How do New Golfers Learn Etiquette?

[ChiTown]

Okay. This is a minor rant but also an honest question.

I was playing as a single on a quiet day and was asked to follow a fivesome that was about to tee off. Not a big deal. Anyway, I quickly figure out it’s two new members and three guests all in their late 30s or so. They decide to play from the tips, so I figure they’ll move pretty well — nope. First hole is P4 around 425 yards. Their drives go everywhere but the fairway, and longest drive was around 200. Putting was worse as they were lining things up like they were on the PGA tour and still three putting. I caught up to them at the second tee box P5 while they are waiting for next group to hit their approach shots - so basically, the group in front is 350-400 yards in front of them. I was hoping that they would let me play through — of course not. They were self absorbed talking about how much money they’re making etc. Anyway, I ended up chasing them around the course and they could easily see me waiting on them. I caught up to them a few times and not once did they offer to let me play through — and by now they were easily a hole behind the foursome ahead of them. Luckily, I was walking with a caddie (they used carts) so he saw everything as well.

My question for the group. First, I’m glad to see new members joining clubs etc. But where do they learn etiquette? Not just ready golf, but fixing divots, don’t drag your putter on the green, etc. Second, how could I have asked them to let me play through without pissing them off? 

[saevel25]

1 hour ago, ChiTown said:

I caught up to them a few times and not once did they offer to let me play through — and by now they were easily a hole behind the foursome ahead of them. Luckily, I was walking with a caddie (they used carts) so he saw everything as well.

How about ask to play through? 

1 hour ago, ChiTown said:

Second, how could I have asked them to let me play through without pissing them off? 

It is not rude to ask to play through. I do not care if it implies, they are slow. Really it could also imply that you play fast. The worst thing that can happen is they say no. If one of them complains to the club, I think they will just be ignored as crazy. Ideally, we would prefer the other person will be nice enough to let people play through. 

[Beastie]

I would have just explained to them the basic etiquette and then asked to play through.( Framing it as a done deal so to speak.) How long did you wait behind them?

[saevel25]

12 minutes ago, Beastie said:

I would have just explained to them the basic etiquette and then asked to play through. ( Framing it as a done deal so to speak.) How long did you wait behind them?

Nah, don't explain anything. It will not accomplish anything. The odds of them being receptive to change is very low. You are just going to antagonize them. 

I would notify the club house, and hope they do something. They are in a position of authority being they control the club. 

Edited September 15, 2023 by saevel25

[ChiTown]

38 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

How about ask to play through? 

It is not rude to ask to play through. I do not care if it implies, they are slow. Really it could also imply that you play fast. The worst thing that can happen is they say no. If one of them complains to the club, I think they will just be ignored as crazy. Ideally, we would prefer the other person will be nice enough to let people play through. 

Thanks! Next time I’ll politely ask / tell that I’d like to play through. To your point, the worst they say is no, and then I just keep on their heels. Hahaha

Complaining to the club is nbd for me. I’ve been there about ten years and the folks know me  

41 minutes ago, Beastie said:

I would have just explained to them the basic etiquette and then asked to play through.( Framing it as a done deal so to speak.) How long did you wait behind them?

By the time they teed off, found their balls, and all took their second shot probably 15 min or so. It was brutal to watch.  That said, I did get a bit of a moral victory on the par threes and landed each tee shot on the green right behind them.  

[klineka]

3 hours ago, ChiTown said:

Second, how could I have asked them to let me play through without pissing them off? 

Why does it matter if they get pissed off? Ask to play through in a respectful manner/tone and if they get pissed off then that's on them.

A simple "hey do you guys mind if I play through real quick?" would suffice. 

No need to mention anything about etiquette or anything like that.

I think that's a bit ridiculous that you were with a caddie, behind a fivesome and the caddie didn't say anything either.

[Vinsk]

I’ve never had anyone tell me no when asking  to play through if it was indeed a time to do so.

[billchao]

8 hours ago, saevel25 said:

Nah, don't explain anything. It will not accomplish anything. The odds of them being receptive to change is very low. You are just going to antagonize them. 

I would notify the club house, and hope they do something. They are in a position of authority being they control the club. 

That’s the wrong way to approach things IMO. These players might be new to the game and they don’t understand proper etiquette. Be an ambassador. Help teach them when situations might arise You don’t have to assume that people are going to be antagonistic or defensive. If everyone in life just went along their business with the attitude that it’s someone else’s problem or responsibility, no one learns anything.

[snapfade]

First off, what was the caddie doing? He's an employee of the club he should have at least gotten a hold of the course marshall. Second, just ask to play through. If they give you heartburn let the marshall know if he passes by. If they are asses about it then play through anyway. I blew past three groups today at Disney LBV, just waved and drove by. Tourists doing their thing. No problems. Actually I Iove playing the Disney courses now, the Marshalls don't play they are visible and pro active. t's unfortunate you had to get stuck behind them but I would have skipped them if they weren't getting the hint and staff was no help. 

[GolfLug]

18 hours ago, klineka said:

A simple "hey do you guys mind if I play through real quick?" would suffice. 

+1

18 hours ago, klineka said:

No need to mention anything about etiquette or anything like that.

+2

Most would pick up on the fact that it is the etiquette without being told it is.

On that note and to comment on the title, just demonstrate without being preachy and you've done your job. Beyond that, it's on them.

Only time I would be a bit more deliberate is if they were drove up too close to the green or tee box or something that damages the course.

Reminds of this time at WW with Erik where behind us were a group of college kids who drove up right next to green on 4th while we were teeing off on the 5th.  Erik asked them nicely not too do that. One of the guys said something smart assy but then they cleaned up. 

Edited September 16, 2023 by GolfLug

[ChiTown]

9 hours ago, snapfade said:

First off, what was the caddie doing? He's an employee of the club he should have at least gotten a hold of the course marshall. Second, just ask to play through. If they give you heartburn let the marshall know if he passes by. If they are asses about it then play through anyway. I blew past three groups today at Disney LBV, just waved and drove by. Tourists doing their thing. No problems. Actually I Iove playing the Disney courses now, the Marshalls don't play they are visible and pro active. t's unfortunate you had to get stuck behind them but I would have skipped them if they weren't getting the hint and staff was no help. 

@snapfade. I didn’t think about asking the caddie to be the messenger — and in hindsight I should have just asked. Worst they say is no and then I just nip at their heels for the next 17 holes. Haha. If I was pressed for time, I would have jumped ahead, but I wasn’t in a rush so figured I’d enjoy the show. No better feeling than dropping a ball onto a P3 from the tee or just standing in the middle of the fairway on an approach shot knowing these guys are ahead of you.

[snapfade]

The other option is to have Moose and Rocco meet them after their round. 

[NZ Golfer]

yes blight on the game slow play esp when they don't let you past ..

By far the easiest way to ruin my round is to watch players hack around and then think they should spend pro time lining up their putts for a double-triple+ bogey ..

I had one case in pretty poor weather on a hard course that attracts many tourists during the season ...this day, my mate and I were behind other players that were playing similar pace so no stress till a tourist couple decided to drive right past us on the fairway around halfway in the round ... no stress as it was pretty cold raining so thought they were heading to clubhouse ...

But no they just wanted to tee off in front of us and end up hacking the ball all over the show and holding us up on every tee from there on.. ????!!!!! 

 

Always deflating when you're playing a great round with no one in front and come to the back nine to have slow players all over the show that have no cares to look behind ( local GC has an easier back nine)

 

 

[Carl3]

A very important concept is to keep up with the group ahead. That might mean as a high handicapper that you pick your ball up after you have taken 6 to 8 swings at the ball on a hole. If you lose two balls or less in a round, taking the whole 3 minutes to search is fine. I have played with people who seem to search after almost every tee shot. They should be playing with a bag of shag balls and not search more than 30 seconds at a time 😂.

The management should not have let a group of 5 tee off. That is poor etiquette on the groups part and poor management. 

It is often hard to judge when to tee off on a par 5. I often use a range finder to see how far ahead the group ahead is. A short par 5 might have approach shots in range of a very good drive. Can you tell if someone is 280 yards out versus 315 yards? Dry conditions on an unfamiliar course can lead to you getting uncomfortably close to the group ahead. I have hit into the group ahead before when I have hit a great shot. Sometimes I now just lay up so as not to tick off the group behind me. Pull out the iron and give myself 50 yards to the pin instead of going for it with a 3 wood. I have altered my game to keep the hot heads behind me from going apoplectic. 

Part of etiquette is giving the group in front of you space and not putting pressure on them when they as well have a group in front of them. I hate playing in front of a group of entitled, impatient people who roll up on every shot the entire round when there is several groups ahead of you locked in a tight series. These people will take it out on the group ahead of them for having a 4-1/2 hour round even though it is something happening well in front. 
I recall standing over a putt once on a short par 4 when a cart comes racing up and screeches on the brakes 50 yards behind me. They guy wanted us to know he hit a great drive and did not appreciate sharing the course with others. The group ahead could be seen teeing off on the next whole by all of us.
As long as the group ahead of you is keeping up with the group ahead of them, I don’t see how letting a single through makes much sense. I have notice that slow groups usually will watch each other’s approach shots instead of getting prepared to hit themselves. They will watch their partner take his practice swings, watch him hit, see it land, comment on the shot before they even consider what club they might select. That might be the the behavior that seems like god etiquette, but is actually the opposite.

[ChiTown]

1 hour ago, Carl3 said:

[snip]

It is often hard to judge when to tee off on a par 5. I often use a range finder to see how far ahead the group ahead is. A short par 5 might have approach shots in range of a very good drive. Can you tell if someone is 280 yards out versus 315 yards? Dry conditions on an unfamiliar course can lead to you getting uncomfortably close to the group ahead. I have hit into the group ahead before when I have hit a great shot. Sometimes I now just lay up so as not to tick off the group behind me. Pull out the iron and give myself 50 yards to the pin instead of going for it with a 3 wood. I have altered my game to keep the hot heads behind me from going apoplectic. 

Part of etiquette is giving the group in front of you space and not putting pressure on them when they as well have a group in front of them. I hate playing in front of a group of entitled, impatient people who roll up on every shot the entire round when there is several groups ahead of you locked in a tight series. These people will take it out on the group ahead of them for having a 4-1/2 hour round even though it is something happening well in front. 
I recall standing over a putt once on a short par 4 when a cart comes racing up and screeches on the brakes 50 yards behind me. They guy wanted us to know he hit a great drive and did not appreciate sharing the course with others. The group ahead could be seen teeing off on the next whole by all of us.
As long as the group ahead of you is keeping up with the group ahead of them, I don’t see how letting a single through makes much sense. I have notice that slow groups usually will watch each other’s approach shots instead of getting prepared to hit themselves. They will watch their partner take his practice swings, watch him hit, see it land, comment on the shot before they even consider what club they might select. That might be the the behavior that seems like god etiquette, but is actually the opposite.

@Carl3 you’re exactly on point. Stay within a shot, but don’t crowd the group in front of you.

Regarding my fateful fivesome, the P5 plays about 570 and they were waiting for the group ahead to finish their approach shots. So they were easily 350-400 yards behind them from the tee. And trust me, not a one was going to break 250. And to your point, as the round progressed there was a full hole wide open between them and the foursome ahead of them.

As to fivesomes in general, I don’t mind them if the group knows how to play ready golf, etc