20+ handicappers hitting 300 yards (mild rant)

[Fairway_CY]

1 hour ago, klineka said:

Theres a huge difference between one drive out of 30 going 300 yards, and consistently being able to hit 300 yards relatively in line with your target and in play

This is my experience almost 100% of the time.  

My average drive is about 235 yards.  I'm nowhere near long off the tee... but I'm also nowhere near short.  That 235 yard average accounts for 200 yard shots that bounce off the trees and 285 yard 'bombs' with the wind.  When I play at the club I belong to currently, I'm about 15-20 yards shorter than most of the guys I play with and then there are guys who are 50-70 yards longer than me.  

There are always a few who will hit it about even with me throughout the day... then they'll catch one just right that will go 275.  That almost inevitably brings out the 'I average about 280' talk.  They bring up that one drive per round that they catch on the center of the face.  That makes them 'average' 280 off the tee.  

Like @klineka mentioned above... there's a massive difference between that one drive going 280 and the other 13 going 230.  That means you average one 280 yard drive per round, maybe... but you certainly don't average 280 off the tee.

Distance is overrated in low-level amateur golf, in my opinion.  The funny thing is watching some of the guys who bomb it get angry when they play with someone who hits it an average distance but regularly outscores them.  One of the guys we play with frequently hits it about the same distance that I do... maybe even a little shorter.  He's ridiculous on and around the greens, though.  It's always fun to watch him get in the head of other people who are driving it 280 and he's sitting 50 yards behind them but making birdies.  

CY

[Vinsk]

45 minutes ago, Fairway_CY said:

Distance is overrated in low-level amateur golf, in my opinion.  The funny thing is watching some of the guys who bomb it get angry when they play with someone who hits it an average distance but regularly outscores them.  One of the guys we play with frequently hits it about the same distance that I do... maybe even a little shorter.  He's ridiculous on and around the greens, though.  It's always fun to watch him get in the head of other people who are driving it 280 and he's sitting 50 yards behind them but making birdies.

This scenario may appear to be occurring, but I doubt that's all there is to it. Anyone would take a shot from the rough than a ball in the fairway if it's sitting 50yds closer to the hole. The guys who bomb it must have either awful ball striking skills with their irons, or they consistently hit atrocious drives, OB, hazards, pot bunkers, etc. Distance is not overrated. Imagine if your short knocker friend was 30-50yds closer than he is now. Distance is key unless you are consistently hitting drives so bad as mentioned above. If the bomber guys ever hit a fairway, then your short knocker would struggle to beat them on those holes, unless as I said before, they are horrific every time off the tee.

[JonMA1]

1 hour ago, Fairway_CY said:

Distance is overrated in low-level amateur golf, in my opinion.

If by "low-level" you're talking about bogey golf or higher, I agree. Lack of distance is rarely the reason I get outscored. 

1 hour ago, Vinsk said:

The guys who bomb it must have either awful ball striking skills with their irons, or they consistently hit atrocious drives, OB, hazards, pot bunkers, etc

Again, if low-level amateur golf refers to high handicappers, awful ball striking skills and atrocious drives are very common.

I know almost nothing about golf at the level you play @Vinsk, but I know a bit about the game at my level.

I can imagine how distance can be the difference among a competitors who all minimize mistakes and can easily bounce back from the minor errors.

At my level (and admittedly from my limited experience), I have to respectfully disagree that distance is an automatic advantage. My opponents who have made less mistakes than me have overwhelmingly scored better - even when I'm out driving them or pulling less club for the same distance.

When player A can control his 200 yard club better than player B, he is going to win. Makes little difference whether player A needs a longer club than B for that 200 yards.

Distance is only an advantage with all else being close to equal, imo.

[Vinsk]

1 hour ago, JonMA1 said:

If by "low-level" you're talking about bogey golf or higher, I agree. Lack of distance is rarely the reason I get outscored. 

Again, if low-level amateur golf refers to high handicappers, awful ball striking skills and atrocious drives are very common.

I know almost nothing about golf at the level you play @Vinsk, but I know a bit about the game at my level.

I can imagine how distance can be the difference among a competitors who all minimize mistakes and can easily bounce back from the minor errors.

At my level (and admittedly from my limited experience), I have to respectfully disagree that distance is an automatic advantage. My opponents who have made less mistakes than me have overwhelmingly scored better - even when I'm out driving them or pulling less club for the same distance.

When player A can control his 200 yard club better than player B, he is going to win. Makes little difference whether player A needs a longer club than B for that 200 yards.

Distance is only an advantage with all else being close to equal, imo.

I read your post as saying that two players of similar hcp were playing and that the bombers were being beaten by the short knockers who keep it in the fairway. That I don't agree with. Obviously if I could out drive @iacas by 50yds even in the fairway he could still whip me solid in a match. If your short knockers consistently hit a 3+ longer club better  than your bombers wedge/9i, then I doubt they are similar hcps. That's why I said there must be more to it than that.

Edited September 7, 2017 by Vinsk

[Lihu]

1 hour ago, JonMA1 said:

If by "low-level" you're talking about bogey golf or higher, I agree. Lack of distance is rarely the reason I get outscored. 

Again, if low-level amateur golf refers to high handicappers, awful ball striking skills and atrocious drives are very common.

I know almost nothing about golf at the level you play @Vinsk, but I know a bit about the game at my level.

I can imagine how distance can be the difference among a competitors who all minimize mistakes and can easily bounce back from the minor errors.

At my level (and admittedly from my limited experience), I have to respectfully disagree that distance is an automatic advantage. My opponents who have made less mistakes than me have overwhelmingly scored better - even when I'm out driving them or pulling less club for the same distance.

When player A can control his 200 yard club better than player B, he is going to win. Makes little difference whether player A needs a longer club than B for that 200 yards.

Distance is only an advantage with all else being close to equal, imo.

If all else is equal the longer hitter is definitely going to be better. That's kind of a proven fact. It's just a matter of how much better.

By longer hitter, to be a valid argument should be by at least a club or two which means about 2 to 3 clubs less on the approaches. Otherwise the players are basically hitting the "same" distances.

[downbylaw11]

since I posted in this topic, I actually saw a 300+ yard driver at the range for the first time.  well i must clarify, Im pretty sure he was hitting it 300.  the fence is supposed to be 250-260, but he was mashing it and had to have been carrying it half way up the fence, or more it seemed. the ball was simply disappearing of his face, but then again he was definitely not a 20+ handicapper.  he was however kind of a fat guy, so he had the obvious power source.  I'm still very doubtful of the 20+ handicappers who say they hit 300.  the one guy i know who told me he hit 300, was not an incredibly athletic guy, and probably only about 5'9 160, and in his downtime from work, he smoked a ton of weed and drank a lot, and talked about 9/11 conspiracies all day and how the government assassinated britney murphy.  anyways, hard to take a guy like that at his word of hitting it 300 yard drives....... ever, unless he described himself as a pretty good golfer.  you gotta do everything right in a golf swing to get that kinda distance,(in my opinion), so I feel like if you were able to hit it that far, you'd probably have the ability to repeat a decent golf swing enough that you'd be far better than a 20 handicap. im just talking out my ass though 

[MattD]

22 minutes ago, downbylaw11 said:

since I posted in this topic, I actually saw a 300+ yard driver at the range for the first time.  well i must clarify, Im pretty sure he was hitting it 300.  the fence is supposed to be 250-260, but he was mashing it and had to have been carrying it half way up the fence, or more it seemed. the ball was simply disappearing of his face, but then again he was definitely not a 20+ handicapper.  he was however kind of a fat guy, so he had the obvious power source.  I'm still very doubtful of the 20+ handicappers who say they hit 300.  the one guy i know who told me he hit 300, was not an incredibly athletic guy, and probably only about 5'9 160, and in his downtime from work, he smoked a ton of weed and drank a lot, and talked about 9/11 conspiracies all day and how the government assassinated britney murphy.  anyways, hard to take a guy like that at his word of hitting it 300 yard drives....... ever, unless he described himself as a pretty good golfer.  you gotta do everything right in a golf swing to get that kinda distance,(in my opinion), so I feel like if you were able to hit it that far, you'd probably have the ability to repeat a decent golf swing enough that you'd be far better than a 20 handicap. im just talking out my ass though 

Well I have to say your post tells me a number of things:

1. You live life with your eyes closed; and

2. you are a typical jealous golfer who can't hit a ball very far - hitting 300 yards is not hard.

I say that because heaps of players good and bad can hit 300 'yards' and the only ones who say they can't are the ones who do play off better than 20 handicaps and can't hit it more than pathetic 220- 240 yards. 

My handicap is 28;  I often drive off the tee 300 meters which is 330 yards and my best is 350m which is about 380 yards ( had a very good tail wind assisting that day). Now the reason for my rant is I have noticed how better players HATE, and I mean HATE  being outdriven by a high handicap ( 20+) player even though they will easily win the game by often more than 10-20 strokes as they should. But their small penis ego hates to see the newbie less experienced player tee off and the ball is still rising as it powers past their shot by over a hundred yards

So let me say this about when you say - "It's not the size that counts"... we all know you have a small dick, and when we a hear you say " 20+ handicappers can't hit 300 yards", we all know you can't hit 200 yards AND you probably have a small dick as well.

 

But after you say it ... we won't say a thing, we will just smile to ourselves...

 

[downbylaw11]

40 minutes ago, MattD said:

Well I have to say your post tells me a number of things:

1. You live life with your eyes closed; and

2. you are a typical jealous golfer who can't hit a ball very far - hitting 300 yards is not hard.

I say that because heaps of players good and bad can hit 300 'yards' and the only ones who say they can't are the ones who do play off better than 20 handicaps and can't hit it more than pathetic 220- 240 yards. 

My handicap is 28;  I often drive off the tee 300 meters which is 330 yards and my best is 350m which is about 380 yards ( had a very good tail wind assisting that day). Now the reason for my rant is I have noticed how better players HATE, and I mean HATE  being outdriven by a high handicap ( 20+) player even though they will easily win the game by often more than 10-20 strokes as they should. But their small penis ego hates to see the newbie less experienced player tee off and the ball is still rising as it powers past their shot by over a hundred yards

So let me say this about when you say - "It's not the size that counts"... we all know you have a small dick, and when we a hear you say " 20+ handicappers can't hit 300 yards", we all know you can't hit 200 yards AND you probably have a small dick as well.

 

But after you say it ... we won't say a thing, we will just smile to ourselves...

 

lol wow.  so many things wrong with your post.  i already explained in a previous post that im am jealous as **** of anyone who can hit it 300 yards.  ive also explained that the only reason i don't believe any of these guys who say it, is because ive just flat out never seen it.  ive never seen a hacker do it at the range, ive never seen the guys who claim to do it, do it, so why should i believe them? prove me wrong hoss, upload a video of yourself hitting '330' meters with ease while also sucking at golf, which apparently you do

 

also, i can definitely hit it 200 yards.  i already also explained in a previous post that despite being 5'7 145, i regularly carry 250 off the tee, and hit fairways. but yeah, i certainly wish I hit it further than I do.

 

you say hitting 300 is not hard, and also say your handicap is 28.  you know what i think isnt hard? breaking 90 you dickhead.

[Lihu]

We should be more cordial with our responses. . .

It's normal for people to doubt the 300+ yard driving high handicap, but not improbable.People can play as crappy as they want. Some people play golf just because they enjoy making long tee shots. Some people are naturally gifted in swinging fast, but have not bothered to learn to play the complete game. This is very rare, but possible.

20+ HC is not that far from bogey, 3 putting is not that uncommon either. Combine shanked shots with 3 putts and you could easily be 20 over.

[Xunzi]

So much animosity. When I play golf, I really dont care if I somebody outdrives me or scores better while driving short - good for them - I focus on my own game. And I rarely, if ever, play with people who cares much about my striking either, more than as a matter of politeness and maybe curiosity. Sounds like a complete joy kill to have that negative energy on the golf course.

Also, the "if you have the swing to bomb it, you have the swing to nail it" is clearly false. That's what it all comes down to. 

[MattD]

3 hours ago, downbylaw11 said:

lol wow.  so many things wrong with your post.  i already explained in a previous post that im am jealous as **** of anyone who can hit it 300 yards.  ive also explained that the only reason i don't believe any of these guys who say it, is because ive just flat out never seen it.  ive never seen a hacker do it at the range, ive never seen the guys who claim to do it, do it, so why should i believe them? prove me wrong hoss, upload a video of yourself hitting '330' meters with ease while also sucking at golf, which apparently you do

 

also, i can definitely hit it 200 yards.  i already also explained in a previous post that despite being 5'7 145, i regularly carry 250 off the tee, and hit fairways. but yeah, i certainly wish I hit it further than I do.

 

you say hitting 300 is not hard, and also say your handicap is 28.  you know what i think isnt hard? breaking 90 you dickhead.

Arrr now appears the smile ... I'll say nothing more 

[RussUK]

Im with @Lihu on this in regards to more cordial responses as this thread is running the risk of descending into school yard insults.

Can a 20+ hit it 300? sure why not. Do some scratch players struggle to hit it 300? probably. Does it matter in the grand scheme of things? no, not really.

This whole fixation on hitting it long is getting ridiculous. Im a short hitter but have a pretty decent short game and my putting isnt too shabby so they balance out my shortness off the tee somewhat.

I'd say im about average in length (in every respect ) 

[JonMA1]

8 hours ago, Vinsk said:

I read your post as saying that two players of similar hcp were playing and that the bombers were being beaten by the short knockers who keep it in the fairway. That I don't agree with. Obviously if I could out drive @iacas by 50yds even in the fairway he could still whip me solid in a match. If your short knockers consistently hit a 3+ longer club better  than your bombers wedge/9i, then I doubt they are similar hcps. That's why I said there must be more to it than that.

I was talking about players at my level. And I'm not talking about fairway vs the rough. I agree with that 20 yards closer with a decent lie in the rough is preferable.

I'm talking about a short knocker who keeps it in play vs a long hitter who is wild enough to hit some out of bounds, has trouble hitting greens, has a poor sand game... things you'll often see with players above bogey golf.

If two players are of similar hcp, there are many possibilities as to why they are at that level. In theory, neither is better.

8 hours ago, Lihu said:

If all else is equal the longer hitter is definitely going to be better. That's kind of a proven fact. It's just a matter of how much better.

Yes, that's what I stated. But when two players have similar HC and one hits longer, all things are not equal.

Any advantage I hold in distance is lost when I hit a ball out of bounds - not in the rough. It's also lost when I miss a 2' putt, or take 2 strokes to get out the sand.

8 hours ago, Lihu said:

By longer hitter, to be a valid argument should be by at least a club or two which means about 2 to 3 clubs less on the approaches. Otherwise the players are basically hitting the "same" distances.

I didn't know this was quantified. To me, needing one club less to hit the same distance means you're longer.

[PaddyMac]

Golf is about who can get the ball into the whole in the least amount of shots. It doesn't matter how you get there.... how long or short the drive was how good or bad putting is after that, bottom line is if you get the ball in the hole in fewer strokes than I do, then you beat me.

As I said earlier I started last year and play with a guy (same handicap 22) who bombed it off the tee and always looked to see where our balls when when we went to take your next shot. He'd always comment on his distance ahead of me but when I put it in the hole before him there was never a mention, just a curse of how his putting was letting him down. Either way it never bothered me because I was playing the course and trying to work on reducing my handicap so my concern was not how far behind him I was but how I could save strokes to lower my score/handicap.

We still play together a year latter, he still bombs it ( Probably 300 for all I know ), I've less OB's and look like I'm going to be lower next year as a result of my effort. At the end of the day he gets what he want's out of golf and so do I .. there just different things.

[Lihu]

 

3 hours ago, Xunzi said:

So much animosity. When I play golf, I really dont care if I somebody outdrives me or scores better while driving short - good for them - I focus on my own game. And I rarely, if ever, play with people who cares much about my striking either, more than as a matter of politeness and maybe curiosity. Sounds like a complete joy kill to have that negative energy on the golf course.

Yes, no matter what, golf is supposed to be a game you enjoy.

3 hours ago, Xunzi said:

Also, the "if you have the swing to bomb it, you have the swing to nail it" is clearly false. That's what it all comes down to. 

Golf is not an easy game by any means, but most people are simply stating that if you can bomb drives then you likely have the coordination to learn or practice just a little bit more to get really good because the long bombing high handicap is a lot closer to really good golf than someone struggling to hit 50 yards less.

 

1 hour ago, JonMA1 said:

I didn't know this was quantified. To me, needing one club less to hit the same distance means you're longer.

One club less to hit the same distances generally means 2 clubs less on approaches.

For example, if you hit 10 yards longer than your partners you end up 10 yards closer to the pin and the club you select for that shorter distance is again 10 yards shorter than what your partners would use. So, you end up with a PW instead of an 8i for your second shot.

[Vinsk]

1 hour ago, JonMA1 said:

I'm talking about a short knocker who keeps it in play vs a long hitter who is wild enough to hit some out of bounds, has trouble hitting greens, has a poor sand game... things you'll often see with players above bogey golf.

Yes, but again you're stating these two golfers are your level. So, the short knockers have every chance of hitting ob, trouble hitting greens, poor sand game as the bombers. You seem to be implying that the short knockers out score the bombers because they 'keep it in the fairway.' Hitting shorter doesn't make one automatically more accurate is what I'm saying. So two golfers with a 22hcp but one hits driver much further will be at an advantage. Again, you stated the 'short knockers make birdie from 50yds back of the bombers' may happen if the bomber hits a wild one. But it's not going to be a common theme nor the factor that's making the short knocker win unless the bomber consistently hits ob and the short knocker hits the fairway, which means it's unlikely they are similar handicaps. 

[klineka]

8 hours ago, downbylaw11 said:

 he was however kind of a fat guy, so he had the obvious power source.  I'm still very doubtful of the 20+ handicappers who say they hit 300.  the one guy i know who told me he hit 300, was not an incredibly athletic guy, and probably only about 5'9 160, and in his downtime from work, he smoked a ton of weed and drank a lot, and talked about 9/11 conspiracies all day and how the government assassinated britney murphy.  anyways, hard to take a guy like that at his word of hitting it 300 yard drives.......

1. Just because youre "kind of a fat guy" does not mean you have instant power and the ability to hit 300 yards.. Actually, being overweight can actually restrict your ability to swing the club as fast as you need to and restrict the body movements necessary to make an efficient golf swing. Not sure why the fact that someone is overweight needs to even be mentioned.
2. Dustin Johnson is 2nd on the PGA tour in average driving distance this year at 314 yds, and he has failed not one, not two, but THREE drug tests! One for marijuana and two for cocaine. Not sure why that guys downtime activities are necessary to mention as a reason to discredit his claims.
3. Justin Thomas is even smaller than that guy who you mentioned at 5'9 160 and Thomas can clearly hit over 300 yards with just his 3 wood alone..

I am curious to hear your reasons why you felt those points were necessary to bring up as reasons to discredit someone's claims. None of us on a forum are going to be able to prove or disprove his claims, and neither are you unless you go to a range or a course and use GPS or laser 

[Xunzi]

56 minutes ago, Lihu said:

Golf is not an easy game by any means, but most people are simply stating that if you can bomb drives then you likely have the coordination to learn or practice just a little bit more to get really good because the long bombing high handicap is a lot closer to really good golf than someone struggling to hit 50 yards less.

I hope you're right, for now I'm trying to get that damn thing straight