Model Local Rule Rocks and Roots (Please Let Me Know Your Thoughts)

[Themightyoz]

I run tournaments and want to put in a local rule that allows relief from tree roots and rocks that are not loose impediments. We have some really terrible lies in some of our courses in my area and nobody is getting paid enough to break clubs. Let me know if you think the verbage for this rule makes sense.

Local Rule Roots and Rocks

You may move your ball from a tree root or buried rock one club length for free relief no closer to the hole. However you may not use this rule to get relief from a tree, bush, boulder, or other foliage hindering your swing. Your only option here is to play it as it lies or take an unplayable for a one stroke penalty.

[DaveP043]

Have you looked at Model Local Rule F-9 Relief from Tree Roots in or Close to Fairway?  You could extend this to cover exposed rocks.  The rule is recommended to be used only for areas relatively near the fairway, a player who hits a shot 20 yards in the woods doesn't really deserve relief.  

31 minutes ago, Themightyoz said:

nobody is getting paid enough to break clubs

Players can always take Unplayable Ball relief, they're not required to play it from a rock or a root.  Of course, they hate to take the penalty stroke too.

[Themightyoz]

Cool here's my tweak,

"If a player’s ball lies in the general area and there is interference from exposed tree roots or exposed rocks that are in the fairway or 1 club length from the fairway the tree roots and exposed rocks are treated as ground under repair. The player may take free relief under Rule 16.1b.[But relief is not allowed if the tree roots only interfere with the player’s stance.]

[Elmer]

1 hour ago, Themightyoz said:

Cool here's my tweak,

"If a player’s ball lies in the general area and there is interference from exposed tree roots or exposed rocks that are in the fairway or 1 club length from the fairway the tree roots and exposed rocks are treated as ground under repair. The player may take free relief under Rule 16.1b.[But relief is not allowed if the tree roots only interfere with the player’s stance.]

I get trying to limit relief to the fairway, but how many roots do you typically find in the fairway?

Our local rule allows for relief from roots & rocks anywhere on the course (that is in play).
My home course has quite a few 100 year old oaks that separate the fairways.
Lift and move the ball no closer to the hole.
None of us want to damage clubs.

[DaveP043]

31 minutes ago, Elmer said:

I get trying to limit relief to the fairway, but how many roots do you typically find in the fairway?

Our local rule allows for relief from roots & rocks anywhere on the course (that is in play).
My home course has quite a few 100 year old oaks that separate the fairways.
Lift and move the ball no closer to the hole.
None of us want to damage clubs.

In general, granting free relief anywhere on the course isn't recommended.  Similarly, when marking GUR, the VSGA and MAPGA generally don't mark areas that are well away from the intended playing lines, no matter how poor the conditions.  If you hit it far enough offline, you don't necessarily deserve free relief.  And you don't have to damage clubs, take unplayable relief, take the stroke, and drop the ball in a better spot.

[Themightyoz]

3 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

In general, granting free relief anywhere on the course isn't recommended.  Similarly, when marking GUR, the VSGA and MAPGA generally don't mark areas that are well away from the intended playing lines, no matter how poor the conditions.  If you hit it far enough offline, you don't necessarily deserve free relief.  And you don't have to damage clubs, take unplayable relief, take the stroke, and drop the ball in a better spot.

I kind of like this interpretation especially if you think about it the unplayable rule would probably put you in a better spot.  using back on the line releief.

 

[reidsou]

This is a little like a debate in my club in which older players wanted free relief from steep banks for safety reasons. Instead of taking an unplayable lie, as is always an option.  

The debate was finally settled when someone pointed out that Sergio climbed a tree to hit his ball.

It's up to the player to take the penalty if they don't want to play it as it lies.   

[Rulesman]

9 hours ago, reidsou said:

The debate was finally settled when someone pointed out that Sergio climbed a tree to hit his ball.

 

As did Bernhard Langer at Fulford

[saevel25]

On 3/28/2024 at 11:25 AM, Themightyoz said:

Cool here's my tweak,

"If a player’s ball lies in the general area and there is interference from exposed tree roots or exposed rocks that are in the fairway or 1 club length from the fairway the tree roots and exposed rocks are treated as ground under repair. The player may take free relief under Rule 16.1b.[But relief is not allowed if the tree roots only interfere with the player’s stance.]

I would say I am not a fan. Honestly, I never ran into a situation where a tree root was anywhere close to the fairway. I am not a fan of free relief from a natural occurring feature of the course. Guess what, you have an option, unplayable lie. I know people think fairways should be pristine and free of all things that could inhibit your shot. I've played courses were big a** trees overhang a fairway and you have no shot at the green. It happens. If you think you will injure yourself, or do not want to chip out sideways from a root, then take an unplayable lie. 

If you apply this rule, what is stopping someone from not being able to take a right-handed swing to being able to take a swing? A tree could be in the fairway (think hole #18 at Pebble Beach). They are like, I need relief. Now they get to have a shot at the green when the tree is there as an obstruction, something to play around. 

Sorry, I do not think this is a good rule at all. If the course has that many trees, that it comes up a ton. Then vote as a club to have them removed. 

[iacas]

1 hour ago, saevel25 said:

I would say I am not a fan. Honestly, I never ran into a situation where a tree root was anywhere close to the fairway. I am not a fan of free relief from a natural occurring feature of the course. Guess what, you have an option, unplayable lie. I know people think fairways should be pristine and free of all things that could inhibit your shot. I've played courses were big a** trees overhang a fairway and you have no shot at the green. It happens. If you think you will injure yourself, or do not want to chip out sideways from a root, then take an unplayable lie. 

If you apply this rule, what is stopping someone from not being able to take a right-handed swing to being able to take a swing? A tree could be in the fairway (think hole #18 at Pebble Beach). They are like, I need relief. Now they get to have a shot at the green when the tree is there as an obstruction, something to play around. 

Sorry, I do not think this is a good rule at all. If the course has that many trees, that it comes up a ton. Then vote as a club to have them removed. 

So you don't like the MLR F-9?

[dennyjones]

6 hours ago, saevel25 said:

I never ran into a situation where a tree root was anywhere close to the fairway

😲. 

[saevel25]

15 hours ago, dennyjones said:

😲. 

Why is this a shock?

Maybe outside of purposely putting a tree into the fairway (I am taking to you Arthur Hills), all the trees I've encountered had the trunk of the tree like 10-30 yards off the edge of the fairway. Even heavily tree line golf courses. I have never had an instance of a tree root encroaching into the fairway. 

20 hours ago, iacas said:

So you don't like the MLR F-9?

This MLR was unknown to me until this thread was posted. Since it was approved by the USGA, they know more about this than me. 

I can see that it could be considered GUR since it changes typical aspect of a fairway. I could also say, the golf course needs to maybe adjust their fairway cutting or remove the tree if that is the case. 

If a course wants to evoke MLR, then fine. 

[phillyk]

My course has A LOT of tree roots that are in play. Nothing we can do about it. As a municipal, the city is very against cutting any trees down, until absolutely necessary. I didn’t know about this local rule, so good to know. 

[dennyjones]

It's just my opinion, but like a lot of landscapers, trees were planted when they were small w/o taking into consideration their growth 10 / 20 years down the road.   Even some of the resort courses in northern Michigan have tree roots that extend into the fairway.   There are quite a few in my area that mow and trim around the tree roots. 

[GolfLug]

On 3/28/2024 at 1:56 PM, DaveP043 said:

In general, granting free relief anywhere on the course isn't recommended.  Similarly, when marking GUR, the VSGA and MAPGA generally don't mark areas that are well away from the intended playing lines, no matter how poor the conditions.  If you hit it far enough offline, you don't necessarily deserve free relief.  And you don't have to damage clubs, take unplayable relief, take the stroke, and drop the ball in a better spot.

 

23 hours ago, iacas said:

So you don't like the MLR F-9?

Two questions:

1) Is this case by case only or can the committee do a 'general declaration?

2) If former then are they required to mark all the selected cases?

[Rulesman]

27 minutes ago, GolfLug said:

 

Two questions:

1) Is this case by case only or can the committee do a 'general declaration?

2) If former then are they required to mark all the selected cases?

1) They may do either. 

2) No

The wording of the suggested LR is sufficiently variable.

[DaveP043]

32 minutes ago, GolfLug said:

 

Two questions:

1) Is this case by case only or can the committee do a 'general declaration?

2) If former then are they required to mark all the selected cases?

I suggest you read the Model Local Rule to understand better.  The MLR is in effect only if the Committee chooses so.  The rule should be worded to identify which specific areas are impacted.  It could be a simple description, it could identify specific painted areas, certain holes,  there are a number of ways the Committee can define where "root relief" is available.