20+ handicappers hitting 300 yards (mild rant)

[nick1998bunker]

That's not necessarily true. Driving distance is measured on opposing directional par 5s. You are simply unfamiliar with the distances you speak of.

I may be wrong but I think it is the 2 straightest holes(not necessarily par 5s) that are parralel to counteract the wind. And guys like woodland don't always hit drivers on the par 5s. Some hit irons and 3 woods like tiger.

[bplewis24]

There is good data/information (based on the week's rounds, unless stated otherwise) in this video.  FYI, I believe the first few swings of the video (Els' group) are downwind, but I can't tell for sure.

Lihu, peak driving distance and correlation with age isn't comparable to peak running speed and correlation with age.  If it were, guys like Tiger Woods wouldn't be able to outdrive younger golfers.  He and Bubba are still among the longest players on tour.

The basic reason why tour pros are being discussed in this thread now is because folks are using tour pro averages/lengths to suggest that it's not so amazing for 15 year old Joey to hit it 300 because 29 year old Gary Woodland hits it 350 (with the contextual suggestion that he could do that every time if he wanted).  We are now simply exaggerating all statistics to make another exaggeration more palatable or believable.

There is absolutely no doubt that Gary Woodland can hit it 350, and does.  But he doesn't carry it that far, and he is an extreme outlier (#3 overall driving distance in the world).  Comparing some high school kid who can't even break par to him is silly.

[nick1998bunker]

He [quote name="bplewis24" url="/t/18107/20-handicappers-hitting-300-yards-mild-rant/1020#post_892850"] There is good data/information (based on the week's rounds, unless stated otherwise) in this video.  FYI, I believe the first few swings of the video (Els' group) are downwind, but I can't tell for sure. [/quote]said a bit downwind but majorly right to left. And I don't know what to say other than I'm surprised tour numbers are just so low. I mean you can usually go to the range and pick out atleast one guy hitting it 280.

[Harmonious]

bplewis24 - Very good find of that video. But I think the dose of reality, like earlier trackman data, will do nothing to stop the claims of "easy" 300 yard drives jumping off the drivers of High School kids from coast to coast.

[nick1998bunker]

Y[quote name="Harmonious" url="/t/18107/20-handicappers-hitting-300-yards-mild-rant/1020#post_892857"]bplewis24 - Very good find of that video. But I think the dose of reality, like earlier trackman data, will do nothing to stop the claims of "easy" 300 yard drives jumping off the drivers of High School kids from coast to coast. [/quote] Yup

[muttbag]

I've been tracking my drives and also irons to gauge accurate distance. Lately I've been averaging 270 yards off the tee. I've had some in the 280's and two in the 290's, but I was swinging at the top of my register there. The majority of my drives are either staying in the fairway or going slightly in the rough on either side, but toning my swing down and keeping my left arm straight has yielded excellent results. I can hit the ball 300 yards, but I have to really go for it. My form suffers and I hit unpredictable drives. I've been working on my irons, so I don't mind leaving 20-30 yards on the table to have a second shot from the fairway since I'm trusting myself more and more with an iron in my hand. I play with some real monsters at my home course who can absolutely crush the ball, but they all go through long slumps where they can't stay in the fairway (I'm talking about these guys driving TWO fairways over on some occasions). The kid in me wants to be a big hitter. But the real 31 year old me is tired of scoring poorly because of poor shot choices.

[Lihu]

bplewis24 - Very good find of that video. But I think the dose of reality, like earlier trackman data, will do nothing to stop the claims of "easy" 300 yard drives jumping off the drivers of High School kids from coast to coast.

You should come to our town. It's not that unique in So. Cal., you will be humbled by these high school kids.

[Lihu]

There is good data/information (based on the week's rounds, unless stated otherwise) in this video.  FYI, I believe the first few swings of the video (Els' group) are downwind, but I can't tell for sure. Lihu, peak driving distance and correlation with age isn't comparable to peak running speed and correlation with age.  If it were, guys like Tiger Woods wouldn't be able to outdrive younger golfers.  He and Bubba are still among the longest players on tour. The basic reason why tour pros are being discussed in this thread now is because folks are using tour pro averages/lengths to suggest that it's not so amazing for 15 year old Joey to hit it 300 because 29 year old Gary Woodland hits it 350 (with the contextual suggestion that he could do that every time if he wanted).  We are now simply exaggerating all statistics to make another exaggeration more palatable or believable. There is absolutely no doubt that Gary Woodland can hit it 350, and does.  But he doesn't carry it that far, and he is an extreme outlier (#3 overall driving distance in the world).  Comparing some high school kid who can't even break par to him is silly.

The CIF championships are a pretty good recruiting ground for college level players. I wouldn't compare these kids with pros at all. At this level, I do admit I don't really know all the nuances of being better. I do know that these kids hit very far, and score in the plus handicap on championship courses. I'm not training to be on the PGA, I just want to be able to play from any course without losing balls :-) All I am saying is that some high school students are very capable of hitting these distances, and we shouldn't discount that just because we can't.

[nick1998bunker]

I [quote name="Lihu" url="/t/18107/20-handicappers-hitting-300-yards-mild-rant/1020#post_892918"] The CIF championships are a pretty good recruiting ground for college level players. I wouldn't compare these kids with pros at all. At this level, I do admit I don't really know all the nuances of being better. I do know that these kids hit very far, and score in the plus handicap on championship courses. I'm not training to be on the PGA, I just want to be able to play from any course without losing balls :-) All I am saying is that some high school students are very capable of hitting these distances, and we shouldn't discount that just because we can't.[/quote]mean most kids junior and senior hit it 280+ and most kids freshman and sophomore hit it 260+

[Harmonious]

I'm finished with this thread, as it has devolved (as all these types of threads eventually do) into anecdotes rather than real discussion.  Good luck to those who wish to continue to beat this dead horse.

[saevel25]

I

mean most kids junior and senior hit it 280+ and most kids freshman and sophomore hit it 260+

Depends on the golfer. Depends on when they hit there growth spurt as well. I was one of those kids, i was 250-260 off the tee, next year i gained 20 yards. It was just being a teenager.

I will also say, there is a huge advantage kids today have with golf instruction and being able to see there swing on video camera. we didn't have when i was in highschool, there was video cameras around, our coach never used one. God that makes me sound old, when the day you say, "We never had that". I need a beer now, go drown my sorrows. Damn.

[Slice of Life]

Depends on the golfer. Depends on when they hit there growth spurt as well. I was one of those kids, i was 250-260 off the tee, next year i gained 20 yards. It was just being a teenager.

I will also say, there is a huge advantage kids today have with golf instruction and being able to see there swing on video camera. we didn't have when i was in highschool, there was video cameras around, our coach never used one. God that makes me sound old, when the day you say, "We never had that". I need a beer now, go drown my sorrows. Damn.

We used to have to carry our golf clubs to and from school...5 miles...and it was uphill both ways. Did I mention that we always had at least 6" of snow on the ground?

[saevel25]

We used to have to carry our golf clubs to and from school...5 miles...and it was uphill both ways. Did I mention that we always had at least 6" of snow on the ground?

I can believe it, at least your from Cleveland, so the snow reference fits ;)

[Lihu]

We used to have to carry our golf clubs to and from school...5 miles...and it was uphill both ways. Did I mention that we always had at least 6" of snow on the ground?

You mean 2' of snow? That's what I tell my kids :-) :-) :-)

[RayG]

I will also say, there is a huge advantage kids today have with golf instruction and being able to see there swing on video camera. we didn't have when i was in highschool, there was video cameras around, our coach never used one.

And all these kids will have monotonous mechanical swings with no sense of individuality. As I mentioned in another thread, You could spot Palmer 3 fairways away, Nicklaus, Trevino and most other pros of the 'classic' era were as individual as could be. If you go to a current tour event, or maybe better- a web.com event, you couldn't tell Matthew Goggins from Matthew Giles standing a few feet away based on their swings. His mother probably could, but that would be it. If one piece of their swing goes off kilter, they're buried on the local "East regional Barney's Service Station League Tour" playing for free buffets at the local Elks Lodge until they run to their psychologists instead of hitting some balls to learn how to adapt.

[Fourputt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harmonious

Again I will ask... what golf team is this? No doubt there are lots of newspaper writeups about these guys.

The Wando Highschool golf team of Mount Pleasant SC. We are certainly in the newspapers but probably nothing about distance because so many kids can hit it 300 no problem. I'm confused why people think 300 yards is like here to the moon. Most par 4s that's a drive and you still got 100 yards into the greens.

So, you are getting those distances from the hole length on the scorecard?  That's irrelevant.  It's more accurate to measure on Google Earth than to use the card distances.  The only way to get close is with a good GPS which has a "mark" feature which allows you to measure a specific shot from the point were it's struck to the point where it ends up.  Even then measuring carry distance is difficult unless the ball leaves an identifiable mark in the fairway.

Using the scorecard along with the course markings is completely bogus.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harmonious

bplewis24 - Very good find of that video. But I think the dose of reality, like earlier trackman data, will do nothing to stop the claims of "easy" 300 yard drives jumping off the drivers of High School kids from coast to coast.

You should come to our town. It's not that unique in So. Cal., you will be humbled by these high school kids.

I doubt that I would be humbled by them.  I've been outdriven by many players during the last 40 years, but I've still beaten many of them on the scorecard, and that's the only number that counts.  I've played with a few high school kids too, one in particular who was crazy long, but after the drive, he was just average.   I play with a couple of very long hitters (one is a senior in high school) here in Colorado at a mile above sea level, and even they have to swing out of their socks to carry 300 yards.  It simply isn't as common as so many of you people seem to think it is.

[cipher]

And all these kids will have monotonous mechanical swings with no sense of individuality. As I mentioned in another thread, You could spot Palmer 3 fairways away, Nicklaus, Trevino and most other pros of the 'classic' era were as individual as could be. If you go to a current tour event, or maybe better- a web.com event, you couldn't tell Matthew Goggins from Matthew Giles standing a few feet away based on their swings. His mother probably could, but that would be it. If one piece of their swing goes off kilter, they're buried on the local "East regional Barney's Service Station League Tour" playing for free buffets at the local Elks Lodge until they run to their psychologists instead of hitting some balls to learn how to adapt.

Brandel is that you?

[saevel25]

So, you are getting those distances from the hole length on the scorecard?  That's irrelevant.  It's more accurate to measure on Google Earth than to use the card distances.  The only way to get close is with a good GPS which has a "mark" feature which allows you to measure a specific shot from the point were it's struck to the point where it ends up.  Even then measuring carry distance is difficult unless the ball leaves an identifiable mark in the fairway.

Even GPS is flawed, how do you measure a driving distance? Is it the actual distance a ball travels, or the horizontal distance down the fairway. What if the fairway bends? You can hit a ball that goes 300 yards, and if it curves 30 yards right, do you discard that 30 yards of distance? The ball still traveled that distance in the air, and still had the ball speed required for 300 yards.

But i agree that looking at the scorecard is wrong. I've found most courses either measure there distances from the back of the tee box, the center of the tee box, or the front of the tee box, depending on the tees you use. So, that means the tees could 10-20 yards up. That's huge when you say, I hit it 300, versus 280.

And all these kids will have monotonous mechanical swings with no sense of individuality. As I mentioned in another thread, You could spot Palmer 3 fairways away, Nicklaus, Trevino and most other pros of the 'classic' era were as individual as could be. If you go to a current tour event, or maybe better- a web.com event, you couldn't tell Matthew Goggins from Matthew Giles standing a few feet away based on their swings. His mother probably could, but that would be it. If one piece of their swing goes off kilter, they're buried on the local "East regional Barney's Service Station League Tour" playing for free buffets at the local Elks Lodge until they run to their psychologists instead of hitting some balls to learn how to adapt.

So what, does it matter? Yea, and if Jack's swing had a major flaw he would have probably not play well at all either. Believe me, just because a swing is unique doesn't give it protection from it being out of sort from time to time.