The Stack and Tilt Golf Swing

[scopek]

Read through a lot of the beginning pages and thought I would add my experience.

I'm a proud stack and tilt student but when I was first introduced to it I wasn't aware what "stack and tilt" even was. I didn't realize it was what I was being taught until 5 months afterwards. If you are able to find a good informed teacher you will see quick progress. The more I learned about Stack and Tilt the more I learned what makes a swing work. I went from casting my right hand with high banana slices to penetrating draws. After my first 2 lessons I instantly noticed a difference in compression. I stuck with my instructor because of this and continued to learn a great deal. I was lucky enough to work with Bennett a few times as he came through my town and would meet my instructor and each time he did my mind was blown on how quickly he was able to adjust my swing for even more break throughs with his drills and camera. I know there are many moves non stack and tilt that will create more power for you but they also will require more practice and better timing. For me at my level I want to master the stack and tilt fundamentals for consistency before adding more non stack and tilt "power moves" that will create inconsistent timing issues which requires it's own practice.

Educate yourself though. Most of the S+T students I have met have moved on to an "evolved" stack and tilt swing to create more power once they have mastered the fundamentals of the stack and tilt. Notice I say "once they have mastered"

If you are inconsistent, lack compression and desire a draw then you should give Stack and Tilt an honest effort and make your adjustments from there or at the very least learn what the difference is. Don't make any swing changes without understanding "why" you are doing what you are doing. I feel like a lot of the bad rep it has gotten is from other Pro's protecting their income. If they can't teach it to you then they aren't going to say anything kind about it. Every pro I met that wasn't informed on Stack and Tilt only spoke negatively about it despite not being trained in it themselves. That's unprofessional at its best and I make certain not to send any students their way after. It's one thing to say "I've learned what Stack and tilt is about but I believe this is the better path for you and here's why" but it's quite another to say "don't mess with it, it will only screw you up and I refuse to deal with it or learn more about it". If you encounter any instructor that reacts the 2nd way leave immediately and don't go back. They just want your money and they have lost their ability to learn themselves. All PGA pros continue to go through seminars and should continue to learn more every year. If yours doesn't, that's a big red flag.

If ever you get the chance take the seminar with Bennett, it is worth the money and he gives complete 1 on 1 attention even in group lessons. However you learn to swing just always learn the why's. If your pro restricts your knowledge that's a red flag. Always keep your ability to be wrong and learn more. A lot of older pros have lost that and consequently are stuck in their ways. Stack and tilt was a big breakthrough and fix for me and I am extremely glad to have learned and continue to learn more about it.

Stack and Tilt Student since September 2012

Thanks DaveST for sharing your experience. This is an awesome post. I've been playing about 3.5 years now. I started off going to your average PGA professional, but learned about S&T and it instantly resonated with me. I had some instruction from a S&T teacher, but he was too far away for me to make consistent gains. I spent the next year or two bouncing back and forth between a few different teachers and methods. I ended up signing up with evolvr (the online lessons) as the 5 Simple Keys seemed to essentially give me the same thing that I wanted out of S&T.; After a few lessons, I recently just asked my evolvr instructor if he can teach me the S&T pattern through the 5SKs. He said we could do that and that's what we're working on now. It's taken a while, but things are starting to click and I'm striking the ball much better. I'm a huge fan of S&T, but I like the 5Sks as it's helping me organize a plan of action and puts S&T into a clearer picture. I'm going to try to occasionally get back to the S&T instructor to get a eye's on lesson every so often.

I'd absolutely love to take a lesson from Bennett some day. I occasionally go to their site to see when the clinics run. But getting down to Fl would be pretty tough during this phase in my life with a young kid. Someday I'll get down there.

This is why I'm looking at the swing I want better contact, more consistency and something I don't have to practice night and day to be decent at it.

You can't substitute live instruction. But if you can't find anyone, I'd recommend doing evolvr. I don't know if all the instructors are familiar with S&T (I'd bet most are), but that shouldn't matter.  You can use the 5SKs to guide a S&T pattern, if that's what you want.

[iacas]

You can't substitute live instruction. But if you can't find anyone, I'd recommend doing evolvr. I don't know if all the instructors are familiar with S&T (I'd bet most are), but that shouldn't matter.  You can use the 5SKs to guide a S&T pattern, if that's what you want.

They all are.

And every good swing fits into the 5 Simple Keys®.

[Slowcelica]

It really helps if you have someone to help you. An instructor is irreplaceable. However short of that, buy a mount for your camera to take footage of your swing so you can continuously work and analyze. Many times what you think you are doing you are not. This way you can make the most of your practice time rather than go through an entire session to find out that you were practicing something wrong I used the Protosports attachment for the iPhone but there are others on the market. I love the iPhone 5s Slow motion too, extremely helpful

Yea I have a mount for my camera plus I do most of my practicing in slow motion in front of a mirror.

[taxgolf]

I had the privilege to have a personale lesson from Mike and Andy when they were in Holland. It was awesome. What strikes me the most that I felt I got the same attention as they would give to a tour player. Honest and humble. Deep, deep respect. I think a golf swing itself is pretty difficult. If it wasn't, we all would be great golfers. The system helps me to organize. I watch a lot of clips, not only of M&A;, but also from mr Wedzik, mr. Mayo mr. Barzerski. I am a strong believer of S&T, but like to have am open mind. Of to a lesson tomorrow. :-D

[Slowcelica]

So I bought the s&t; book and have read up to chapter 3 and so far my biggest takeaway from the book is I only need to turn my shoulders 45* and my hips 45* to get the 90* turn, this is pretty big for me because while I was turning my hips I was doing so be turning only my shoulders which in turn was causing my head to dip a few inches about half way back in my backswing. Also it helps if I start the backswing by moving my shoulder down and then finish my turn by rotating my hips and straightening my back leg. So far really like the book and it makes a lot of sense.

[Crazycanuck44]

Been working on it and it is starting to get better, taking one step at a time to get the system to work so far so good. Just takes time to get everything to work all at once.

[Crazycanuck44]

Unfortunately my left knee which has had 7 operations on cannot handle the full weight any longer. I thought it would be able to handle it but it's just too sore. Going to have to try something more traditional...

[iacas]

Unfortunately my left knee which has had 7 operations on cannot handle the full weight any longer. I thought it would be able to handle it but it's just too sore. Going to have to try something more traditional...

You were probably over-doing it, to be honest.

There's not a lot of pressure on the left knee in an S&T backswing. It's a misleading and/or downright incorrect statement. It's a "feel" that works for some, but in reality, the majority of the weight and pressure (more so pressure, but weight goes 55/45 or so too) is in the right (trail) foot during the backswing.

[Crazycanuck44]

Ty Erik I will check this out..

[Slowcelica]

Quick question, in the backswing I should only be hinging my wrists, not rolling my wrists to get the club on plane?

Does anyone have a video or a drill for this?

[Missouri Swede]

Take a look at:

http://purestrike5sk.com/videos

Look under Key #4 for

• Simple Takeaway Drill with an Alignment Stick
• Wrist Hinge (Kuchar) Takeaway Drill

[Slowcelica]

Take a look at:   [URL=http://purestrike5sk.com/videos.php#video_playback][U]http://purestrike5sk.com/videos[/U][/URL] Look under Key #4 for [LIST] [*] Simple Takeaway Drill with an Alignment Stick [*] Wrist Hinge (Kuchar) Takeaway Drill [/LIST]

So this is where I may be confused, should I be rotating my forearm on the backswing to get the club on plane or should my forearm stay in the same position as when I set up?

[Missouri Swede]

So this is where I may be confused, should I be rotating my forearm on the backswing to get the club on plane or should my forearm stay in the same position as when I set up?

There will be some forearm rotation (there has to be some).  I'm not qualified to give a full explanation, but the "feel" probably depends on which action you need more of to put you in the right alignments.

Take a look at the thread on forearm rotation A2-A3 . It may give you the info you're looking for.

[Slowcelica]

There will be some forearm rotation (there has to be some).  I'm not qualified to give a full explanation, but the "feel" probably depends on which action you need more of to put you in the right alignments. Take a look at the thread on [URL=http://thesandtrap.com/t/65517/forearm-rotation-a2-a3][U]forearm rotation A2-A3[/U][/URL]. It may give you the info you're looking for.

Thanks that answers my question.

[Slowcelica]

So question for you guys, I finally finished reading the book, and I am going to follow the plan they suggest, contact, power, curve, I think that's the right order. I know contact is first so that is what I am working on now basically using keys #1, #2 steady head, weight forward. So for those of you who have made swing changes how long did you work on them until you felt like you were satisfied or that you were doing them well enough to move on to the next change?

[Kujan]

It might be better to post your question in a 5SK forum. Are you doing a S&T swing in the context of 5SK?

[Slowcelica]

It might be better to post your question in a 5SK forum. Are you doing a S&T swing in the context of 5SK?

No not really, so step 1 of S&T is what? Control the low point of your swing to get consistent contact. So how do you do that well you have a centered pivot and you get your weight forward. What are keys #1, & #2? Steady head, weight forward, so where is the difference? Besides that whether its S&T or 5sk is irrelevant if you are doing either method you would need to know when it's ok to move on to the next priority piece.

[mvmac]

No not really, so step 1 of S&T is what? Control the low point of your swing to get consistent contact. So how do you do that well you have a centered pivot and you get your weight forward. What are keys #1, & #2? Steady head, weight forward, so where is the difference? Besides that whether its S&T or 5sk is irrelevant if you are doing either method you would need to know when it's ok to move on to the next priority piece.

Just to clarify, Key #2 is Weight Forward at impact.

To your question, you know you're doing it right by confirming it with video, an instructor or you're close to an 8 handicap.