Jump to content
IGNORED

Thoughts on This Article About "Mechanics"


Recommended Posts

  • Administrator
swing-mechanics-front-640x400.jpg

When I was learning golf, I thought that all I had to do was get my swing to look mechanically like Tiger Woods’ and everything would fall into place. If I could just hit his positions and ingrain them, I would then start hitting...

I'd like your thoughts on this article.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instructor Development, 5 Simple Keys®/Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins • Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 • "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 • Penn-State Behrend Head Coach • • • • • • • • • • :aimpoint: :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | 5SK.com | LSW | Instructional Droplets

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

I get what he is saying. I do think that being able to manipulate the clubface and path is a skill that can be learned, though to what degree might be related to the persons ability.

Saying all that, it still is wrapped around the baseline of what your golf swing is. Tiger was able to do what he did because his mechanics were amazing. I do not see high handicap golfers being able to see consistent success by working on manipulating the clubface, or low point control. If you are not shifting your weight correctly (swing mechanic), good luck trying to control your low point. 

"A good conversation is not designed to win the argument. It is designed to enjoy the exchange."

Matt "Dough", P.E.
 fasdfa dfdsaf 

What's in My Bag
Driver: :callaway: GBB Epic,  3-Wood: 
:titleist: 917h3 ,  Hybrid:  :titleist: 915 2-Hybrid,  Irons: :srixon: (4-PW)
Wedges:
:edel: Trapper (52, 56, 60),  Putter: :edel:,  Ball: :snell: MTB,  Shoe: :true_linkswear:,  Rangfinder: :bushnell: Tour V2

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • iacas changed the title to Thoughts on This Article About "Mechanics"
  • Administrator
15 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

Saying all that, it still is wrapped around the baseline of what your golf swing is. Tiger was able to do what he did because his mechanics were amazing. I do not see high handicap golfers being able to see consistent success by working on manipulating the clubface, or low point control. If you are not shifting your weight correctly (swing mechanic), good luck trying to control your low point. 

Yeah.

I think having thought about it for a little bit… he's talking about skill, and mechanics are still the baseline. Kinda like I was saying here:

On 8/11/2022 at 11:41 AM, iacas said:
  • Block practice is good for improving technique while random practice is good for improving your skill.
  • Technique sets the baseline, and skill determines the performance relative to that baseline.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instructor Development, 5 Simple Keys®/Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins • Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 • "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 • Penn-State Behrend Head Coach • • • • • • • • • • :aimpoint: :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | 5SK.com | LSW | Instructional Droplets

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Article came across like a sales pitch even though I knew it was a sales pitch before I started reading it. Not sure why that bugs me. Maybe because I had to read an analogy about golf swing/instruction that was a little odd (IMO) to get to the link to the content, without any real life examples of the concept.

I guess I understand "car/mechanic" analogy as it relates to golf swing, but for a car to function well, it needs an engine, transmission, brakes, tires, etc., and I feel like the article kind of glosses over having a base of good fundamentals.

-Peter

  • :cobra: King RADSPEED
  • :pxg: GEN4 0341XF, Fairway
  • :pxg: GEN4 0317X, Hybrid
  • :srixon: ZX 3-iron, ZX5 4-AW
  • :cleveland:  RTX Zipcore 54 & 58
  • L.A.B. Golf Directed Force 2.1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Administrator
1 minute ago, Darkfrog said:

I guess I understand "car/mechanic" analogy as it relates to golf swing, but for a car to function well, it needs an engine, transmission, brakes, tires, etc., and I feel like the article kind of glosses over having a base of good fundamentals.

That's a good way of putting that, IMO.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instructor Development, 5 Simple Keys®/Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins • Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 • "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 • Penn-State Behrend Head Coach • • • • • • • • • • :aimpoint: :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | 5SK.com | LSW | Instructional Droplets

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Honestly it reminded me of the advice to have a "go to swing" that you can depend on when things go south.   I didn't really find much that was a revelation.

 

—Adam

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Moderator
1 hour ago, Darkfrog said:

I guess I understand "car/mechanic" analogy as it relates to golf swing, but for a car to function well, it needs an engine, transmission, brakes, tires, etc., and I feel like the article kind of glosses over having a base of good fundamentals.

I think his car analogy is flawed. He likens building his swing like building the perfect car that never breaks down, which is physically impossible. The swing, too.

A better car analogy is being a racer. You want to build a car that’s mechanically sound to perform at its best, but driving it well is still a skill that needs to be developed. You want to build a sound mechanical swing so that you can work on the skill of scoring in golf.

Bill

“By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest.” - Confucius

My Swing Thread

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Just now, billchao said:

A better car analogy is being a racer. You want to build a car that’s mechanically sound to perform at its best, but driving it well is still a skill that needs to be developed.

My thought was, you can do more with a high performance car. 

"A good conversation is not designed to win the argument. It is designed to enjoy the exchange."

Matt "Dough", P.E.
 fasdfa dfdsaf 

What's in My Bag
Driver: :callaway: GBB Epic,  3-Wood: 
:titleist: 917h3 ,  Hybrid:  :titleist: 915 2-Hybrid,  Irons: :srixon: (4-PW)
Wedges:
:edel: Trapper (52, 56, 60),  Putter: :edel:,  Ball: :snell: MTB,  Shoe: :true_linkswear:,  Rangfinder: :bushnell: Tour V2

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Moderator
14 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

My thought was, you can do more with a high performance car. 

There’s different ways to look at it, but we’d be taking the thread OT if we break it down further 😃

Bill

“By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest.” - Confucius

My Swing Thread

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

I’ve never really understood the ‘go to swing’ concept. If you have a go to swing, why aren’t you going to it all the time? So, you’re otherwise trying to play a hero swing all the time until it crashes …then you go to a go to swing? Besides, if you have the talent to have a go to swing, you probably don’t need a go to swing. See how convoluted this gets? 

:ping: G25 Driver Stiff :ping: G20 3W, 5W :ping: S55 4-W (aerotech steel fiber 110g shafts) :ping: Tour Wedges 50*, 54*, 58* :nike: Method Putter Floating clubs: :edel: 54* trapper wedge

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

3 hours ago, iacas said:
swing-mechanics-front-640x400.jpg

When I was learning golf, I thought that all I had to do was get my swing to look mechanically like Tiger Woods’ and everything would fall into place. If I could just hit his positions and ingrain them, I would then start hitting...

I'd like your thoughts on this article.

I don't like this article. I'll just come out and say I think it's very bad advice. 

I'm no golfing Alfred Einstein, but if there's one thing I think I've learned is that "fixing" a single bad swing is a TERRIBLE IDEA. ... at least for me. 

Just so everyone knows this is my opinion, possibly fact, possibly not. 

When I have a "bad swing" on the golf course. For me, the worse thing I can do is try to fix it. I'm much better off forgetting it. One bad swing is NOT a pattern. One bad swing is just a bad swing. Years ago I was very bad at this. If I made a bad swing, I'd make an adjustment on the next swing. Often it would improve things. Then "Oh, SH!T, another bad swing!" ... Another adjustment. Then another adjustment and another and another. Then I look up and my swing is so whopper-jawed I have no idea what I'm doing. 

I think I've learned, after hitting my head on the same rock a few hundred times, that the best thing for me is to stick to my priority piece and or my one-swing thought. I do that now, sometimes very stubbornly. Once I get to the range and have video, ideally coaching I happy to try to "fix" things. Otherwise, on the course I'm sticking to the plan. I find that far more often, if I stick to the plan/priority piece/one-swing thought... what ever you want to call it. If I have one bad swing. It turns out to be just one bad swing. Not always, but far more often. 

Do I have bad rounds now and then because I sometimes stick with things that aren't working? Yes, I do. But I truly believe the general trend line is in a better direction when I stick to my plan/priority piece/one-swing. It's also another reason I don't want "coaching" from people who aren't my coach when on the golf course. 

Having said all of that. Do I have some things I will do especially during a tournament just to "Get through the round"? Of course I do. Things like playing what I call a "bunt driver" if the driver isn't working. Or drop the driver all together and tee off with a hybrid. I played one tournament round hitting only knock-down iron shots, as my full irons weren't working. Things like that, but for me trying to "correct" my mechanics on the golf course is a death move. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

The spirit of what he's saying is clubface control is important, which I agree with but I think it's going over board to say mechanics aren't important. Golf advice is sometimes akin to diet fads " lose weight without counting calories with these 3 tips"... Haha. 

Also I think that most people underestimate the fact that your brain and body are smart and will figure out a way to hit the ball despite your poor mechanics and strange places you may put it in. Therefore a lot of times excessive clubface manipulation is a result of poor mechanics in attempt to simply hit the ball instead of the earth. 

I think that you need good mechanics that put you in positions that require minimal clubface manipulation for your swing. 

I think maybe what the author is trying to say is you should have intention with your shots and practice to try to hit a certain shots with a predictable shape and most people don't practice that which is true...but I don't think simply training clubface control will overcome what Jim McLean used to call "death moves" haha 

Link to comment
Share on other sites


4 hours ago, iacas said:
swing-mechanics-front-640x400.jpg

When I was learning golf, I thought that all I had to do was get my swing to look...

I'd like your thoughts on this article.

At the beginning of the article I was fully prepared to strongly disagree with it. Primarily because through my own experience, trying to develop a mechanically sound swing is the fastest way to improvement. When you go on the golf course and you think forget technique, how can I hit this ball to get the desired result (seems simple no?) things fall apart, as you are then constantly reacting to the previous shot and swing… going purely off feels and not equipped or thinking through why -  don’t have the tools to properly analyze what you’ve done. 

 

I do however agree with multiple points, including the ability to develop diagnostic skills, and to make appropriate changes to work with the swing and the ball striking that you have that day. Is the definition of insanity to repeat the same action expect different results, so not making adjustments with the type of swing you have that day is sitting yourself up for an extremely  painful day on the links. All that being said, I think you have to you have enough experience to know the changes you specifically can make in your swing, to get back to the mechanically sound swing that you want, that produces a predictable bow flight pattern. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Administrator
24 minutes ago, dudu3000 said:

I think you have to you have enough experience to know the changes you specifically can make in your swing, to get back to the mechanically sound swing that you want, that produces a predictable bow flight pattern. 

Yes.

But getting to that point often involves a lot of mechanical work too. Or “technique” work.

The articles feels like “you have to have some skill and know how to apply it.” Some players will just keep hitting it off the toe. Others will figure out how to adjust.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instructor Development, 5 Simple Keys®/Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins • Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 • "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 • Penn-State Behrend Head Coach • • • • • • • • • • :aimpoint: :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | 5SK.com | LSW | Instructional Droplets

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

38 minutes ago, iacas said:

Yes.

But getting to that point often involves a lot of mechanical work too. Or “technique” work.

The articles feels like “you have to have some skill and know how to apply it.” Some players will just keep hitting it off the toe. Others will figure out how to adjust.

Agree fully. And you have to understand how or why you are getting to the impact you are - which like you said takes a lot of time working on how to get into those perfect positions with - as you distilled it to - with block practice. And analysis of your mechanics (video) and what the results are re: ball flight.

So I think the article is a little simple, and slightly misleading with the lead - because in my opinion working on technique isn’t completely blind. You aren’t either working on nailing technique or how to make adjustments - the two are not mutually exclusive.  
 

You see the results of what your changes do, and learn about striking and making changes concurrently. Thus purposeful work on mechanics leads to the ability to work with what you have on the course, and is the best way to better golf (or at least better striking) - in my opinion. 
 

Some guys go to the range and work through a bucket of balls thinking all they need is experience and repetition to make cleaner contact and play better. But those that go and work on (for example) their take away and getting in the right position at club parallel to deliver a square club face, also get the learning experience of knowing what those changes in their swings, which are specific and reproducible lead to, and those are much informative to improve quicker. It is causation driven improvement, not result driven reaction. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites


No, I don't think that if I make my swing look like a pro- I will get pro (TW, whoever..) results but do think I will hit fundamentally ok shots 70-80% (arbitrary number, but you get the idea) of the time compared to a pro. That ain't bad!!  

I am of the opinion that larger mechanics do 90% of the work and 10% is day to day variability (another arbitrary % split). Those who hit horrible shots like top it, rip out large chunks of earth, routinely shank, hit massive block-slices, death duck-hooks have fundamentally wrong mechanics (the 90% part) as to how to move the club around the body and how to use the body/arms to hit an acceptable shot.  Proper mechanics afford you a very comfortable margin of error in clubface delivery to keep the ball in play. It has very little to do with skill. There may be 'skill' involved in minimizing the remaining 10% variance or hitting high percentage of pure shots.     

Yeah, 1.5 degrees of resulting clubface variance results in missing the fairway but if someone thinks they can develop 'skill' to deliver the clubface at zero degrees vs +/-1.5 degrees without sound mechanics they are smoking some good stuff.   

I routinely see our club champ (+3.5) work on basic mechanics on the range.  

Vishal S.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

I am always hesitant to comment on swing mechanics, etc due to my low skill level but I think he is a little off.

First, most of us are not talented enough to make a minor swing change “on the fly” and instead should try to identify the flaw then think of what drill our teaching pro gave us to address that issue.  We can’t use practice aids on the course but we can do some simple drills such as stopping your swing at a certain point to make sure the club is in the correct position.

also, why would I practice anything other than my desired swing?  I am not talented enough to throughly learn 2 swings.  I have enough trouble with one.

also, I clicked into a few of his additional links, short of buying the book. And a lot of it sounded like swing mechanics such as getting the club in correct positions at certain places in the swing.  Is he selling mechanics but calling of something different?

 

Stuart M.
 

I am a "SCRATCH GOLFER".  I hit ball, Ball hits Tree, I scratch my head. 😜

Driver: Ping G410 Plus 10.5* +1* / 3 Hybrid: Cleveland HIBORE XLS / 4,5 & 6 Hybrids: Mizuno JP FLI-HI / Irons/Wedges 7-8-9-P-G: Mizuno JPX800 HD / Sand Wedge: Mizuno JPX 800 / Lob Wedge: Cleveland CBX 60* / Putter: Odyssey White Hot OG 7S / Balls: Srixon Soft / Beer: Labatt Blue (or anything nice & cold) 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

34 minutes ago, StuM said:

And a lot of it sounded like swing mechanics such as getting the club in correct positions at certain places in the swing.  Is he selling mechanics but calling of something different?

No.-Adam does not really teach mechanics-He seems to think that you can fix almost everything by picturing hammering a nail or understanding that you are hitting the ball off the toe and then trying to hit it farther toward the heel or other things like that.

But he knows mechanics are what the club or body are actually doing so you cannot avoid talking about them-BUt I do not think he teaches mechanics much at all.-It is almost all just mental imagery and skills-Not technique. Or mechanics.

"The expert golfer has maximum time to make minimal compensations. The poorer player has minimal time to make maximum compensations." - And no, I'm not Mac. Please do not PM me about it. I just think he is a crazy MFer and we could all use a little more crazy sometimes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share



  • Want to join this community?

    We'd love to have you!

    Sign Up
  • TST Partners

    TourStriker PlaneMate
    Golfer's Journal
    ShotScope
    The Stack System
    FlightScope Mevo
    Direct: Mevo, Mevo+, and Pro Package.

    Coupon Codes (save 10-15%): "IACAS" for Mevo/Stack, "IACASPLUS" for Mevo+/Pro Package, and "THESANDTRAP" for ShotScope.
  • Posts

    • Yes for me its the opposite I play 60-70% of my Golf solo ...which I enjoy ..its my workout -mental health-work on my game .... sometimes if I have a comp coming up I really hope to do well in I'll play full 18 hole round and tee off 2x to 3x balls off each hole and usually add another ball or too when it comes to my short game .... is a real workout but I find it brilliant for endurance to my game hitting 200+ shots in a round ... (still have just one ball I keep a score to...) I am lucky to have a total population in my region of much less than 50k yet 5x courses I can play including my own for less than $30..weekdays usually very easy to just turn up without booking and get out .... you can decide your pace , tees ,go for those hero shots ,focus just on your game ... unlike my last monthly medal where one of the foursome found out I was a  fulltime ASX Sharetrader so wanted to talk about the sharemarket he was also trading which is fine but next minute my mind was thinking about the market(which it does 40hrs+ pw) and drove the ball OB !! my own mental weakness fault..  
    • Like I was saying he's under the radar but would have played well at the Pres cup ....now maybe  in the top 25 in the world .. will make the next Masters..... >>>>>>>>>>> When it comes to motivation, Ryan Fox didn’t glean much from being bypassed for Presidents Cup captain’s pick a few weeks back. However, as he navigated St. Andrews’ Old Course to the tune of 4-under 68 and a one-shot victory Sunday at the Alfred Dunhill Links, Fox was spurred on by something else: his late pro-am partner. “To be honest the only person I can really think of at the moment is Warnie,” Fox said on the 18th green afterward. Fox, the 35-year-old son of New Zealand rugby player Grant Fox, had paired with Australian cricket legend Shane Warne a few times in this event, including last year when the duo finished second. That marked the last appearance for Warne, a regular at the Dunhill Links who died from a suspected heart attack last March at age 52. “There was definitely some extra motivation there this week,” Fox added later. “Maybe not so much the Presidents Cup, but definitely to try to do something special for Warnie … and I'm pretty proud to have been able to accomplish that.” Fox, who ended last year at No. 213 in the world rankings, is now expected to rise inside the top 25, 
    • Obviously Fox saw the discussions here and proved a point yesterday
    • It's been a long time since I've played alone, but I'm looking forward to doing it again one day. I like it as an intermediate zone between the range and golf with other people. I find it much easier to play alone, and it allows me to practice shots I otherwise might not think to try if I was on the range. Added bonus that it's very peaceful and low stress, and it's a nice thing to mix into the routine.
    • I quit because I have to. It's kind of difficult to golf through 3 feet of snow. Right now my issue is a lot of family demands and very little light. Also I often have issues with heightened expectations when I haven't been playing great as of late.  Since becoming an avid golfer, I haven't really quit golf, I've just put it on pause.
  • Today's Birthdays

    1. bluemagoo
      bluemagoo
      (72 years old)
    2. Camdenn
      Camdenn
      (27 years old)
    3. Joe Jetson
      Joe Jetson
      (67 years old)
    4. Karlos
      Karlos
      (30 years old)
    5. Markdd91
      Markdd91
      (31 years old)

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Welcome to TST! Signing up is free, and you'll see fewer ads and can talk with fellow golf enthusiasts! By using TST, you agree to our Terms of Use, our Privacy Policy, and our Guidelines.

The popup will be closed in 10 seconds...