The Stack and Tilt Golf Swing

[BadGolfer]

I recently discovered this type of swing, and I am planning on going to the range tomorrow to give it a shot. I am currently just trying to combat a slice on my drives.

So the whole point is to sit forward a bit and change your swing path (overly simplistic, I know)?

Like in this video:


They change the point where the club face contacts with the ball to a higher point in the arc. I am dubious about the geometry involved here. Wouldn't this cause the club to be open and therefore slice even more? And also, with the one plane swing, it seems like it would be more of the motion of cutting a tree down with an ax, which would go out-in even MORE and cause MORE side-spin and a larger slice.

Could someone help me understand this type of swing? Or as a beginner am I just going to confuse myself and make my game even worse?

[pixel5]

They change the point where the club face contacts with the ball to a higher point in the arc. I am dubious about the geometry involved here. Wouldn't this cause the club to be open and therefore slice even more?

No. Think about the downswing path only, and IGNORE the feet and intended target line for a minute. Consider ONLY the direction the downswing is going, and think about the clubface at the bottom of that downswing. If the club face is square to that swing path, it will SEEM open when compared to the target line. If it were parallel to the original target line, it would be closed and you would hook the ball. See ~3:10-:30 on that video for reference. Awesome video by the way, props to whoever made it. It explains S&T perfectly and why it works and why its so repeatable.

[Joeyvee]

I'm adapting S&T principles into my swing too and it's helped a TON. shot my lowest score ever yesterday.
I tried it once based on a video and a few small pieces of information I had and said this swing sucks, these guys are crazy. Then when I really looked at it and read the book it made a lot mroe sense and I tried it properly and its starting to work a lot better for me. So yeah. That videos cool but BUY THE BOOK. No B.S. It'll jhelp
If you're dying to get started immediately just hit a bunch of range balls with 5% more wieght on your front foot then before. I also move the ball back about half an inch now and it helps me draw the ball more. I'm going to have to adjust the handicap I have posted on this site soon :)

[BadGolfer]

So I decided to give stack and tilt a try today at the range as a change from my normal (horrendous) two plane swing. I have no clue if I am doing it right, but... my slice is gone. It used to be that every drive would go about 120+ yards forward and 40 yards to the left (left handed). Due completely, I believe, to a bad swing path. I was focusing too much on the club face being open and closed, but that was not the problem since the ball would start straight and then curve. The real problem was having a swing that went out to in, creating side spin on the ball.

Here is what I concentrated on:

More weight on my front foot, and increase weight throughout the forward swing, instead of shifting around so much.
Instead of having so much horizontal shoulder movement I concentrated on keeping my head still and dipping my shoulder vertically.
No more raising the club so much. I was trying to swing along a straight target line, but as I have now learned this is incorrect as a club swings in an arc. Now I swing back on one plane, waaaay farther back away from my body, and dip my shoulder to be able to do so farther.
Putting my hands slightly in front of the ball.

Based on what I have changed, what other tips should I follow? This is all for my driver btw, I haven't had a chance to apply this to my irons yet, but I am sort of afraid to since my irons are already straight...

I'm extremely excited right now. I've been miserable on the course lately due to my terrible drives.

[mvmac]

So I decided to give stack and tilt a try today at the range as a change from my normal (horrendous) two plane swing. I have no clue if I am doing it right, but... my slice is gone. It used to be that every drive would go about 120+ yards forward and 40 yards to the left (left handed). Due completely, I believe, to a bad swing path. I was focusing too much on the club face being open and closed, but that was not the problem since the ball would start straight and then curve. The real problem was having a swing that went out to in, creating side spin on the ball.

I'd say keep it simple. Some people focus way to much of the weight forward aspect. There is only a 5-10% "shift" to the forward foot on the backswing. I never think about the weight going forward on the backswing. I would suggest:

- Turning the shoulders in a circle to keep the head centered. For you, right shoulder under the chin and the left back and around. A good feel is holding a club pressed against your chest and push the left shoulder back on itself. Try to get the shaft to point at the ball to get the feel of the shoulders turning steeply. - Allow the left knee to straighten and right knee to flex, not lock, to get the shoulders, and hips to turn on a tilted angle. This also gets the arms in and keeps them in since the hips have room to turn. - Put some tees under your arms, or maybe just under you right arm to start, to get the feel of connection.

[MMouse]

Driver continues to be my mortal enemy with this swing.
I am smashing my irons farther and more accurate than most guys I play with after practicing the swing all year.

I CANNOT get a consistent driver swing going though.

Any thoughts or drills out there for the driver swing as it applies to S & T?

[iacas]

Any thoughts or drills out there for the driver swing as it applies to S & T?

It'd be helpful if you said what your problem was with the driver.

[MMouse]

It'd be helpful if you said what your problem was with the driver.

Take your pick. Hook, slice, top, sky high, grounding the driver.

I have no idea what changes and why but once I get the driver in my hand with all of its length, I just can't feel the swing. It feels awkward. Have you seen anything similar with any students? I just "feel" like the length puts me out of control.

[iacas]

Try this: straight arms on the backswing (that's the feeling - it'll help to prevent overflexing of the right elbow), really work on pushing forward even more.

We've never seen your swing on video, though, so take those tips for what they are - basically educated guesses based on... very little. We can't really help you without video.

[MMouse]

Thanks iacas, I know it's tough without seeing. I think I need to video a driver swing just so I can see it too rather than going by "feel".

[khale]

I always have had problem with hitting behind the ball. I have taken two series of 6 lessons in the past and those lessons fixed my problem for a while but it always came back. My main problems is on the backswing the hands moving back, up and in instead of extending the club straight back away from the ball as in the traditional swing. In addition, I tend to have problem tranferring my weight back during the down swing. These combination resulted in thin and fat shots.

The threads about the stack and tilt swing on this forum got me interested. After some reading, watching youtube videos and watching videos of my own swing I was convinced that the stack and tilt swing is more natural for me. I bought the official stack and tilt book from Amazon and has been experimenting with this swing in the last three weeks.

I hit the ball very crisp now. On Saturday, I hit 180 balls at the range and none was fat. I also gained about 5 yards on average. I went to Torrey Pines North late Sunday to test my new swing on the course for the first time and again I didn't have any fat shot (normally around 3 or 4 fat or thin shots in a round). I hit 9 greens and shot 88. My score would have been better if I could putt, I had 6 three putts (2 misses within 2 feet). I have been focused on my full swing and neglected my putting practice.

I am a natural one planer with weight transfer problem so this stack and tilt swing works for me.

I can't guarantee that it will work for you but if you are having problem with the traditional swing, why not give it a try?

[majorchamp]

awesome man. Stack and Tilt is kind of gimmicky to me...reason why I say that is because people are throwing a name at it now, but many of the qualities of S&T have been around forever, with all the best players using some form of it. Maybe not S&T to a "t" but qualities like ball position, weight on the left side, rotating around your spine, etc...

I used to sway..but in the last month or so, I have been focused on keeping my weight about 60% / 40% (left foot / right foot) at address, and in fact throughout the entire swing. I then focus on turning around my body on the swing and hitting it from the inside.

So I am taking pieces of S&T and incorporating it into my swing..though won't go as far as to say I am a S&T player as I am not. But doing these changes has allowed me to finally hit DOWN on the ball and take my divots out in front of it.

I have always been a "picker", because my weight has been on my right foot, not my left.

[stacks04]

Thanks iacas, I know it's tough without seeing. I think I need to video a driver swing just so I can see it too rather than going by "feel".

Mmouse, have you tried to choke up on the driver shaft at all? I hit my driver better than I did before starting the stack and tilt, but still not perfect. I recently read a thread here about choking up and thus shortening the length of the club and it made a noticable difference. I moved my hands up a full 2 inches from the butt of the club.

[Zeph]

awesome man. Stack and Tilt is kind of gimmicky to me...reason why I say that is because people are throwing a name at it now, but many of the qualities of S&T have been around forever, with all the best players using some form of it. Maybe not S&T to a "t" but qualities like ball position, weight on the left side, rotating around your spine, etc...

It was the media that started giving it a name really, and for Mike and Andy to get some attention, they had to name it something. If you find the philosophy of S&T in the best players I'm not surprised, since that is exactly how Mike and Andy created S&T.; They looked at thousands of golfers, good and bad through the history of this sport. They looked at what the best players had in common and put it together. S&T is what a lot of players already do, all top players got 80-90% of the S&T principles. It's the badmouthing S&T has recieved from the rest of the instructing world and the media that has given it a bad reputation. None of those negative comments have been based on facts, they are just trying to protect their own philosophy and business by cocking up stuff.

[MMouse]

Mmouse, have you tried to choke up on the driver shaft at all? I hit my driver better than I did before starting the stack and tilt, but still not perfect. I recently read a thread here about choking up and thus shortening the length of the club and it made a noticable difference. I moved my hands up a full 2 inches from the butt of the club.

2"? isn't that costing you some distance?

[nevets88]

With regards to deep hands - if you take your hands back on the backswing, not deep enough, but a little "tall", more upright I guess, is the tendency to pull the ball?

[ugottabjoshinme]

With regards to deep hands - if you take your hands back on the backswing, not deep enough, but a little "tall", more upright I guess, is the tendency to pull the ball?

It is for me. Once I get my hands "up" it is alot easier for me to start my downswing with my left shoulder and come over the top.

[stacks04]

2"? isn't that costing you some distance?

Hahahaha, your funny, by costing me some distance do you mean from the ball to the pin on the second shot:) Honestly It may be or may not. I never really got a good read on distance because they would go so far off to the right. At the range I still hit the fence which is about 245 yds or so. Not any different from before when I did hit them straight.