Heavier club head = ball goes farther?

[Mike Boatright]

I have conducted a semi scientific test proving mass or a heavier head will go farther given it was designed correctly.I took a Titleist 975 d titanium and a Callaway I fit 8.5 tour head and chopped em. The callaway was nearly un hittable because it had no mass and was essentially just a titanium plate. The Titleist wen't as far as my best drive one time the rest were terrible mostly low or just weak shots with no power especially the Callaway!

This is all despite the fact that I could swing these clubs from 120 to 130 mph. My razr x 460 cc driver went 270 yards with a 96 mph swing significantly slower yet very long compared to the 230 yard drives I hit at best with these prototypes swinging 120 mph these clubs both had a total weight of under 200 grams shafts,grips and the head..

[onthehunt526]

I'm going to chime in and say... Really too heavy and it won't go much further... A little extra weight strategically placed, I'd say it's plausible... For instance: if I were to add a couple grams of weight on the sole... It will help my trajectory... Don't know about distance... Feel maybe... I've been tossing around the idea of putting lead tape in the cavity of my irons to feel the head better, because my shafts are on 90g...

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Boatright

I have conducted a semi scientific test proving mass or a heavier head will go farther given it was designed correctly.I took a Titleist 975 d titanium and a Callaway I fit 8.5 tour head and chopped em. The callaway was nearly un hittable because it had no mass and was essentially just a titanium plate. The Titleist wen't as far as my best drive one time the rest were terrible mostly low or just weak shots with no power especially the Callaway!

This is all despite the fact that I could swing these clubs from 120 to 130 mph. My razr x 460 cc driver went 270 yards with a 96 mph swing significantly slower yet very long compared to the 230 yard drives I hit at best with these prototypes swinging 120 mph these clubs both had a total weight of under 200 grams shafts,grips and the head.

http://www.tutelman.com/golf/clubs/headweight1.php#constant_length_cochran

Quote:

Clubhead mass		Clubhead speed (MPH)	Ball speed (MPH)	Carry (Yards)
Ounces	Grams
1	28	132	85
2	57	126	118	156
4	113	117	140	206
6	170	110	146	218
8	227	104	147	219
10	283	100	145	216
12	340	96	142	210
16	454	90	138	200
24	680	81	128	178

[Mike Boatright]

http://www.tutelman.com/golf/clubs/headweight1.php#constant_length_cochran

Pretty awesome 200 grams is the standard hmm.... Just browsing the graphs it shows 110 mph at 230 yards carry what are they smoking? 110 mph with a persimmon wood driver is 285 yards carry a titanium graphite modern about 300 to 310? Anyway I like the depiction showing the correlation between mass and ball speed. A modern driver weighs about 280 grams total these prototypes I made about 185 total. adding another 25 grams to increase the mass and stability of these clubs could be the difference needed to still have 120 mph speed and easy power.

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lihu

http://www.tutelman.com/golf/clubs/headweight1.php#constant_length_cochran

Pretty awesome 200 grams is the standard hmm.... Just browsing the graphs it shows 110 mph at 230 yards carry what are they smoking? 110 mph with a persimmon wood driver is 285 yards carry a titanium graphite modern about 300 to 310? Anyway I like the depiction showing the correlation between mass and ball speed. A modern driver weighs about 280 grams total these prototypes I made about 185 total. adding another 25 grams to increase the mass and stability of these clubs could be the difference needed to still have 120 mph speed and easy power.

Yeah, I though it was interesting that the weight of the club head seems to have evolved over time to 200 grams.

The article seems to indicate that the club face COR was only 0.78 and the balls might have also had less COR, so that might explain the reduction in carry to 230 yards?

A modern driver with 110mph SS at +5 degrees AoA will only give 268 carry yards.

[Lihu]

Here's a tidbit of information on the ball.

Quote:

A modern ball dropped from 60 inches rebounded consistently to 44 inches, giving a COR of 0.73. Whereas a balata ball from 1990 dropped from the same height, only rebounded to 36 inches, giving a COR of 0.60 – a substantial difference!

[philando]

When I went to school my Physics teacher taught us F equals half the mass times velocity squared. Extra mass only counts for half the force whereas extra speed is squared!

[saevel25]

When I went to school my Physics teacher taught us F equals half the mass times velocity squared. Extra mass only counts for half the force whereas extra speed is squared!

It's all momentum, which takes into account F = MA. It's just A gets taken out due to arithmetic.

M1 x V1 = M2 x V2 for an inelastic collision

For a golf ball it's

Velocity of Ball = Velocity of Club x Smash Factor

Clubhead Mass is taken into account as a ratio with Ball Mass

[iacas]

It's all momentum, which takes into account F = MA. It's just A gets taken out due to arithmetic.

M1 x V1 = M2 x V2 for an inelastic collision

For a golf ball it's

Velocity of Ball = Velocity of Club x Smash Factor

Clubhead Mass is taken into account as a ratio with Ball Mass

I know you weren't saying it… but F=ma is not really relevant to how far a golf ball flies given a clubhead and a delivered velocity. The clubhead can be accelerating or decelerating - it doesn't really matter much - at impact but if everything else is the same, the ball goes pretty much the same distance.

F=ma does have applications about how quickly one can accelerate a given mass (the clubhead, which can be lighter or heavier, along with the shaft, their arms, etc.) given a force (i.e. how strong/fast their muscles are). i.e. given the same acceleration to reach the same terminal (impact) velocity, force needs to be increased proportionally.

[joro]

On 11/9/2009 at 11:45 AM, Chief Broom said:

A heaver head will make the ball go farther, but you get better results increasing ball speed by increasing club speed. The physics of motion stipulate that doubling the mass of an object in motion colliding with another at rest (all other factors remaining constant) doubles the speed of the object at rest (X mph before double the mass now X+X mph). Double the momentum of the of the object in motion increases the speed of the object at rest exponentially (squared; X mph before doubling the speed now X^2 mph).

Naturally we aren't hitting golf balls in a vacume nor are we hitting them in the abscence of gravity, but those factors effect your golf ball the same whether you hit it with twice the club head speed or with a club head weighing twice as much. All that being said increasing your club head speed is the best way to make the ball go farther...

My question is using a Driver or an Iron as an example will you get more distance and control with a heavy S/W  or a club that is lower S/W and heavier in the grip end.    A lot are now using counterbalancing, Sergio for example.     And todays "heavy" clubs are nothing like we had in old days with 130 gram shafts and 13+ oz. O/all weights in the drivers.    Irons for the tour pro are not much different today, but the Drivers and Fairways of today are much lighter.     Palmer played a driver that was almost 15 oz.      But again any opinions about where the weight should be.   Keep in mind the head would still way the same but the grip end would be heavier.     As an example a 101/2 oz driver with a 65 gram grip and a 49 gr. shaft with a S/W of C5. vs a 25 gr. grip with a D3 S/W.    Keep in mind that one S/W is 2 gr.      Just curious about what people think.

[Buckeyebowman]

It's simple physics. Mass times velocity equals momentum. If you can swing a heavier clubhead at the exact same speed, AOA, angle of descent, swing path, clubhead path  and everything else exactly the same as a lighter clubhead, the ball struck with the heavier clubhead will go farther!

However, you need a robot like "Iron Byron" to do this! We are sentient, physical beings and have no chance at doing this!

Oh, and BTW, make sure you have a shaft in the club with the heavier head that matches up exactly with the shaft in the club with the lighter head!

When you really get into it, it's like Chinese arithmetic!

[joro]

Yes Buckeye, you are right, and the game is a Chinese Fire Drill.      Thank you for the opinion.

[bwdial]

Don't some guys like a little extra weight simply for increased feel, and to keep the club "on path?"

[joro]

33 minutes ago, bwdial said:

Don't some guys like a little extra weight simply for increased feel, and to keep the club "on path?"

The are several reasons for the weight.    I learned to play with heavy, but I was really strong in the day and had to have heavy.     I used a D7 with a 130 gram X Dynamic tipped 1" and my Grn Victory grip built up 5 wraps.      A 150 yard 9 Iron.    But today I see some players counterbalancing for a lighter feel saying they get more speed that way.

I am hitting Wilson Irons and have two sets, both with 75 gr. shafts and both a half inch long.   One set has 43 gr  griips at D4 and the other has 62 gr.  grips at D1.    Both are about equal but I like the fell of the  heavier, LOL, one better.      So the S/W is bit heavier with the head on the end of a pole.     S/W itself is 1pt. equals 2 gr., but on the end of a stick it can be significant.     So Bottom Line I think it is about feel.                                                                

[CCC]

A higher swing weight helps me feel the club head thru my swing. I have a slow swing speed. I'm old.

If I could just lighten my grip on the club, I could feel a lighter, lower swing weight thru my swing.

The higher swing weight gives me a feeling of confidence. Golf is a game of confidence.

 

Edited October 17, 2017 by CCC
needed a comma.

[Buckeyebowman]

2 hours ago, bwdial said:

Don't some guys like a little extra weight simply for increased feel, and to keep the club "on path?"

Very true! There is such a thing as "too light" of a swingweight! What is right for you can take some experimentation. Swing a shaft with no clubhead on it. It feels "empty". There's no "heft" to the club! You have to feel that to swing the club properly.

[joro]

12 hours ago, CCC said:

A higher swing weight helps me feel the club head thru my swing. I have a slow swing speed. I'm old.

If I could just lighten my grip on the club, I could feel a lighter, lower swing weight thru my swing.

The higher swing weight gives me a feeling of confidence. Golf is a game of confidence.

 

 

11 hours ago, Buckeyebowman said:

Very true! There is such a thing as "too light" of a swingweight! What is right for you can take some experimentation. Swing a shaft with no clubhead on it. It feels "empty". There's no "heft" to the club! You have to feel that to swing the club properly.

 

[Groucho Valentine]

14 hours ago, bwdial said:

Don't some guys like a little extra weight simply for increased feel, and to keep the club "on path?"

Yes. I weight down my wedges for that reason. Better tempo, too. I like the feel of a heavy club on a pitch shot or in the sand. I never take a full swing with my wedges anyway, so any disadvantages that come from weighting doesn't really matter there.