Stop generalizing about people based on their handicap.

[Harmonious]

  Rugger said:

Why do you think I am here being honest about my issues, asking 30 questions a day and practing a lot? I am trying to get better. I know I don't have a good swing. I am trying to recover from 18 years of baseball and put something decent together.

If you truly want to get better, you would be far better off if you didn't try to alienate the people (low handicappers) who are most likely to provide the assistance you need. I know that I have no desire to offer any suggestions to you; it's doubtful that you would be willing to listen, so why waste my time (and yours)?

[tws1098]

  Harmonious said:

If you truly want to get better, you would be far better off if you didn't try to alienate the people (low handicappers) who are most likely to provide the assistance you need. I know that I have no desire to offer any suggestions to you; it's doubtful that you would be willing to listen, so why waste my time (and yours)?

I think this thread is starting to spiral away from the original purpose...

Yes there are too many "you shouldn't do this or play that" based on a handicap number. I know it bothers me when someone says I shouldn't play this or that because my ball striking "must" not be good enough when in reality my chipping is horrid (although improving) and my handicap is just being established (2 scores). BUT at the same time, as mentioned, the low cappers are that way for a reason. For the most part they know more about golf in general, more specifically, some of the equipment and swing issues higher cappers have. So when it comes to my swing or issues they feel I may have, I am all ears...or eyes as the case may be.

[GolfBear]

I always find it interesting when any golf discussion devolves into how far any given player can hit a driver. In an average round you'll probably hit your driver 12 times. There's probably a 3w, maybe a long iron and probably 4 different irons on the par 3's. So if you shoot par that means 60 of your 72 swings will be with clubs other than the driver. If you were an exceptional putter you might have 30 putts per or more than double the number of drives. The driver might be the single most overrated club in your bag.

If you want your handicap to drop dramatically forget your driver and work on your game from 100 yards in. THAT's where you find the greatest gains!!! Players with low handicaps already know this. :)

[MiddleWest]

The unfortunate reality, IMHO, is that a large number if these generalities end up being accurate. I tend not to look at individual statistics (distance, as noted is nearly useless in correlation), rather, generalize about the number of critical mistakes that the player makes per round. I believe myself, an 8, makes more of these damaging mistakes than a 2. These can be penalties, short siding, etc. Although the handicap is a number, as mentioned, it is indicative if the game that is bring played. I think you are taking more of an issue with the way certain folks are using this information, and not necessarily the generalities themselves. It would be difficult to argue that these generalities aren't true in many cases.

[bplewis24]

  iacas said:

Now what I'm saying is relative - there's still a correlation, but it's not as strong as one of the strongest ones out there - low point, which I've already discussed above and which has an incredibly HIGH correlation to handicap index.

Low point almost sounds like "kick point" which has me thinking of the shaft of the club. But if I'm understanding correctly, low point is referring to where the sole of the club (iron) makes contact with the ground relative to where the ball is being played in their stance. Does that sound right?

Brandon

[Stretch]

The low point of the swing will correspond to the deepest part of the divot, I assume. Although, for a good swing, that won't be far away from the point where the club first contacts the ground, and both will be well in front of the ball.

[iacas]

  Stretch said:

The low point of the swing will correspond to the deepest part of the divot, I assume. Although, for a good swing, that won't be far away from the point where the club first contacts the ground, and both will be well in front of the ball.

A couple of inches. The low point of a PGA Tour pro is typically about three to four inches in front of the golf ball. That's why their divots are about six to eight inches long.

And yes, in front of the golf ball, always.

[nevets88]

  iacas said:

A couple of inches. The low point of a PGA Tour pro is typically about three to four inches in front of the golf ball. That's why their divots are about six to eight inches long.

I always notice and am amazed by that, especially when pros hit out of the rough, all that grass taken out is in front of the ball.

My divots are right at or an 1/2 inch ahead of the ball. I've been trying to get the low point more in front of the ball. It's so easy on a practice swing , but put a ball in front of your club and it's different. When I tee it up on a par 3 about an eight of an inch high with an iron, I can get the divot 3 inches ahead of the ball. Off the ground, once in a blue moon I get a divot 2-3 inches ahead of the ball.

[pittpanther]

  iacas said:

The low point of a PGA Tour pro is typically about three to four inches in front of the golf ball. That's why their divots are about six to eight inches long.

You are so correct, iacas. If I could do this, then hitting off of tight lies (or dirt, or even a cart path) wouldn't matter, as I would always hit the ball first, not the ground.

So how do I adjust to make this happen, repeatedly?

[James_Black]

  pittpanther said:

You are so correct, iacas. If I could do this, then hitting off of tight lies (or dirt, or even a cart path) wouldn't matter, as I would always hit the ball first, not the ground.

don't flip at the ball, I'd say nearly all high handicappers flip. I'm trying to get rid of my flip but it's hard.

[iacas]

  pittpanther said:

So how do I adjust to make this happen, repeatedly?

Weight forward

Don't flip - maintain the flying wedge That's about it. But to varying degrees and some other things can have smaller levels of influence (like ball position).

[acegolfer]

  iacas said:

Weight forward

I agree with the 2.

How about maintaining the spine angle (or inclination to the ground)? Isn't it necessary for a consistent ball first contact?

[bplewis24]

  iacas said:

Weight forward

This is exactly what I've been working on the past few days to correct my swing issues. I haven't had a chance to play a real round and see how much it has helped, but my range sessions have been going pretty well.

Brandon

[atrapasuenos]

I think the generalization comes because some people in here lie. Iacas made a comment that I think it's important. When I was about a 16 handicap, and I think all of us have experienced that, I believed that with better irons/equipment I could easily shoot in the 70's, and I hated when I asked for some clubs and the first things the sales man asked me was, which is your handicap? Oh, you're gonna have a hard time hitting this irons. I really hated that, becuase I believed I was a great ball striker, but the reallity was other. I used the Callaway X20 Tour, and I was shooting around 82-88 and I thought that blades was for me, I bought the AP2 and my scores went higher because I couldn't hit them.

Now I know how it feels to hit this irons better so I enjoy more my game. But sometimes the hardest thing to see, is the truth.

Cheers!

[Shanks A Million]

  atrapasueños said:

I think the generalization comes because some people in here lie. Iacas made a comment that I think it's important. When I was about a 16 handicap, and I think all of us have experienced that, I believed that with better irons/equipment I could easily shoot in the 70's, and I hated when I asked for some clubs and the first things the sales man asked me was, which is your handicap? Oh, you're gonna have a hard time hitting this irons. I really hated that, becuase I believed I was a great ball striker, but the reallity was other. I used the Callaway X20 Tour, and I was shooting around 82-88 and I thought that blades was for me, I bought the AP2 and my scores went higher because I couldn't hit them.

Exactly. I thought the reason I couldn't shoot lower was equipment, or this, or that, but never seemed to realize it was my swing. I would look for those magical irons that hit the ball just right, and I constantly changed equipment, looking for the equipment that made my game.

But it never happened. The other thing that people do that's a mistake, is to go the other way. They are a 15 handicap or so, and decide to go out and buy some really hard to hit irons, and tour type clubs. They hit them well at the shop, on the simulator, so they must be the right clubs, right? Nope. Get them to the course, and tell me how you feel when you're on the back 9 and it's hot, you're +25, and you have to nail them right on center to get them airborne, then tell me how you feel about them. Now I know that as long as the lie angle is right, and the shafts are stiff enough, and the grips are thick enough, that's really all that matters. I like some forgiveness too. No more searching for the right equipment. I've had my driver for about 3 years, and I still have no plans to upgrade anytime soon, after all, why fix what isn't broken?

[steelernation]

IMO whats been working for me is ebay, bought my driver for $20 included shipping.

I started with garbage irons from who knows where. I still play them to this date. Maybe walmart brand? Any kind of upgrade will probably help my game a little.

[plop]

Maybe a little off topic. Why this forum shows handicap in the first place? What's its advantage and disadvantage?

[iacas]

  plop said:

Maybe a little off topic. Why this forum shows handicap in the first place? What's its advantage and disadvantage?

Because it's relevant and useful information.