Improving scrambling = Improving index

[Gerald]

OK we have had the stats thread and there has even been started a new coursemanagement thread, but let's just face it a midcapper of let's say hc 10-12 will make GIR at maybe only 3-4 holes ... At the other holes he'll need to save par by hitting a great chip, pitch, flop, bump-n-run and great putting, mostly resulting in making a bogey (which means taking 3 shots from 20 orso yds.

I don't think it is easy to improve GIR, but putting some effort in improving scrambling will easely shave off 4-5 strokes.

What are your drills

[Zeph]

It all depends on where you miss it. I'd say go work on the full swing and start hitting more greens, and learn to miss in the right spot.

Drills for getting up and down? Go out on a course, drop balls all over the place and try getting down in two.

[MJP]

I like to pick 5 or so spots and drop 5 balls each. Then I just go in a circle and try and get closer with each new round because I have already felt the shot, but probably as much as 2 minutes before, not 10 seconds.

I think the best way to develop feel is to not try the same shot over and over. Unless its a shot you are struggling with really bad or is really challenging, like a 20-30 yard flop shot.

[ERdiesel]

I would think a 10-12 handcapper should be hitting more than 3-4 greens per round. i'm down to a 15 and I hit on average 4-6 greens a round (according to the stats). But i seem to lose strokes with putting. :(

I do agree with you in regards to mid handicappers lowering their scores by improving scrambling. My scrambling is horrible, according to my stats, i'm at only 13% in the past 5 rounds. For the greens that I don't hit, i'm usually off in the greenside rough by a short distance, and I pretty much always get it on the green with my chip but rarely within 3 feet of the hole for an easy up. Instead I seem to be in the 10 feet long or short of the hole range and with my horrid putting i hardly get an up and down and usually bogey out or double bogey if it's a particularly long lag putt.

So for me, at the range i really work on my wedges, from pw (125-130) and in to continue to increase my GIR. My local range just doesn't have a practice green for me to work on putting :(

[majorchamp]

OK we have had the stats thread and there has even been started a new coursemanagement thread, but let's just face it a midcapper of let's say hc 10-12 will make GIR at maybe only 3-4 holes ... At the other holes he'll need to save par by hitting a great chip, pitch, flop, bump-n-run and great putting, mostly resulting in making a bogey (which means taking 3 shots from 20 orso yds.

Heck based on the first sentence, I should be about an 8 handicap :) since I avg like 8 greens around haha.

last round I hit 7 greens (but putted like a madman). But I just looked at my card and stats... of the GIR, I played those holes 4 under par. The holes I hit fairways (5 of them), I played them even par. The holes I hit neither a green or fairway, I played 5 over.

[Gerald]

Two reasons why the average scratch player is so good at scrabling is that they get these aproaches really close and they putt about anything within 5-6 ft.

[MJP]

Not just that but a scratch players mishits are maybe 10y off the green at there worst of times. Couple close short game shots with being excellent at getting it close with the short game = Always within 5 feet. If a scratch player missed a green by 20-30y they'd have a much tougher time getting upndown

[soloredd]

I would think a 10-12 handcapper should be hitting more than 3-4 greens per round. i'm down to a 15 and I hit on average 4-6 greens a round (according to the stats). But i seem to lose strokes with putting. :(

Sounds exactly like my game right now. Today I had 6 GIRs in the round (all in a row coincidentally) but scrambling was only 8.3% today. Terrible. I have the same problem of not getting my chips or shots <30-40 yards within 1 putt distance. And my 1-putt distance is closer than a better players because my putting is so damn disgusting it's embarrassing (40 putts today in that round). Contrast that with my 84 round in August where I had 7 GIRs but a bit better 18.2% scrambling and 35 putts.

And it's not like my approach shots are topped irons that run up either. It might be 5 yard miss off the green or something and I still half-ass the chip and need to 2-putt or worse.

[colin007]

become a better ball striker and we hit it closer = less scrambling

i am firmly convinced that becoming a better ball striker is the best way to drop a handicap.

[Harmonious]

become a better ball striker and we hit it closer = less scrambling

Here's something to consider:

Say you have, on average, a 150 yard approach shot. If you are an 80 shooter, your miss is about 7%, or 31 feet from where you were trying to hit it. If you improve your ball striking to that of a par shooter, your miss drops to about 6%, or 27 feet. An improvement, to be sure, but not enough to appreciably lower your score. Instead of spending hours on the range trying to hit the ball 4 feet closer (you'll still miss your first putt) work on your short game. If you improve your scrambling from 20% to 40% for the 12 times you miss the green, you will have dropped 2-3 strokes. Work on your putting so you rarely 3-putt, and you'll save another stroke or two. Once your swing is to the point that you don't throw away strokes by topping, shanking, chunking and whiffing, the short game is where you will drop your score. It will allow you to score on those days when you aren't hitting it so well.

[Paradox]

Here's something to consider:

Its cyclic though because if you can hit the ball close to where you want it to go, you'll need to scramble less. My viewpoint is this...if you're full swing is in order, then you won't need to be chipping and pitching often. I think its a misnomer that to improve score you work on short game because if you're having to use your short game all the time then you're not doing things right from 100 yards on out. In the end, both ways will lead you to scoring better, but I just think the best overall approach is to get your full swing in check before going to the short game.

[Harmonious]

Its cyclic though because if you can hit the ball close to where you want it to go, you'll need to scramble less. My viewpoint is this...if you're full swing is in order, then you won't need to be chipping and pitching often. I think its a misnomer that to improve score you work on short game because if you're having to use your short game all the time then you're not doing things right from 100 yards on out. In the end, both ways will lead you to scoring better, but I just think the best overall approach is to get your full swing in check before going to the short game.

I disagree, and here's why. I'll use myself as an example. I'm down to scratch now (haven't changed my hdcp here yet), yet I average only 10 GIR per round. That means I have to scramble 8 times each and every round. If my up and down percentage was only 25% that means I have 6 bogies on my card. Fortunately, I have worked like crazy on those shots around the green to where I'm now around 60%. That means only 3 bogies.

No matter how good your swing gets, you will still miss a lot of greens if you are playing on regulation courses. I don't know where you picked the 100 yard number, but I rarely have less than 150 yards in; and some holes are closer to 200. At those distances, you will be missing a lot of greens. If the short game isn't working, it's a very frustrating day.

[Paradox]

I disagree, and here's why. I'll use myself as an example. I'm down to scratch now (haven't changed my hdcp here yet), yet I average only 10 GIR per round. That means I have to scramble 8 times each and every round. If my up and down percentage was only 25% that means I have 6 bogies on my card. Fortunately, I have worked like crazy on those shots around the green to where I'm now around 60%. That means only 3 bogies.

I picked the 100 yard number because its a distance in which its safe to say everyone is using a full swing. 60% scrambling is top 60 on the PGA tour. A relative handful of amateurs are going to reach that mark or even come close to it. Like I said though, its all cyclic and either way will produce lower scores..it all goes back to what your major faults are. Are you a poor chipper or are you a poor approach player? My only point was that its silly to expect to "get better" if you just take the approach that "I can just make my short game out of this world"(an unrealistic goal in and of itself) instead of trying to fix problems with your approach, as well. Simple concept that if I hit the green more times in a round, its less times I have to chip or pitch.

[MJP]

become a better ball striker and we hit it closer = less scrambling

Of course it is, but that depends a lot on how bad you're swing is to begin with. Plus, making swing improvements take much longer than short game improvement. If you're GIR are decent and the ones that you do miss aren't off by much, you're considered a poor short game player if you can't get it within 80-90% make distance (like 4-7ft) a majority of the time (probably that same 80-90% of the time) and then your scores will drop quick. Because a miss green and a 2 putt is the same as a hit green and a 3 putt. I'm pretty confident in saying most of the time I can get a pitch from 30y inside a lag putt from 100 feet.

If you can get the ball out there 250 pretty consistently and hit at least 1/3 of your greens, start working a lot more on the short game. If you can barely get the ball in the air, then hell yeah work only on the long game the most. It really depends on the player. If they are serious enough they will be keeping extensive stats so they know which part of the game needs the most work. However

[wrx_junki]

become a better ball striker and we hit it closer = less scrambling

For most, having a better short game will drop the handicap faster than being a better ball strike.

Making those 5-6 footers are crucial when I am scrambling since I am left with that distance quite often after a chip/pitch.

[ks8829]

I practice my short game two days for a total of 4 hours just before I played a round. I shot 78 getting up and down 4 out of 4 times on the front nine and 1 out of 6 times on the back nine. What I observed was because I practiced the short game my up and down to one putt and save par were much effortless and easier than ever.

I focus on distance control from 10, 20, 30 and 40 yards - got up and down 50% and just short of a few more saves with miss read putts.
full swing iron shot with my 60 degree wedge - best 6 irons I ever hit
sand shots - 2 out of 3 sand saves

Working on my short game and full swing I noticed the improvement and more confidence in my overall game.

[Gerald]

I picked the 100 yard number because its a distance in which its safe to say everyone is using a full swing. 60% scrambling is top 60 on the PGA tour. A relative handful of amateurs are going to reach that mark or even come close to it. Like I said though, its all cyclic and either way will produce lower scores..it all goes back to what your major faults are. Are you a poor chipper or are you a poor approach player? My only point was that its silly to expect to "get better" if you just take the approach that "I can just make my short game out of this world"(an unrealistic goal in and of itself) instead of trying to fix problems with your approach, as well. Simple concept that if I hit the green more times in a round, its less times I have to chip or pitch.

My time to disagree ......

The Tour average in GIR is about 65%, few are better and a lot are worse. These guys have handicaps like +4 or better ..... which means that even at this level they tend to miss 6 greens and will have to scramble to save par. I think the average midcapper and even the high single handicappers have a 15-20% max. (par) scrambling when they are really honest with themselfs...... only a very few really practice scrambling in the other 80%-85% this means a chip and 2 putts for bogey. Let's say if you are 15 yds off the green or make it only 5 yds, at most green you left yourself with a 50 - 100 ft scrambling shot to get it within 5-6 ft. to save par ..... if you succeed in 1 out of 5 times, not too bad ...... if you can get your self to 2 out of 5 nice, but if you get yourself to 3 out of 5 you are really on to something. Like Harmonious said, for us amateurs approaches will be more likely to be in the 150-200 yds. range, if you manage to miss only 9 greens, I think you are a hell of a solid player, if you have 20% scrambling your lowest possible hc is something like 12 (because you will also miss some fairways, etc.), but if you can practice your scrambling to let's say 50% you will reach about hc 0-5 and maybe even better, because the guy (or girl) who has a scrambling of 50% will probably also have the control to loose less shots on the way.

[Stretch]

Going back to the original question of what are your personal drills, I have started practicing around the short game green with just a single ball and resolving to make, say, 40 up and downs before I can quit. Then I just chip-putt out, pitch-putt out, lag from the fringe-putt out until I hit the number. Any time I take more than three to get down, I roll back the counter by one. It's more cumbersome and, frankly, less fun than just hitting a bucket of flop shots but I think it will ultimately pay off better out on the course. My putting remains the obvious weak link. According to my stats, I am only scrambling at around 20%, but I reckon that from a reasonable lie around the green I can get it to six feet or less about 60% of the time. Doesn't matter, though, if it still typically takes you two jabs from there.