some cases.  I honestly don't care if someone wants to play the longest tees possible, as long as the player is considerate of everyone else on the course.  And that means playing at an appropriate pace.  If that means the player's choice of tees forces him to rush to keep pace, and that makes the round less enjoyable, I have no sympathy.  Personally, I'm a bit like @Sandy Lie, I generally try to choose tees appropriate for my length and ability, I don't really enjoy hitting hybrid and 3-wood on very many par-4 holes.  

[iacas]

I think, because you play at Pinehurst, you see this far more often than the average bear.

[Denny Bang Bang]

I play with some people who aren’t very good, but keep a good pace (regardless of the tees they play).  And I play with some good golfers who are slow (regardless of the tees they play).  Some people know how to keep pace, some don’t, regardless of skill level or tees.

I totally get the appeal of playing the back tees at courses that hold PGA events, or even LPGA events.  I’ve played roughly a dozen courses that have hosted PGA and LPGA events.  It’s no problem to play from the same tees as the LPGA (Locust Hill, Monroe GC), but I try to be realistic on the PGA courses (Oak Hill, Torrey Pines, etc.).  For example when I played Chambers Bay a few years back I feel like I still got the experience from 6,500 vs 7,200.  I’ll generally look at the yardage book for a new course, look at the longest carries I feel good with and play from those tees.

It is annoying though when a caddie (or anyone) tells me where I should play from, when they’ve never seen me play.  I get part of their job is to keep the pace going and they come across a lot of BS-ers, but it’s still annoying.  Keep your mouth shut until the golfer starts to slow the pace.  An example of this was last year at Coeur D Alene, I decided to play the tips which are 6,500.  The caddie made it known he disagreed, and then apologized after 3 holes when I was 1 over at that point, and was setting a pretty fast pace for our group to keep up with.  Suppose instead I was having a rough day and was 3 over through 3 holes, as long as my pace was on, who cares…

I guess the point of my ramble is… doesn’t matter what tee, as long as golfers keep a reasonable pace.

 

 

Edited February 13, 2022 by Denny Bang Bang

[Sandy Lie]

1 hour ago, Denny Bang Bang said:

I play with some people who aren’t very good, but keep a good pace (regardless of the tees they play).  And I play with some good golfers who are slow (regardless of the tees they play).  Some people know how to keep pace, some don’t, regardless of skill level or tees.

I totally get the appeal of playing the back tees at courses that hold PGA events, or even LPGA events.  I’ve played roughly a dozen courses that have hosted PGA and LPGA events.  It’s no problem to play from the same tees as the LPGA (Locust Hill, Monroe GC), but I try to be realistic on the PGA courses (Oak Hill, Torrey Pines, etc.).  For example when I played Chambers Bay a few years back I feel like I still got the experience from 6,500 vs 7,200.  I’ll generally look at the yardage book for a new course, look at the longest carries I feel good with and play from those tees.

It is annoying though when a caddie (or anyone) tells me where I should play from, when they’ve never seen me play.  I get part of their job is to keep the pace going and they come across a lot of BS-ers, but it’s still annoying.  Keep your mouth shut until the golfer starts to slow the pace.  An example of this was last year at Coeur D Alene, I decided to play the tips which are 6,500.  The caddie made it known he disagreed, and then apologized after 3 holes when I was 1 over at that point, and was setting a pretty fast pace for our group to keep up with.  Suppose instead I was having a rough day and was 3 over through 3 holes, as long as my pace was on, who cares…

I guess the point of my ramble is… doesn’t matter what tee, as long as golfers keep a reasonable pace.

 

 

I had that “caddie” experience at Brandon Dunes. All he talked about was himself when he caddied on the PGA tour. On Pacific Dunes we were on a Par 3, it was rain and wind. He tried to get me to hit a 3 iron to a 180ish par 3. I said I’ll take my 5 iron. You’ll never make it he said. I birdied the hole. Of course I was younger than I am today! 😮

[Double Mocha Man]

7 minutes ago, Sandy Lie said:

I had that “caddie” experience at Brandon Dunes.

My caddie at Bandon Dunes wouldn't let me go 7 feet into an "environmentally sensitive" area to fetch my brand new Titleist, sitting in plain sight.  He told me he'd be fired if he let me.  I respected that.  Though I'm sure someone in the foursome behind me, without caddies, snagged that ball in a New York minute. 

[iacas]

27 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

My caddie at Bandon Dunes wouldn't let me go 7 feet into an "environmentally sensitive" area to fetch my brand new Titleist, sitting in plain sight.

Good. You're not allowed to go in those.

[darthweasel]

my biggest beef on the topic was our group not being allowed to play short enough tees. Long time buddies and I took a trip where we played Running Y in Klamath Falls, then were mostly playing older courses in Lake Tahoe but the trip was built around Edgewood. Now, I am up to 24 years younger than these guys and we always play a 2-man scramble against each other. Knowing this was a once in a life time dream for them, when the starter asked what tees we wanted to play, I took their absolute nutted drive (200-220 at most) into account, and asked for something in the 5600-5800 range. 

He literally laughed, said, "we have those tees but you can't play them" (they were the "womens tees"...a term I refuse to use). As a result, these poor guys spent all day hitting good shots...for them. Not good for the course. When you are taking driver on an uphill par 3 and can't cover the sand in front with your longest club...on a related note, they did not enjoy the course itself near as much as if they were allowed to play the proper tees. It was simply too long for them to have fun. 

To the OP, I recently played with a guy playing much too long for him...his driver and my 3h were going about the same distance. He started on the blues (just north of 6600) but starting on the 4th hole would play from the very back of the back tee box, regardless of where the tees were located. Those boxes are over 7000 yards. You will never hear me argue that, for score and fun purposes, I am interested in playing that if I am driving it 220. With that said...we played through one group and on the back where we weren't waiting we finished in just over hour and a half. He was indisputably playing too long of tees and it did not slow us down a bit even with me staying in a different tee box. It would not have mattered which tees we played, he and I both move straight to our ball, make quick decisions, swing and are moving. 

By contrast, the guys I normally play with, i spend a lot of time gently prodding them to speed up. It would not matter which box is chosen, they are older guys, set in their ways, and are...not fast. It is not unusual that I have other groups play through. As many people on here will point out, fast is fast and slow is slow. 

 

[Darkfrog]

17 hours ago, Double Mocha Man said:

My caddie at Bandon Dunes wouldn't let me go 7 feet into an "environmentally sensitive" area to fetch my brand new Titleist, sitting in plain sight.

I'm not one of those people who goes into the woods to collect balls, but I keep a telescoping ball retriever in my bag for situations like this (I don't enjoy the penalty strokes for hitting into a penalty area, or O.B., but I really hate losing a ball, so if I can see it, I want to get it). There are a few courses in my area that have environmentally sensitive marsh areas that are prohibited to go in, and also my home course has lots of poison oak, thorny blackberry bushes, plenty of ticks, and slippery / steep slopes into creek beds, so as dorky as they are, the ball retriever is useful in these situations.

On topic, I occasionally see people playing the wrong tees (i.e., too long) at my home course. My group almost always has the first tee time of the day, so it doesn't impact our round, but as the first group out, from various vantage points around the course, it is easy to see where play is getting held up. I don't really care if people play the wrong tees if they are respectful of keeping pace, but in my opinion, sometimes these are not expert golfers playing the tips for the most challenging experience. At my course they are usually groups of middle aged men who mistakenly think the blue tees are the "men's" tees. I imagine being behind a group where they all slice their drives 180 yards into the forest, spend 5 minutes looking for their balls, drop, and then still have a 3-wood into (or short) of the green, would be frustrating, so I understand this. But I would have to say, that the majority of players that I see are playing appropriate tees, and it's more of a one-off to see an entire group playing too far back.

[Flushed]

I think a lot of us over-estimate our ability and want to test ourselves by hitting off the back tees. If we end up with a good score on forward tees, is there that asterisk beside the round? I remember shooting my best round on yellows (course was red, green, yellow, white) - still haven't given myself full credit for it.

[pganapathy]

5 hours ago, darthweasel said:

each other. Knowing this was a once in a life time dream for them, when the starter asked what tees we wanted to play, I took their absolute nutted drive (200-220 at most) into account, and asked for something in the 5600-5800 range. 

He literally laughed, said, "we have those tees but you can't play them" (they were the "womens tees"...a term I refuse to use). As a result, these poor guys spent all day hitting good shots...for them. Not good for the course. When you are taking driver on an uphill par 3 and can't cover the sand in front with your longest club...on a related note, they did not enjoy the course itself near as much as if they were allowed to play the proper tees. It was simply too long for them to have fun. 

I am not sure how it works in America, but here in India we tend to have four tee boxes.  Ladies, seniors, men's and championship.  No matter how short a hitter the man becomes as he ages, he is still required to play the senior tees, even if the ladies tees would be more appropriate length-wise.  A couple of my dad's cousins should ideally be playing from the ladies tees but are forbidden to do so

[Double Mocha Man]

15 minutes ago, pganapathy said:

I am not sure how it works in America, but here in India we tend to have four tee boxes.  Ladies, seniors, men's and championship.  No matter how short a hitter the man becomes as he ages, he is still required to play the senior tees, even if the ladies tees would be more appropriate length-wise.  A couple of my dad's cousins should ideally be playing from the ladies tees but are forbidden to do so

This is the story I was told a few weeks ago.  At my home course some senior men were reluctant to play the ladies' tees out of some sort of misplaced "shame" so the course removed one of the red tee markers and replaced it with a black tee marker... same exact forward tee box.  Now the senior men are quite happy to play the black tees! 

Edited February 14, 2022 by Double Mocha Man

[imsys0042]

A number of the older men at my home course play the most forward tees, which are generally referred to as the Ladies tees.  It generally puts them in the same place as where I am from what is considered the normal mens tees.

We have four sets of tees.  Back, Mens, Seniors and Ladies.   For the past couple of years they have been referred by color instead of designating by gender or age.   I think that's a good idea.   No shame in making it a long time around the sun and moving forward when you have to.

They have a hybrid tee set made up of the back two sets of tees.   I wish they would publish one for the other combinations so that there are more options.  The way my course is setup, there are plenty of ways you can combine tee boxes as people lose distance.

[mohearn]

I always think courses could do a better job guiding players to appropriate tees. Clipped this from course I was at, they had similar signage at the first tee where all could see. Why doesn't something like this work well? 

[iacas]

5 hours ago, Flushed said:

I think a lot of us over-estimate our ability and want to test ourselves by hitting off the back tees. If we end up with a good score on forward tees, is there that asterisk beside the round? I remember shooting my best round on yellows (course was red, green, yellow, white) - still haven't given myself full credit for it.

You could look at the differential for the round to see how "good" it was.

[mohearn]

5 hours ago, Flushed said:

I think a lot of us over-estimate our ability and want to test ourselves by hitting off the back tees. If we end up with a good score on forward tees, is there that asterisk beside the round? I remember shooting my best round on yellows (course was red, green, yellow, white) - still haven't given myself full credit for it.

Nah, no asterisk.  Give yourself credit.  If you really want to be precise, compare your round to course rating/slope, but I've stopped worrying about it.

 

[jsgolfer]

On 2/13/2022 at 2:53 PM, DaveP043 said:

 I generally try to choose tees appropriate for my length and ability, I don't really enjoy hitting hybrid and 3-wood on very many par-4 holes.  

I agree with Dave, it is not fun to hit hybrids or woods into many Par 4's.