SnT - If you had to teach a complete beginner

[kurisu]

And by beginner I mean someone who never touched a club, who never played hockey or baseball.
Where would you start?

I'm curious because in my own case, I know that before I could actually even start calling my swing "a swing", I had to groove a "basic" combination of moves from which my coach and I could start building a swing and correct positions.

My coach and I love to read about the various ideas and concepts of the golf swing (we exchange books all the time), and I just want to know whether everyone agrees that before you can even start teaching someone a swing, you have to clear a few steps and ingrain some moves that will ultimately not be part of the final product.

(re-reading my post I'm not sure I'm making much sense, but I think my first question should at least trigger an interesting discussion)

[newtogolf]

I'm not sure of the direction you're headed in, but I think I do. I think you would want to also extend the conditions to include that the "beginner" has never seen someone else swing as well. We're very good at being able to mimic what we see.

[iacas]

We teach beginners. They start hitting the ball first and drawing it. Fun.

You can pretty much go in the order of the stuff...

http://stackandtiltgolfswing.com/abo...asic-elements/

Weight Forward
Shoulder Down
Hands In
Straighten Leg
Arms Straight
Tuck Hips

You probably won't get past the first one or two for awhile, frankly, but the first one's the most important to get them to start hitting the ball before the ground.

[newtogolf]

We teach beginners. They start hitting the ball first and drawing it. Fun.

Just curious do you find it easier to teach someone completely new to the game or someone that has played before but does not have a good swing.

[kurisu]

Interesting.
So you say someone that is a complete "blank page" can immediately start hitting balls?

I certainly couldn't. The first time I had a club in my hand (before I took my first lesson the week after ) I literally hit a hundred air shots in a row. And I had seen other people swing and hit the ball. I believe it all comes back again to the very simple thing: what you think you're doing is different from what you are actually doing.
That's what I am trying to get at. No matter what method you're teaching, can you expect someone to execute properly, for example "shoulder down" from the get go?

It's been about a year since I first picked up a club and only recently can I "picture" movements in my head in order to exaggerate them. I feel I needed time to correctly correlate what I read/was told to do and what I was actually doing. In other words, I don't think _I_ could have executed instructions correctly from day one because I didn't have any frame of reference with my own body.
Of course every person is different and that in itself is the greatest challenge of an instructor, no matter what the discipline.

[iacas]

Interesting.

Yeah. We get them taking divots, hitting the ball in the air, and drawing it right out of the box.

That's what I am trying to get at. No matter what method you're teaching, can you expect someone to execute properly, for example "shoulder down" from the get go?

Yes... You can. If anything we find that sometimes new players exaggerate things a bit too much. They're more willing to try things because they don't have a built up list of flaws or pre-conceived notions.

[kurisu]

Yeah. We get them taking divots, hitting the ball in the air, and drawing it right out of the box.

While I can somewhat relate because at the beginning of my very first lesson my coach got me to actually hit the ball (a 100% improvement compared to hitting air shots), it blows my mind that someone that has absolutely no golf or baseball or hockey background can point blank start hitting a draw and pressing the ball.

I work hard, go at least once a week to the range atop my weekly lesson, work positions in front of a mirror at home, and I believe that was the right path for me, as I am seeing big improvements as far as "separation" or "differential" between the upper and lower body in the downswing/transition, but I had to fight 32 years of "instinct" and that I know I could not have done from day one because I didn't know anything else. You could have shown me and even moved my body in the right positions, I would not be able to reproduce them during the swing at the beginning. That's why I am wondering if I am alone in this (I doubt it)? I believe true incorporation of whatever swing you're being taught comes from a reference of "feels" and "images" that you're building for yourself in the first few months. THEN you can compare and work on "ok i should exaggerate this", or "tone down that", etc.

[Arthur]

When he's ready I am going to have my son learn the SnT method. Why? Because it works and makes a lot more sense than the other method.

[kurisu]

Nobody here is arguing that SnT is not a good method.

[sean_miller]

And by beginner I mean someone who never touched a club, who never played hockey or baseball.

IF someone never played hockey or baseball or tennis, etc. Yeah, SnT or vintage John Jacobs would be my suggestion.

[Stretch]

My wife swung a golf club recently for the first time ever. Off a mat at the range, she was hitting my 8-iron about 50 yards in the air, right to left in about 10 minutes. (Not to say that she didn't mix some interesting misses in there!)

I just told her to keep her weight forward, left arm straight and hands in on the way back. And I'd honestly say the "natural" swing she produced right away was quite a bit better than a lot of the lady hackers I see taking lessons at the course here and playing twice a week.

[O.B. Right]

We teach beginners. They start hitting the ball first and drawing it. Fun.

I believe this totally - it's amazing what somebody can do with a large bucket of balls and a good instructor standing behind them. If my instructor could be my caddie, I bet I could break 90 the very next time I play.

[ks8829]

The beginner first introduction to golf:

1) grip
2) posture
3) oh heck watch the video below:





watch this video and practice the basic swing, then have the beginner find a friend and join a group golf lesson. How old is the beginner?

[Stretch]

I believe this totally - it's amazing what somebody can do with a large bucket of balls and a good instructor standing behind them. If my instructor could be my caddie, I bet I could break 90 the very next time I play.

Bob Rotella has an anecdote about this. Apparently Tommy Armour made a very big wager with some members at his club back in the 1930s that he could get of them -- who had never previously broken 90 -- around in less than 80 strokes next time out. The condition was that he would walk with the player, pick his clubs and tell him exactly which shot to hit in each situation. The guy shot 79 and Armour won the bet.

[dizzle247]

Of all the people that are new that I've gone golfing with, the 3 things that I tell them are this.

Hands in this position (proper grip)
Keep your left arm straight (right if they're lefties)
keep your eye on the ball.

From there, I'll try and see what small things can make a huge difference in there golfing ability. The biggest mistake imo that a lot of newbies make when starting is trying to wack the crap out of the ball. It takes time to get them to changes there mindset so that there goal is to hit the ball square, instead of hitting the ball 1293898213 yards out.

[iacas]

The beginner first introduction to golf:

The problem with those things is that they don't get people swinging and they don't get people hitting the ball in the air.

Golf has a really, really high barrier of entry, and if you can teach people the proper things at the start, they'll break through the barrier faster and easier. Grip and stance? I doubt we spend two minutes on that stuff with beginners.

[mvmac]

What are things like grip and stance doing in a S&T; thread? Like Andy and Mike say the only real commonalities all good players share are
- Hitting the ground in the same spot every time
- Hitting it far enough to score
- Controlling the curvature of the ball

A beginner should feel what it's like to turn the shoulders in a circle and to set up with their weight favoring the lead leg.

[Zeph]

I'd put them on a boat, train or plane and send them to Erie.

On a more serious note though, getting proper instruction right away can save a player from years of frustration. I've always regarded S&T; as a swing and teaching philosophy that you gain more from the higher your handicap is. Very few people are able to find a somewhat good looking swing without instruction. If you get the stuff going in the right direction from the first swing, the player will be able to enjoy the game a lot more.

Recruitment are hard these days, helping new players hitting it good early on is the best way to get new members.