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Posted

I'm really looking forward to making a trip to Erie in 2023 to get on GEARS.  I know it will be time well spent....and fun to see how it all works.  

Matt          My Swing

 

 :ping: G425 Max Driver

Sub 70 3 wood, 3 hybrid and 5-p 639CB

Edison wedges 51, 55, 59

Sub 70 004 Mallet

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Posted
On 12/26/2022 at 5:29 PM, iacas said:

GEARS removes the doubt about whether I'm being truthful, about whether they "did it" or not, and quickly makes golfers aware of how extreme something often has to be to make the necessary change.

I love that about GEARS. It is a great reinforcement when you are working on nailing down a feel. 

On 12/26/2022 at 5:29 PM, iacas said:

The camera angles and positioning in GEARS is perfect. Perfectly down the line, perfectly face-on, perfect from any of the six views (above, below, rear, and from the target in addition to the traditional face-on/caddie and down-the-line). Because it's software, the camera can "move" to whatever the perfect angle with perfect alignment. And these perfect views exist for literally infinite camera views, I get any camera view I want. If I want to look at something, I can whip the camera around virtually, even while the avatar is swinging, and see whatever I want to see.

What I like about this is, it captures all of them for the same swing. Lets say you use a single video camera, you need to make 2-3 different swings to get the angles you want. When exaggerating something, you may not be the same every time. With GEARS, going from DTL, to FO, to maybe from the top down is really nice. 

This made me think of wanting to create some sort of attachment for my tripod, so maybe I can pull a string out straight so I can set up the alignment stick correctly ever time. 

On 12/26/2022 at 5:29 PM, iacas said:

I love that GEARS gives every student access to what they call the "web locker." The Web Locker contains six views of your swings (though annoying the down-the-line is from out at the ball) as short movie clips, a bunch of data, and screenshots I take during lessons are uploaded for viewing. This is how I often communicate the changes made and the things we worked on in a lesson — I "star" the swing and attach screenshots, and students can access them from home, for free, at any time.

This is super nice for the student. It is so convenient to be able to go to the range, pull up the web locker and review stuff as you go. 

At least for me, I like to imagine, making a mental image of my self making a type of motion. Being able to see a good version of what I want to do, I think is very beneficial. 

 

Matt Dougherty, P.E.
 fasdfa dfdsaf 

What's in My Bag
Driver; :pxg: 0311 Gen 5,  3-Wood: 
:titleist: 917h3 ,  Hybrid:  :titleist: 915 2-Hybrid,  Irons: Sub 70 TAIII Fordged
Wedges: :edel: (52, 56, 60),  Putter: :edel:,  Ball: :snell: MTB,  Shoe: :true_linkswear:,  Rangfinder: :leupold:
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Posted
On 12/26/2022 at 5:29 PM, iacas said:

I can hold a student's head, hold a club against their lead hip, move their knees around or hold a foot down, and so on.

 

I can vouch for this. I've been shoved, pushed, pulled and leaned on while on GEARS. The person doing the shoving, pushing, pulling and what not doesn't show up. It's almost like a green screen special affect in a movie. ... You know the ones where the people wear those totally green outfits so they can be digitally removed. Only with GEARs the person doesn't have to be removed. It's more like he was never there. 

It's also pretty amazing how you are getting every camera angle at the same time... (or camera angels as the case may be.) 

My bag is an ever-changing combination of clubs. 

A mix I am forever tinkering with. 

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Posted

I'm using the AlmostGolf balls more and more, and considering using them in regular lessons more too.

They have two main benefits, both while the golfer is still swinging at something that looks like a golf ball (because it basically is):

  • The markers on the shaft in GEARS are far less likely to vibrate off from a mis-hit.
  • The golfer is more willing to make a bigger change because they won't feel the harsh vibrations or whatever from a mis-hit, a shank, etc.

I'm a big fan of hitting a lot of golf balls during a lesson, and even if people are going to make a rehearsal backswing, I like them to do that after they set up to a golf ball. It makes the rehearsal they'll do "more real."

The second bullet point above is the reason I'm considering using them more in regular lessons.


The Ultimate Off-Course Practice Golf Ball. Performs like a real golf ball, except one-third the distance. Neighborhood and backyard safe.

What do you think? If you showed up at a lesson, and the instructor gave you these balls, what would you be thinking?

Also, I encourage everyone to get a dozen (or more). I bought the 240-pack over Christmas.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

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Posted

It's really cool to read all that. Smart people (you, AMG, and I'm sure a few others) digging into that system and the data it provides will no doubt improve instruction, but I'm sure teach us more about the swing in general. I had the thought that some day, there will probably be AI systems that can take GEARS data as input and "teach" a student. Maybe these already exist. Kind of like if something like Hack Motion's "teaching" functionality was analagous to, oh, tic tac toe, I'm envisioning a GEARS AI being like Spock's 3-D chess. I'm sure there are better metaphors......

Or maybe AI wouldn't work for golf teaching. I know practically nothing about both 🙂

 

JP Bouffard

"I cut a little driver in there." -- Jim Murray

Driver: Titleist 915 D3, ACCRA Shaft 9.5*.
3W: Callaway XR,
3,4 Hybrid: Taylor Made RBZ Rescue Tour, Oban shaft.
Irons: 5-GW: Mizuno JPX800, Aerotech Steelfiber 95 shafts, S flex.
Wedges: Titleist Vokey SM5 56 degree, M grind
Putter: Edel Custom Pixel Insert 

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Posted
2 minutes ago, Big Lex said:

It's really cool to read all that. Smart people (you, AMG, and I'm sure a few others) digging into that system and the data it provides will no doubt improve instruction, but I'm sure teach us more about the swing in general. I had the thought that some day, there will probably be AI systems that can take GEARS data as input and "teach" a student. Maybe these already exist. Kind of like if something like Hack Motion's "teaching" functionality was analagous to, oh, tic tac toe, I'm envisioning a GEARS AI being like Spock's 3-D chess. I'm sure there are better metaphors......

Or maybe AI wouldn't work for golf teaching. I know practically nothing about both 🙂

It could. Eventually.

It's there now if you want to teach only one swing model. It could even, if a competent developer was behind it, prioritize things and probably know what downstream effects of a single change would be.

But I don't think it's super close to being able to teach actual humans who have all sorts of history, capability, time to practice… etc.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

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Posted (edited)
38 minutes ago, iacas said:

...prioritize things and probably know what downstream effects of a single change would be.

To me, one frustration with golf is you change one thing, which causes and improvement, and this triggers a change in something ELSE, which sometimes is NOT an improvement. I remember MANY times, in live lessons or watching videos or reading books - I'm talking golf teaching from say the 1970's through maybe 2000 - teachers saying "the trouble with golf is, people try to fix symptoms...they don't fix the CAUSE of the problems." Well, duh, I don't think anyone actually WANTS to fix a "symptom." They are always trying to identify and fix the cause. It's just that their understanding of causality was pretty bad in those days. 

The fact that GEARS data can possibly get a real, valid handle on the cause and effect chain is really exciting, because maybe some day, all golf teaching can properly isolate the real causes for every student. I realize it's more complicated than this, and I do accept that we already know alot, and improvement requires a ton of work that no amount of knowledge alone can replace. But teaching is already way better today than just a short time ago, just with the proliferation of conventional types of tech like video, force plates, etc., and the growth of golf's knowledge base in general. GEARS can only take it further. 

I've heard GEARS described as a "golf MRI." I think it's more than that, alot more. If scientists like Sacho and Kwon and Jacob's guy have figured out the structure of golf DNA, GEARS is like the development of nexgen sequencing, where we can take ANY golfer and isolate their own, unique swing DNA in an instant. (I realize GEARS does not calculate things like the force vectors that people like Sacho or Kwon study and depict in their systems, so it's not an exact analogy...but the point is, I think GEARS is a disruptive, leap of tech, not just a fancy new tool.)

Edited by Big Lex
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JP Bouffard

"I cut a little driver in there." -- Jim Murray

Driver: Titleist 915 D3, ACCRA Shaft 9.5*.
3W: Callaway XR,
3,4 Hybrid: Taylor Made RBZ Rescue Tour, Oban shaft.
Irons: 5-GW: Mizuno JPX800, Aerotech Steelfiber 95 shafts, S flex.
Wedges: Titleist Vokey SM5 56 degree, M grind
Putter: Edel Custom Pixel Insert 

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Posted

As long as they provide some feedback I’m fine with using them. I will get a dozen for my indoor work. I have other foam balls, but they are kind of flimsy.

Scott

Titleist, Edel, Scotty Cameron Putter, Snell - AimPoint - Evolvr - MirrorVision

My Swing Thread

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Posted
2 hours ago, boogielicious said:

As long as they provide some feedback I’m fine with using them. I will get a dozen for my indoor work. I have other foam balls, but they are kind of flimsy.

Some. The biggest benefit is that they're much safer (due to their light weight) - you can hit it into a window and it likely won't do anything, etc. I demonstrate by whipping it at our main big windows.

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Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

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Posted
17 hours ago, iacas said:

I'm using the AlmostGolf balls more and more, and considering using them in regular lessons more too.

They have two main benefits, both while the golfer is still swinging at something that looks like a golf ball (because it basically is):

  • The markers on the shaft in GEARS are far less likely to vibrate off from a mis-hit.
  • The golfer is more willing to make a bigger change because they won't feel the harsh vibrations or whatever from a mis-hit, a shank, etc.

I'm a big fan of hitting a lot of golf balls during a lesson, and even if people are going to make a rehearsal backswing, I like them to do that after they set up to a golf ball. It makes the rehearsal they'll do "more real."

The second bullet point above is the reason I'm considering using them more in regular lessons.


The Ultimate Off-Course Practice Golf Ball. Performs like a real golf ball, except one-third the distance. Neighborhood and backyard safe.

What do you think? If you showed up at a lesson, and the instructor gave you these balls, what would you be thinking?

Also, I encourage everyone to get a dozen (or more). I bought the 240-pack over Christmas.

I bought a dozen of these a few months ago. They are great for all th reasons you mentioned. They are not like the flimsy, sponge-nerf type balls. They have some firmness and while impact is soft, it still sort of feels like you are hitting a golf ball. The simulator (mine is based on a Uneekor launch monitor) also tracks them as well as a real golf ball. Of course they spin and launch differently than a real ball, but you can use them and still get (I think) reliable information about face angle, path, etc., with most of the launch monitor systems out there. I find that people who are beginners or otherwise kind of tentative about swinging a golf club and hitting a ball inside my house will more readily try it with these balls because they aren't afraid they will break something. 

JP Bouffard

"I cut a little driver in there." -- Jim Murray

Driver: Titleist 915 D3, ACCRA Shaft 9.5*.
3W: Callaway XR,
3,4 Hybrid: Taylor Made RBZ Rescue Tour, Oban shaft.
Irons: 5-GW: Mizuno JPX800, Aerotech Steelfiber 95 shafts, S flex.
Wedges: Titleist Vokey SM5 56 degree, M grind
Putter: Edel Custom Pixel Insert 

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  • 2 months later...
Posted
On 12/28/2022 at 6:51 PM, Big Lex said:

To me, one frustration with golf is you change one thing, which causes and improvement, and this triggers a change in something ELSE, which sometimes is NOT an improvement. I remember MANY times, in live lessons or watching videos or reading books - I'm talking golf teaching from say the 1970's through maybe 2000 - teachers saying "the trouble with golf is, people try to fix symptoms...they don't fix the CAUSE of the problems." Well, duh, I don't think anyone actually WANTS to fix a "symptom." They are always trying to identify and fix the cause. It's just that their understanding of causality was pretty bad in those days. 

The fact that GEARS data can possibly get a real, valid handle on the cause and effect chain is really exciting, because maybe some day, all golf teaching can properly isolate the real causes for every student. I realize it's more complicated than this, and I do accept that we already know alot, and improvement requires a ton of work that no amount of knowledge alone can replace. But teaching is already way better today than just a short time ago, just with the proliferation of conventional types of tech like video, force plates, etc., and the growth of golf's knowledge base in general. GEARS can only take it further. 

I've heard GEARS described as a "golf MRI." I think it's more than that, alot more. If scientists like Sacho and Kwon and Jacob's guy have figured out the structure of golf DNA, GEARS is like the development of nexgen sequencing, where we can take ANY golfer and isolate their own, unique swing DNA in an instant. (I realize GEARS does not calculate things like the force vectors that people like Sacho or Kwon study and depict in their systems, so it's not an exact analogy...but the point is, I think GEARS is a disruptive, leap of tech, not just a fancy new tool.)


I had another lesson on GEARs this past Friday. If anyone is on the fence of whether or not to try it, you owe it to yourself to give it a go. You see a lot of "what's really going on". 
My guess is one of the fears of using it is that you will see your faults. It reminds me a bit of when people start using a product like Arccos or Shotscope and hate it, because they don't really want to know how far they hit each club. GEARs is kind of like that. You can't hide a fault from GEARs because it can "see" you at every angle (or angel) at once. 

The other reason I think that people are reluctant is the same reason I hear people say that they don't want to take lessons. "You're going to compare me to a tour pro." ..."I'm not a tour pro." 

Of course you aren't. But there are lots of areas where comparing what tour pros do to what you do makes sense. If you have some true disabilities that puts you in another situation. But I am one of the least flexible and least coordinated people I know. I have no rhythm what so ever. Never-the-less, I can compare my swing to what Rory McIlroy does, and I can learn from that. GEARs can show me instantly if I'm heading in the right direction. 

In my last GEARs session as well as my other ones too. I can look and say, here's what you are doing. Here's what you want to be doing. Then I can "see" what I'm trying to achieve. Let me try this feel. Oh no, that doesn't work. How about this. Hey that gets me closer. When I get closer to where I want to be I hit better shots.... LO AND BEHOLD!  

It's also cool because you have a record of how far you've come. I can look back and see that I was nowhere near where I am now. Then I can look forward and say "Check that out, I'm kinda close there on that occasion. I need to do more of that." (what ever "that" is, it will be different for everyone.)  

Lastly, I've heard the stories and read the books about "finding YOUR true swing" and all of that. Which is all well and good. But why not have "your swing" be better? When I watch the little GEARs guy swing (You know the guy I'm talking about) I can still see "my swing". It is still as unique as a thumbprint. Now, its just a little better thumbprint with better, more consistent contact. 

If you've tried it, you know what I'm talking about. If you haven't tried it. You should. 

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My bag is an ever-changing combination of clubs. 

A mix I am forever tinkering with. 

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Posted
4 hours ago, ChetlovesMer said:

I can look and say, here's what you are doing. Here's what you want to be doing. Then I can "see" what I'm trying to achieve. Let me try this feel. Oh no, that doesn't work. How about this. Hey that gets me closer.

I've said it before, but I think this is the biggest benefit to GEARS for me. It removes the ambiguity of communication. If @iacas is trying to get me to do something and I'm not doing it, is it because I'm not quite understanding what he wants me to do, or am I just doing it wrong? With GEARS it's like, see that number, X? Make it closer to Y instead. Then I go about exploring some feels, which for me feels less foreign because it's coming out of my brain.

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Bill

“By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest.” - Confucius

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Posted
9 hours ago, billchao said:

I've said it before, but I think this is the biggest benefit to GEARS for me. It removes the ambiguity of communication. If @iacas is trying to get me to do something and I'm not doing it, is it because I'm not quite understanding what he wants me to do, or am I just doing it wrong? With GEARS it's like, see that number, X? Make it closer to Y instead. Then I go about exploring some feels, which for me feels less foreign because it's coming out of my brain.

I think you hit the nail on the head.

Yeah, this last week. Yoda's like "See how when we trace your movement it makes a line that is shaped like this... Make it shaped like this."

Then I can picture it. So I try one feel and it made it worse. Then I tried another feel and I went too far the other way. So, @iacas is like "Yeah, do that, but less of it." Then suddenly you get it right and you're like. "Oh, look. I can do it." The ability to make a good swing is in there. 

I think a lot of people would be surprised what they "can" actually do. 

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My bag is an ever-changing combination of clubs. 

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Posted
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Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

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  • 1 year later...
Posted

I’m heading up in a few weeks to go through gears and very excited, been waiting all winter to make the drive up. After several years of watching amg videos and seeing other gears stuff  it’s going to be cool to see my own swing in 3d, better or worse! With numbers on everything.

I like tech and information but how do you not get bogged down with a full mri? Did you just go in with a couple things you’d like to know or work on? Do most just use 7 iron and driver? 
After going through gears and the limits of 2d video, do you feel like you have better awareness when you do film your own swing? 
 

cheers!

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Posted
12 minutes ago, 11bravoveteran said:

I’m heading up in a few weeks to go through gears and very excited, been waiting all winter to make the drive up. After several years of watching amg videos and seeing other gears stuff  it’s going to be cool to see my own swing in 3d, better or worse! With numbers on everything.

Congrats.

13 minutes ago, 11bravoveteran said:

I like tech and information but how do you not get bogged down with a full mri? Did you just go in with a couple things you’d like to know or work on? Do most just use 7 iron and driver? 

If you are going to work with @iacas (I think you are..), then don't worry about it too much. He will take you through the process and help filter it to your priority/priorities. If you are curious or know something upfront then prepare a list of questions you can ask. Have fun.

Vishal S.

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Posted
1 hour ago, 11bravoveteran said:

I like tech and information but how do you not get bogged down with a full mri? Did you just go in with a couple things you’d like to know or work on? Do most just use 7 iron and driver? 

As Vishal said, i’m happy to give you a tour or look at anything specific at first but then I will narrow the focus to the few bits of info that you’ll want to see.

Since you’re here for two days we will probably just do your seven iron the first day and I will add markers to your driver for the second day. they can “cure” overnight.


Obviously a camera is not as good as GEARS, but at least you will know what to focus on and what the change should look like.

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Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

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  • Posts

    • Nah, man. People have been testing clubs like this for decades at this point. Even 35 years. @M2R, are you AskGolfNut? If you're not, you seem to have fully bought into the cult or something. So many links to so many videos… Here's an issue, too: - A drop of 0.06 is a drop with a 90 MPH 7I having a ball speed of 117 and dropping it to 111.6, which is going to be nearly 15 yards, which is far more than what a "3% distance loss" indicates (and is even more than a 4.6% distance loss). - You're okay using a percentage with small numbers and saying "they're close" and "1.3 to 1.24 is only 4.6%," but then you excuse the massive 53% difference that going from 3% to 4.6% represents. That's a hell of an error! - That guy in the Elite video is swinging his 7I at 70 MPH. C'mon. My 5' tall daughter swings hers faster than that.
    • Yea but that is sort of my quandary, I sometimes see posts where people causally say this club is more forgiving, a little more forgiving, less forgiving, ad nauseum. But what the heck are they really quantifying? The proclamation of something as fact is not authoritative, even less so as I don't know what the basis for that statement is. For my entire golfing experience, I thought of forgiveness as how much distance front to back is lost hitting the face in non-optimal locations. Anything right or left is on me and delivery issues. But I also have to clarify that my experience is only with irons, I never got to the point of having any confidence or consistency with anything longer. I feel that is rather the point, as much as possible, to quantify the losses by trying to eliminate all the variables except the one you want to investigate. Or, I feel like we agree. Compared to the variables introduced by a golfer's delivery and the variables introduced by lie conditions, the losses from missing the optimal strike location might be so small as to almost be noise over a larger area than a pea.  In which case it seems that your objection is that the 0-3% area is being depicted as too large. Which I will address below. For statements that is absurd and true 100% sweet spot is tiny for all clubs. You will need to provide some objective data to back that up and also define what true 100% sweet spot is. If you mean the area where there are 0 losses, then yes. While true, I do not feel like a not practical or useful definition for what I would like to know. For strikes on irons away from the optimal location "in measurable and quantifiable results how many yards, or feet, does that translate into?"   In my opinion it ok to be dubious but I feel like we need people attempting this sort of data driven investigation. Even if they are wrong in some things at least they are moving the discussion forward. And he has been changing the maps and the way data is interpreted along the way. So, he admits to some of the ideas he started with as being wrong. It is not like we all have not been in that situation 😄 And in any case to proceed forward I feel will require supporting or refuting data. To which as I stated above, I do not have any experience in drivers so I cannot comment on that. But I would like to comment on irons as far as these heat maps. In a video by Elite Performance Golf Studios - The TRUTH About Forgiveness! Game Improvement vs Blade vs Players Distance SLOW SWING SPEED! and going back to ~12:50 will show the reference data for the Pro 241. I can use that to check AskGolfNut's heat map for the Pro 241: a 16mm heel, 5mm low produced a loss of efficiency from 1.3 down to 1.24 or ~4.6%. Looking at AskGolfNut's heatmap it predicts a loss of 3%. Is that good or bad? I do not know but given the possible variations I am going to say it is ok. That location is very close to where the head map goes to 4%, these are very small numbers, and rounding could be playing some part. But for sure I am going to say it is not absurd. Looking at one data point is absurd, but I am not going to spend time on more because IME people who are interested will do their own research and those not interested cannot be persuaded by any amount of data. However, the overall conclusion that I got from that video was that between the three clubs there is a difference in distance forgiveness, but it is not very much. Without some robot testing or something similar the human element in the testing makes it difficult to say is it 1 yard, or 2, or 3?  
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