20+ handicappers hitting 300 yards (mild rant)

[coachjimsc]

Im not positive but I think they do, I wasn't fortunate e ought to play with upperclassmen very much. Also when I say 300 easily I mean when the don't miss the golf course. I've played behind a few of them and they seem to hit a lot of hazards,(even with 3 woods), so that may add alot to the scores. Also if I remember correctly that was a miserable day,(you can look at the other scores because I'm not entirely sure). I know Brad, Michael, Spencer(hits it 250), and Victor average in the 70's.

I played as an 8th grader in the Spring.

I checked the weather for those days. Looked pretty nice to me. It was even nicer on the 14th.

I have played Furman many times. Has some long holes, very open for the most part. You would think long hitters would score pretty well there.

[Jeremie Boop]

The discussion gets off topic a lot. It was originally about people who are 20+ hc claiming to hit 300 yd drives and how the OP felt that was not plausible. This discussion about HS students who play on the team hitting over 300 makes no difference in the context of the thread because they are not high handicap players. It's also been taking off topic to people saying that it's claimed 300 yd average claims that are the problem. That is a different subject IMO because that is very much unlikely for people of higher handicaps, but the occasional drive or ability to hit one or 2 drives per round out to that distance is very possible.

[Lihu]

Yes, it did end up going there. Someone doubted Nick's distance claims stating that no high school students can hit that far, then I chimed in and defended that some do, and got berated for that. Back to topic. I hit a 300 yard downhill drive! Feels cool looking down into a valley and thumping a ball into the distance.

[Jeremie Boop]

Yes, it did end up going there. Someone doubted Nick's distance claims stating that no high school students can hit that far, then I chimed in and defended that some do, and got berated for that.

Back to topic. I hit a 300 yard downhill drive! Feels cool looking down into a valley and thumping a ball into the distance.

I find that the typical arguments against anyone being able to hit the ball 300 is "I can't hit it that far","I couldn't hit it that far until I reached x handicap", or "The pros only hit it x far on average". None of those things mean anything about how another person is able to hit the ball.

[Lihu]

I find that the typical arguments against anyone being able to hit the ball 300 is "I can't hit it that far","I couldn't hit it that far until I reached x handicap", or "The pros only hit it x far on average". None of those things mean anything about how another person is able to hit the ball.

We're all different. :-) :-) :-)

[bplewis24]

Even GPS is flawed, how do you measure a driving distance? Is it the actual distance a ball travels, or the horizontal distance down the fairway. What if the fairway bends? You can hit a ball that goes 300 yards, and if it curves 30 yards right, do you discard that 30 yards of distance? The ball still traveled that distance in the air, and still had the ball speed required for 300 yards.

Yes, you discard that 30 yards of distance.  GPS is point-to-point, on a straight line.

[saevel25]

Still is that the distance the ball actually traveled? I can draw a straight point between me and the next town over, but that doesn't mean that's the distance i am going to travel. Its the smallest possible if i was able to travel that far. Here's what i am getting at. Doesn't matter if GPS says 300 yards, 280 yards, 240 yards. All that matters is ball speed. If bubba hits a 310 yards drive that curves 40 yards, and he hits a 350 yards straight drive. Lets say the ball speed is the same. Who cares if one came up 30 yards shorter on the straight line measurement. The ball traveled nearly the same distance in the air, one just curved. You don't measure a curve line with a straight line. Do we say, "Oh bubba can't hit it 350 yards". That is just stupid. Of course he can hit it 350 yards, his ball speed says he can. Just because he curves the ball doesn't mean we should say he can't hit the max yardage his ball speed indicates.

[theworldengine]

I find that the typical arguments against anyone being able to hit the ball 300 is "I can't hit it that far","I couldn't hit it that far until I reached x handicap", or "The pros only hit it x far on average". None of those things mean anything about how another person is able to hit the ball.

The problem we have is anecdotal stories that contradict statistics and basic logic. And this is rooted in ignorance of real yardages and illusory superiority. Like saying an abnormally high percentage of HS kids in my league can hit 300 easy. When meticulous study of tour pros proves that those guys don't hit 300 easy. Logic would say these HSers are not hitting it that well when the best players in the world aren't. I mean jfc I think we have gotten to the point where no one believes a 20 hcp can average 300, so that's progress

[Slice of Life]

Still is that the distance the ball actually traveled? I can draw a straight point between me and the next town over, but that doesn't mean that's the distance i am going to travel. Its the smallest possible if i was able to travel that far.

Here's what i am getting at. Doesn't matter if GPS says 300 yards, 280 yards, 240 yards. All that matters is ball speed. If bubba hits a 310 yards drive that curves 40 yards, and he hits a 350 yards straight drive. Lets say the ball speed is the same. Who cares if one came up 30 yards shorter on the straight line measurement. The ball traveled nearly the same distance in the air, one just curved. You don't measure a curve line with a straight line. Do we say, "Oh bubba can't hit it 350 yards". That is just stupid. Of course he can hit it 350 yards, his ball speed says he can. Just because he curves the ball doesn't mean we should say he can't hit the max yardage his ball speed indicates.

I get what you're saying, but I still disagree.

If I slice the hell out of a ball, its straight line distance might be 220. Sure, it traveled 280 yards, but it's a 220 yard drive. Drive distance is a straight line.

Just like when Bubba hit a HUGE fade that went something like 364 yards...it was actually 364 yards from where he was standing on the tee box, the ball actually traveled further.

[Slice of Life]

The problem we have is anecdotal stories that contradict statistics and basic logic. And this is rooted in ignorance of real yardages and illusory superiority. Like saying an abnormally high percentage of HS kids in my league can hit 300 easy. When meticulous study of tour pros proves that those guys don't hit 300 easy. Logic would say these HSers are not hitting it that well when the best players in the world aren't. I mean jfc

I tend to agree. Can I hit a 300 yard bomb? Sure. Is it easy? Absolutely not. For every 300 yard bomb, there are six 230 yard slices.

[Jeremie Boop]

The problem we have is anecdotal stories that contradict statistics and basic logic. And this is rooted in ignorance of real yardages and illusory superiority. Like saying an abnormally high percentage of HS kids in my league can hit 300 easy. When meticulous study of tour pros proves that those guys don't hit 300 easy. Logic would say these HSers are not hitting it that well when the best players in the world aren't. I mean jfc

A lot of tour pros could hit 300 yd drives on demand if they wanted to. They sacrifice some distance for control which those kids in HS typically won't, same as most of us amatures. I don't base my distances off of guesses anymore, I use gps measurement to get as accurate a measurement as possible. Also, the average distance for drives on the PGA go up pretty much every year right? So doesn't it stand to reason that there are more kids who are in HS and College averaging a bit longer? Also, you are going back to arguing about people who have much lower than 20 hc that this thread is actually about. If you want to argue about whether the claims that HS students are actually hitting the ball as far as claimed make a new thread and discuss it there, it has pretty much nothing to do with this thread's topic.

[nick1998bunker]

I tend to agree. Can I hit a 300 yard bomb? Sure. Is it easy? Absolutely not. For every 300 yard bomb, there are six 230 yard slices.

One thing that may be different about our games is the range of distance, for must lie hdcpers your not gonna just hit one really far unless its downwind/down hill. And if I hit a bad one its still 260 down there and a normal one is over 270. So not including shanks, a good drive is still about average for that person.

[Slice of Life]

One thing that may be different about our games is the range of distance, for must lie hdcpers your not gonna just hit one really far unless its downwind/down hill. And if I hit a bad one its still 260 down there and a normal one is over 270. So not including shanks, a good drive is still about average for that person.

Ok, I don't know what a lie hdcper is...but if you slice or hook a ball, it's not going 260 yards at 5'2" and like 110 lbs. If at that size, your bad drive is 260 yards, your short game must be horrendous.

[Fourputt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fourputt

So, you are getting those distances from the hole length on the scorecard?  That's irrelevant.  It's more accurate to measure on Google Earth than to use the card distances.  The only way to get close is with a good GPS which has a "mark" feature which allows you to measure a specific shot from the point were it's struck to the point where it ends up.  Even then measuring carry distance is difficult unless the ball leaves an identifiable mark in the fairway.

Even GPS is flawed, how do you measure a driving distance? Is it the actual distance a ball travels, or the horizontal distance down the fairway. What if the fairway bends? You can hit a ball that goes 300 yards, and if it curves 30 yards right, do you discard that 30 yards of distance? The ball still traveled that distance in the air, and still had the ball speed required for 300 yards.

But i agree that looking at the scorecard is wrong. I've found most courses either measure there distances from the back of the tee box, the center of the tee box, or the front of the tee box, depending on the tees you use. So, that means the tees could 10-20 yards up. That's huge when you say, I hit it 300, versus 280.

The only flaw in GPS measurement is that it has a small error factor.  That factor is greatly reduced when the readings are taken within a short time span from each other, as in measuring a shot.

Still is that the distance the ball actually traveled? I can draw a straight point between me and the next town over, but that doesn't mean that's the distance i am going to travel. Its the smallest possible if i was able to travel that far.

Here's what i am getting at. Doesn't matter if GPS says 300 yards, 280 yards, 240 yards. All that matters is ball speed. If bubba hits a 310 yards drive that curves 40 yards, and he hits a 350 yards straight drive. Lets say the ball speed is the same. Who cares if one came up 30 yards shorter on the straight line measurement. The ball traveled nearly the same distance in the air, one just curved. You don't measure a curve line with a straight line. Do we say, "Oh bubba can't hit it 350 yards". That is just stupid. Of course he can hit it 350 yards, his ball speed says he can. Just because he curves the ball doesn't mean we should say he can't hit the max yardage his ball speed indicates.

Yes, it is the distance.  You are way overthinking this.  The length of a drive (or any shot) is the distance between where the ball was struck and where it ended up.  How it got there is irrelevant.  The measurement is taken on a straight line.  Nothing else makes any sense at all.   Shots are not measured on a curve.  That is just crazy thinking.

[RandallT]

The discussion gets off topic a lot. It was originally about people who are 20+ hc claiming to hit 300 yd drives and how the OP felt that was not plausible. This discussion about HS students who play on the team hitting over 300 makes no difference in the context of the thread because they are not high handicap players. It's also been taking off topic to people saying that it's claimed 300 yd average claims that are the problem. That is a different subject IMO because that is very much unlikely for people of higher handicaps, but the occasional drive or ability to hit one or 2 drives per round out to that distance is very possible.

Here, you are wrong. The original topic was that high handicappers claim they "AVERAGE" 300 yard drives. He even put the "average" in all caps. I agree with the ranter totally. It is an absurd claim, and anyone who makes it should be mocked mercilessly. I have seen high handicappers hit 300. Big deal. But average? Ha.

Yes, it did end up going there. Someone doubted Nick's distance claims stating that no high school students can hit that far, then I chimed in and defended that some do, and got berated for that.

Sorry, but you have mis-stated the objections to Nick's claim. Nobody said that "no high school students can hit that far." Nick's claim was that his teammates could carry the ball 290/290/300 with no problem, implying good accuracy. Those were his words. If I can do something "no problem," then I can do it fairly easily and that's likely my average (or not far from it). Semantics I know. But the key was the long carries of his teammate were "no problem."  Then the results for his team came in, completely undermining the claim, and Nick confessed that they do not hit very straight or practice that much.

I simply could not believe that 3 players on just one high school team could carry the ball that far so easily. When I extrapolated that to the whole country, that means that many thousands of kids can out-drive our professionals. (yes those average driving stats on pga.com are for drivers, predominantly. They don't pick two holes that have layups!!  Someone will have to prove to me that Gary Woodland's average includes a lot of 4 iron layups, as I do not think that is the case).

If someone chooses to believe that there is a high school team where the top 3 players can carry the ball 290/290/300 with no problem, then fine. I'll just chuckle and think you are extremely gullible and we can both go on our merry way.

[Jeremie Boop]

Here, you are wrong. The original topic was that high handicappers claim they "AVERAGE" 300 yard drives. He even put the "average" in all caps. I agree with the ranter totally. It is an absurd claim, and anyone who makes it should be mocked mercilessly. I have seen high handicappers hit 300. Big deal. But average? Ha.

Sorry, it's been awhile since I read the original post so it's possible I mis remembered, but the thread title doesn't indicate it being the average so I've started erring towards the title. Regardless, this doesn't extend to the discussion/argument about the HS students. I do disagree that "easily" means that it's something that's done all the time though. I can easily hit 290-300 yd drives but I don't do it every time and it's definitely not my average. This, of course, is something that's not going to be shared by everyone as the way it should be viewed.

[Lihu]

Here, you are wrong. The original topic was that high handicappers claim they "AVERAGE" 300 yard drives. He even put the "average" in all caps. I agree with the ranter totally. It is an absurd claim, and anyone who makes it should be mocked mercilessly. I have seen high handicappers hit 300. Big deal. But average? Ha.  Sorry, but you have mis-stated the objections to Nick's claim. Nobody said that "no high school students can hit that far." Nick's claim was that his teammates could carry the ball 290/290/300 with no problem, implying good accuracy. Those were his words. If I can do something "no problem," then I can do it fairly easily and that's likely my average (or not far from it). Semantics I know. But the key was the long carries of his teammate were "no problem."  Then the results for his team came in, completely undermining the claim, and Nick confessed that they do not hit very straight or practice that much. I simply could not believe that 3 players on just one high school team could carry the ball that far so easily. When I extrapolated that to the whole country, that means that many thousands of kids can out-drive our professionals. (yes those average driving stats on pga.com are for drivers, predominantly. They don't pick two holes that have layups!!  Someone will have to prove to me that Gary Woodland's average includes a lot of 4 iron layups, as I do not think that is the case).   If someone chooses to believe that there is a high school team where the top 3 players can carry the ball 290/290/300 with no problem, then fine. I'll just chuckle and think you are extremely gullible and we can both go on our merry way.

Yes, I agree it's rare for all players in a high school to hit that far. Statistically, low chance. I suppose I take on the more trusting (gullible) view of things. It doesn't hurt me to think what they say is true or not, just that other things they might suggest need to be based upon it. If they are consistent, they probably did not lie about it. Obviously, some might just believe what they state without a real foundation and still be consistent. It all boils down trust and intentions to being honest. You really can't prove one way or another without seeing things for yourself.

[RandallT]

Sorry, it's been awhile since I read the original post so it's possible I mis remembered, but the thread title doesn't indicate it being the average so I've started erring towards the title. Regardless, this doesn't extend to the discussion/argument about the HS students. I do disagree that "easily" means that it's something that's done all the time though. I can easily hit 290-300 yd drives but I don't do it every time and it's definitely not my average. This, of course, is something that's not going to be shared by everyone as the way it should be viewed.

No prob. Then I guess we're not that far off. I have no doubt those guys are bombers, and that lots of bombers exist. It'll take a lot for me to believe that high schoolers can match pro stats. Maybe the PGA stats are flawed? I don't know, but they are published by the PGA, so I'll believe them.