Plumb Bobbing (Putting) Master Thread

[broomhandle]

Originally Posted by Incognito

What do you see when you plumb bob?

I never got it.  I dont know what I'm looking for...

If you're doing it right in ideal conditions you see the shaft extending through the ball along the line you need to start the ball on. Very nice.

The problem is that getting the pb lined up right can be as difficult as reading the darn putt w/o the pb ;)

[broomhandle]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Ditto.  Sounds like witchcraft or voodoo to me.

Comparing slope to a known vertical is a good engineering principle.

The devil's in the details.

[broomhandle]

Originally Posted by Rulesman

No to both.

Q.Is a plumb-line, i.e., a weight suspended on a string, an artificial device within the meaning of the term in Rule 14-3?

A.Yes. If a player uses such a device to assist him in his play, he is in breach of Rule 14-3.

Thanks. I take it that A. is from  a definitively authoritative source.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by showtime583

I do it sometimes when the break is subtle and I'm looking for confirmation....basically you stand a few feet directly behind your ball. Hold the the putter up in front of your face so that it "hangs freely" and then close one eye. Line the putter shaft and make your ball "disappear".....the off-set of the hole and the shaft is supposed to give you an idea of which direction the putt will break. If both the hole and the ball "disappear", then you have a straight putt.

Originally Posted by broomhandle

If you're doing it right in ideal conditions you see the shaft extending through the ball along the line you need to start the ball on. Very nice.

The problem is that getting the pb lined up right can be as difficult as reading the darn putt w/o the pb ;)

Forgive me for "arguing" with you guys on this, because I just don't understand ...

If you draw a straight line from your open eye through the putter shaft, ball, and then hole, how exactly does the contour of the ground between you and the hole affect that line at all?  Seems like the only variables are where you stand and where you hold the putter shaft, both manipulated by you, and neither a reflection of the ground between your ball and the hole.

[broomhandle]

Originally Posted by sean_miller

Is your long putter the problem? Try a long iron. I plumb bob on the tee box occasionally to aid in aiming and selecting a starting line.

Yep. I think my face balanced ping hangs very close to vertical but I'm not sure how close.

Also the shaft is too fat and too obviously tapered for ideal results.

Longest iron I have is 5 maybe soon to be 6.

I'll have to do some experimenting with a known vertical.

[broomhandle]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Forgive me for "arguing" with you guys on this, because I just don't understand ...

If you draw a straight line from your open eye through the putter shaft, ball, and then hole, how exactly does the contour of the ground between you and the hole affect that line at all?  Seems like the only variables are where you stand and where you hold the putter shaft, both manipulated by you, and neither a reflection of the ground between your ball and the hole.

Hey, if you've seen me in other threads you know I have NO problem with arguing.  :)

You have to stand 90* to the slope you're on or at least get your eyes in that position. Then your view along the target line is 90 degrees to the slope. The putter is zero degrees to gravity. The difference is slope/break.

Put another way you have to get in a position where the putt looks level to your eyes. Then introduce the plumb and see that that picture really isn't in line with a true vertical.

Alternatively, if you can visualize the slope 90 degrees across the putt as a geometric line you can see if the vertical shaft intersects that at 90 degrees. The brain is amazingly good at seeing 90 degree angles.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by broomhandle

Can I carry  a string with a nut on it to plumb bob my putts?

If not, how about if I just happen to have my house keys on a chain?

First of all it's a waste of time - second, both of your ideas would be contrary to the rules.

Originally Posted by broomhandle

Hey, if you've seen me in other threads you know I have NO problem with arguing. :)

You have to stand 90* to the slope you're on or at least get your eyes in that position. Then your view along the target line is 90 degrees to the slope. The putter is zero degrees to gravity. The difference is slope/break.

Put another way you have to get in a position where the putt looks level to your eyes. Then introduce the plumb and see that that picture really isn't in line with a true vertical.

Alternatively, if you can visualize the slope 90 degrees across the putt as a geometric line you can see if the vertical shaft intersects that at 90 degrees. The brain is amazingly good at seeing 90 degree angles.

It's only of any use at all if the slope is consistent all the way to the hole.  And it's very difficult for most to stand as required on a subtle slope, so they are just about as likely to get a false read anyway.  For any significant slope, it's an unnecessary redundancy.  I've watched a lot of guys plumb bob and never seen one read a green any better than those of us who don't, myself included.

[iacas]

Plumb bobbing does not work. Period. It doesn't show you a damn thing. You can make left-to-right putts appear to go the other way and vice versa. Think about it.

The ONLY thing plumb bobbing can help you do is to provide (if you do it properly, and know the CG of your putter, because almost no putters hang perfectly straight anyway) a vertical reference line so your eyes can try to make sense of the slopes on the greens.

Outside of that, all this "close one eye" stuff is just hooey crap. Sorry, that's the fact of the matter. It makes absolutely no logical sense whatsoever. Believe it if you want - maybe if you think you read the putt better you'll play better - but you may as well believe in the tooth fairy while you're at it.

[sean_miller]

I can't comment on plumb bobbing to read the slope on the green. The more I read the less I know what I'm reading. My comment related to using the shaft of a club as a straight edge to line up target in the distance with immediate targets for aligning the clubface and swing path. I typically do it on the tee but have done it on the green when I'm struggling to focus on a starting line. I have vision issues.

[Rulesman]

Originally Posted by broomhandle

Thanks. I take it that A. is from  a definitively authoritative source.

From the top. It is decision 14-3/11

[GaijinGolfer]

Originally Posted by iacas

Plumb bobbing does not work. Period. It doesn't show you a damn thing. You can make left-to-right putts appear to go the other way and vice versa. Think about it.

The ONLY thing plumb bobbing can help you do is to provide (if you do it properly, and know the CG of your putter, because almost no putters hang perfectly straight anyway) a vertical reference line so your eyes can try to make sense of the slopes on the greens.

Outside of that, all this "close one eye" stuff is just hooey crap. Sorry, that's the fact of the matter. It makes absolutely no logical sense whatsoever. Believe it if you want - maybe if you think you read the putt better you'll play better - but you may as well believe in the tooth fairy while you're at it.

^This.  Plumb bobbing doesnt work.

[broomhandle]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fourputt

It's only of any use at all if the slope is consistent all the way to the hole.  And it's very difficult for most to stand as required on a subtle slope, so they are just about as likely to get a false read anyway.

Setting aside the authoritative bluster in several posts these are the REAL problems in spite of the basic principle being perfectly sound.

You can apply the method multiple times but you have to first have a good idea that there are multiple slopes.

Most people just look at the line 2-dimensionally put up the plumb and say 'I'm getting nothing'. Yep, do anything wrong and it doesn't work.

You have to start with a proper 3-dimensional look which can be close to the same thing as reading the putt without the plumb.

IF you built a mechanical device that applied the principle correctly every time it would read every single slope putt correctly.

Quote:

I've watched a lot of guys plumb bob and never seen one read a green any better than those of us who don't, myself included.

I'm not looking for better. I'd be thrilled with as well. Many times I've had no idea just looking but got a decent read from the plumb bob.

[Ernest Jones]

If authoritative bluster is not to your tastes, you may have chosen the wrong place to hang out.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by iacas

Plumb bobbing does not work. Period. It doesn't show you a damn thing. You can make left-to-right putts appear to go the other way and vice versa. Think about it.

The ONLY thing plumb bobbing can help you do is to provide (if you do it properly, and know the CG of your putter, because almost no putters hang perfectly straight anyway) a vertical reference line so your eyes can try to make sense of the slopes on the greens.

Outside of that, all this "close one eye" stuff is just hooey crap. Sorry, that's the fact of the matter. It makes absolutely no logical sense whatsoever. Believe it if you want - maybe if you think you read the putt better you'll play better - but you may as well believe in the tooth fairy while you're at it.

OK.  This is what common sense was telling me, I just know that I've seen so many (tour pros included) doing it that maybe there was something to it.  Sounds like it's just a pyschological issue for the player then.  Sort of along the same lines of "It's better to be confident in your read or club choice, than it is to be 'right.'"

[broomhandle]

Originally Posted by Ernest Jones

If authoritative bluster is not to your tastes, you may have chosen the wrong place to hang out.

A thought I have had myself.

[Chipless]

Originally Posted by Ernest Jones

If authoritative bluster is not to your tastes, you may have chosen the wrong place to hang out.

This post made me laugh outloud. Nice one!

[zipazoid]

Originally Posted by iacas

Plumb bobbing does not work. Period. It doesn't show you a damn thing. You can make left-to-right putts appear to go the other way and vice versa. Think about it.

The ONLY thing plumb bobbing can help you do is to provide (if you do it properly, and know the CG of your putter, because almost no putters hang perfectly straight anyway) a vertical reference line so your eyes can try to make sense of the slopes on the greens.

Outside of that, all this "close one eye" stuff is just hooey crap. Sorry, that's the fact of the matter. It makes absolutely no logical sense whatsoever. Believe it if you want - maybe if you think you read the putt better you'll play better - but you may as well believe in the tooth fairy while you're at it.

Then why do some pros do it?

I plumb-bob if I can't get a good read otherwise. Sometimes I use it to just make up my mind; for example, if I think the putt breaks left I'll bob it to confirm.

I get you think it's worthless, but if a player thinks it isn't, what's the harm in it? Golfers have a lot of habits that would appear worthless. In my case it takes out uncertainty - if the bob says it goes left then I feel more confident in my read. That's not a bad thing.

[dsc123]

Originally Posted by broomhandle

Hey, if you've seen me in other threads you know I have NO problem with arguing.  :)

You have to stand 90* to the slope you're on or at least get your eyes in that position. Then your view along the target line is 90 degrees to the slope. The putter is zero degrees to gravity. The difference is slope/break.

Put another way you have to get in a position where the putt looks level to your eyes. Then introduce the plumb and see that that picture really isn't in line with a true vertical.

Alternatively, if you can visualize the slope 90 degrees across the putt as a geometric line you can see if the vertical shaft intersects that at 90 degrees. The brain is amazingly good at seeing 90 degree angles.

So the idea is that the club gives you a line that is straight up and down, and then you judge whether the green to the left of the club is higher or lower than the green to the right of the club?  So a flat read would be perpendicular, and you can sort of estimate degrees from perpendicular?