Average Distances - How Far Do You Hit Each Club? (And Don't Lie!)

[canth]

hmpff, no edit button with safari. So it's going to be another post...

I actually really dislike game golf for showing your club averages. When playing any shot, I always assume I'm making a good swing.  If I would take my game golf average, I'd be hitting a 7 iron for 100 yards, because that might be my average after I've hit one shank and one tree where the ball actually ended behind me (this HAS happened to me). The idea of game golf is that you also tag those horrible shots. This will skew up your averages.

[Golfingdad]

hmpff, no edit button with safari. So it's going to be another post...

I actually really dislike game golf for showing your club averages. When playing any shot, I always assume I'm making a good swing.  If I would take my game golf average, I'd be hitting a 7 iron for 100 yards, because that might be my average after I've hit one shank and one tree where the ball actually ended behind me (this HAS happened to me). The idea of game golf is that you also tag those horrible shots. This will skew up your averages.

It's not safari, it's just that there is a time limit to editing.  (10-15 minutes or so).

Regarding GG averages, I don't know exactly how they calculate them, but they're not really averages.  They obviously have some sort of algorithm built in to throw out real erroneous shots, so I think you might find that over time, those backwards shots will be left out.

Now, that said, they still aren't going to give you the number you're looking for.  I want to pull the club that is the "right" club for the shot, so if I hit it good, it's on the green and if I don't, it's short.  I don't want to hit a club that might go 30 yards over everything because I'm playing the averages.  That's silly.

[ChrisWev]

Problem I've found with GG is that you can't delete shots from the average or select your own start and end yardages which should be averaged. This is the only way the "average" could ever work.

On course there are different lies, flier lies, wind, different weather, gripping down the shaft, 3/4 swings, variations in strike, pitch shots, roll variations, uphill/ downhill, GPS errors etc, it doesn't stand a chance with the averages in all honesty. Best thing to do is look at your insight data and you can get a rough idea from the peaks and troughs.

For GG with my 8i of the entire range of shots (65y-197y) it uses shots in the 100 yard to 197 yard range and works out the average inbetween these. No way on earth should anything less than 130 and more than 160 total be used for my 8i "averages", when I usually carry it about 140 with 10 roll.

I think the only way (other than measuring with a laser and having a spotter) to get a true average is go on a launch monitor for an hour and gap test with your game balls. Depending on how good you are you may do it a different way but at my level I would hit 10 with each club, delete the largest and two smallest and average the rest on carry only. Then you have to figure out how the on course conditions and lie would effect that carry and roll (which is the hard bit).

[Dave2512]

When you get enough data in there the averages are very close to reality because the majority of the shots, the grey dots shown, are really what you are doing. Sure course dynamics, weather and shot type play a part but the impact is minimal. Most of the shots we take are routine. My GG numbers are very close to what I've seen on FlightScope when I use something better than a range ball.

As higher handicap golfers duffed shots are part of the deal. I know how far I should hit my 8 iron but actually hitting it well and getting it there happens maybe 50% of the time and almost every shot is some degree of mishit. The only thing I can count on is it probably won't be exactly as I'd like. I could take an extra club every dang time and the long miss would be a rare occurrence.

I had a guy telling me yesterday about all the great shots he'd been hitting, he just started again after a several year layoff. If I believed his version his ball striking and averages were on the level of elite PGA Tour averages, not the middle guys the very best. He shot 89 on a muni so something doesn't make sense. People tend to recall their best and then embellish. If GG says I average 155ish with 8 iron for the shots collected at that time that is the average give or take a few for GPS error and lazy tagging. I'm not always directly over the ball.

[Lihu]

8i 197 yards? 8i 155 average? That's nothing. . .I've hit my 7i something like 250+ yards.

I watched helplessly as it hit a cart path then bounced high OB, and hopped it's way down a steep hill eventually finding it's way onto a service road and rolled down the road a bit before I lost sight of it. Grrrr. It was a brand new Pro-V1/x too.

[Dave2512]

The best to worst stuff in my GG averages that aren't some fluke or punch out aren't real tight, say 40 yards, and that is what really happens. Truth is I really do hit my 6 iron anywhere from 145-185. If I could rely on my averages I would be shooting in the 80's that's for damn sure.

[Lihu]

The best to worst stuff in my GG averages that aren't some fluke or punch out aren't real tight, say 40 yards, and that is what really happens. Truth is I really do hit my 6 iron anywhere from 145-185. If I could rely on my averages I would be shooting in the 70's that's for damn sure.

Fixed it for you. With your 8.3 HC, you are shooting in the 80's already. . .

[Dave2512]

Fixed it for you. With your 8.3 HC, you are shooting in the 80's already. . .

Lol thanks was supposed to be wouldn't, I average 81.7 (most rounds on a par 71) and I am 8.6 now. Mostly because I hit all those erratic shots. Even on a good day it looks pretty bad.

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lihu

Fixed it for you. With your 8.3 HC, you are shooting in the 80's already. . .

Lol thanks was supposed to be wouldn't, I average 81.7 (most rounds on a par 71) and I am 8.6 now. Mostly because I hit all those erratic shots. Even on a good day it looks pretty bad.

Yeah, and I believe I have even more experience regarding those "erratic" shots. I make at least 3 to 4 more bad ones than you do on any given round.

[Dave2512]

Seriously if I hit a half dozen what I consider good shots a round it's a good day. I make the ugliest pars and bogeys you will ever see. My real average is who the f*&k; knows. Game Golf has me moving all over the place. A couple bad or good shots moves it as much as 15 yards. My current 7i average is less than my usual 8i average because I hit a couple 150ish shots that were actually pretty good, both GIR shots that didn't have that flushed sound. That's what most of them are some clicky not quite as high as perfect but not offline that are just a little short. Typically fly more straight than usual if I don't catch it close to really good my shot shape is less pronounced. Funny thing is I bitch about it all the time, mumbling crap and people are like that was a killer shot dude. Even armed with knowledge I tend to have unrealistic expectations.

[phillyk]

Seriously if I hit a half dozen what I consider good shots a round it's a good day. I make the ugliest pars and bogeys you will ever see. My real average is who the f*&k; knows. Game Golf has me moving all over the place. A couple bad or good shots moves it as much as 15 yards. My current 7i average is less than my usual 8i average because I hit a couple 150ish shots that were actually pretty good, both GIR shots that didn't have that flushed sound. That's what most of them are some clicky not quite as high as perfect but not offline that are just a little short. Typically fly more straight than usual if I don't catch it close to really good my shot shape is less pronounced. Funny thing is I bitch about it all the time, mumbling crap and people are like that was a killer shot dude. Even armed with knowledge I tend to have unrealistic expectations.

I wouldn't use GG for average distances.  If you want to know about the distance you hit a certain club / how well you hit it, then pay attention to GIR from the given yardage zones and what clubs you are using for those yardages.  So instead of a single distance per club, you'll have a range of distances per club that hit the green more often.  Might help.

[Dave2512]

Nah it's a ball striking issue. I know exactly how far I hit each club in every range when struck well, I perform okay in controlled situations like the range and have lots of launch monitor data. My GG averages are close to my FlightScope averages, roughly the same as my FL carry avgs give or take a few. The problem is I never know when something ugly is about to happen on the course. For me the problem starts on the tee and because I play low end muni courses I never know what I will find my ball lying on. I'd be willing to bet a great deal of my poor shots are influenced by lie and stance conditions.

It's usually not as simple as hit target with laser and grab club X. Shots are up and down hill with varying wind. With benign lies I tend to hit pretty decent shots to a fairly tight pattern even if I miss the green it's in the +/- 15 yards or so range with shorter clubs. Even then a good chunk of greens I hit are just lucky breaks because as a half decent golfer the vast majority of the shots are advanced towards the target even if not perfectly struck. It's not often something happens as I draw it up in my mind and some of the stuff that ends up that way may not have even been a good feeling swing it's just how the chips fell. I can make a birdie hitting a thin line drive that flies 5 feet off the ground, that barely clears a hazard but bounces off the edge in front of a green and pops up there two feet from the flag. On paper it's a GIR and one putt bird. In person it's a crap shot that fortunately didn't get me in trouble and happenstance gave me a present.

[Lihu]

Nah it's a ball striking issue. I know exactly how far I hit each club in every range when struck well, I perform okay in controlled situations like the range and have lots of launch monitor data. My GG averages are close to my FlightScope averages, roughly the same as my FL carry avgs give or take a few. The problem is I never know when something ugly is about to happen on the course. For me the problem starts on the tee and because I play low end muni courses I never know what I will find my ball lying on. I'd be willing to bet a great deal of my poor shots are influenced by lie and stance conditions.

It's usually not as simple as hit target with laser and grab club X. Shots are up and down hill with varying wind. With benign lies I tend to hit pretty decent shots to a fairly tight pattern even if I miss the green it's in the +/- 15 yards or so range with shorter clubs. Even then a good chunk of greens I hit are just lucky breaks because as a half decent golfer the vast majority of the shots are advanced towards the target even if not perfectly struck. It's not often something happens as I draw it up in my mind and some of the stuff that ends up that way may not have even been a good feeling swing it's just how the chips fell. I can make a birdie hitting a thin line drive that flies 5 feet off the ground, that barely clears a hazard but bounces off the edge in front of a green and pops up there two feet from the flag. On paper it's a GIR and one putt bird. In person it's a crap shot that fortunately didn't get me in trouble and happenstance gave me a present.

Makes sense.

[ChrisWev]

8i 197 yards? 8i 155 average? That's nothing. . .I've hit my 7i something like 250+ yards. I watched helplessly as it hit a cart path then bounced high OB, and hopped it's way down a steep hill eventually finding it's way onto a service road and rolled down the road a bit before I lost sight of it. Grrrr. It was a brand new Pro-V1/x too. :-D

Haha, i know, it was like miracle flier sat up in the rough. 150 yard marker to middle, pin in the middle left, I was thinking 8I 140 carey and maybe 10 roll on the green. Hit the 8I out of the rough, bullet straight, and not only cleared the green, it cleared the 40 foot trees behind it. I always pay a bit more attention to lie after that. We don't get many cart paths over here on the courses I play so I've not had one of those yet, god I only get my driver to 250 maybe 1/8 goes haha!

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lihu

8i 197 yards? 8i 155 average? That's nothing. . .I've hit my 7i something like 250+ yards.

I watched helplessly as it hit a cart path then bounced high OB, and hopped it's way down a steep hill eventually finding it's way onto a service road and rolled down the road a bit before I lost sight of it. Grrrr. It was a brand new Pro-V1/x too.

Haha, i know, it was like miracle flier sat up in the rough. 150 yard marker to middle, pin in the middle left, I was thinking 8I 140 carey and maybe 10 roll on the green. Hit the 8I out of the rough, bullet straight, and not only cleared the green, it cleared the 40 foot trees behind it. I always pay a bit more attention to lie after that.

We don't get many cart paths over here on the courses I play so I've not had one of those yet, god I only get my driver to 250 maybe 1/8 goes haha!

Nice, 197 is pretty far even for a flier!

I had some serious gravity assist.

[blackizzz]

Driver - 265, mostly carry :/ (SS - 110 on average, lots of spin though)

3W - 250

5w - 230

4i - 196

5i - 186

6i - 175

7i - 165

8i - 151

9i - 138

47° - 126

52° - 104

56° - 71

Hit shots way too high with loads of spin, need to deloft the club face more, especially on the wedges.

[ChrisWev]

Nice, 197 is pretty far even for a flier!

I had some serious gravity assist.

Must have been some kind of bizzare de-lofted flier fluke, I can't understand how it beats my best 7i by about 10 yards though, yet my longest 9i is 184! Funny thing is I've loads of 8's in the 165-190 range(total), must hit a lot out of the rough!!

I'm not trying to claim I can whack it btw (far from it), I'll be totally honest in saying these "good" hits are from my often strikes out of the light rough! Generally an 8i used to carry about 140, maybe up to 150 at absolute best (but usually a pull) for max distance. Now my 8i goes about 130 carry at best (and then spins back!) due to my ****ed up loft :S

Most of my longer shots were using Bridgestone e7's too, not even god could get any club to go above 5000rpm with them . Sound great for distance but playing every shot from the back of the green as it's bounced through is false economy!

[onthehunt526]

GameGolf, I honestly think it's too skewed... I know a guy who has it, and takes the sensor out when he hits pitches, chips and weird shots...