Driver distance vs. Handicap

[saevel25]

http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-instr...g-mike-shannon

this was interesting, and brought up two type of reading in greens, straight line versus curved line thinkings. I kinda like the following,

Focus your thoughts on the entry point of the cup, were the putt curves into the hole and you should naturally shift your aim to allow that to happen. This is more of an instinct way of putting, instead of saying i want to putt 3 feet outside the hole or pick a point to aim to, you put to a path into the whole. Its interesting. I kinda started doing this. I practice this a bit were i will just glance at the line then just go up and hit it. I will just naturally try to take my line. Its pretty inpressive how often you can make a putt like that. Instead of over reading it, just let instincts take over. I been using this more or less as a check. I can tell more lately if i am going to miss or make a putt, well a feeling if i got a good shot at it. Sometimes over the ball i will think, i don't think i got enough break on this. So i will adjust slightly till i feel comfortable..

Theres alot of trust i have to do, which is good. Because alot of times putting is all mental. Willing the ball into the hole.

[sean_miller]

http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-instr...g-mike-shannon

You've made groundbreaking improvements in driving, iron play, wedges, and obviously putting. You should update your index. Or is this just an overall increased sense of confidence?

[saevel25]

have i, well i made improvement in driving and putting.. My iron play is up & down this year. especially longer irons. My wedge game was good for about a month, then went away. My putting is were i made huge improvements. But i go off what my ending handicap was last year in league play to this year, i am two strokes worse. I was about 4.5 for 9 holes, i am 6 for nine holes now. The thing that really took a hit was the short game, i just can't chip. I actually started putting out of the rough, just because its better.

I feel like my swing makes one better swing per round, i was at an 8 for a while, got down to a 5, struggled a bit in the last two weeks of league and ended up at a 6 handicap for 9 holes. So, its been roller coaster ride, which i expected with making a few drastic swing changes.

[kurtbayne]

250-260, 7 handicap
of course earlier in the year, same distance, 14 handicap

I didn't read the other posts, but my gut feeling is that there is some correlation between driver distance and handicap, but it probably shows a stronger correlation the lower the handicaps are.

Like in the NBA, players show differences in court awareness, shotmaking ability, etc, but every one of them can dunk.

[thecanadiana]

230-240 19.0

I feel like I'm barely swinging at it just to keep it straight. I'm hoping as I learn more I can start amping it up a bit. My longest drive was at least 290 maybe 300 (well over the green on a 281 yard par 4)

[Yukari]

270 to 290 (9.3 HC)

Once in a while, if I catch it right on the sweet spot, I can get to 300. But on average, its around 270/280.

[Jameshooper]

250 - 260 with some roll....I'm an 11 Handicap.

[ghalfaire]

Since I have joined the forum I have seen more than a few discussions on handicap Vs distance with the driver. I believe that probably there is some correlation that would show that lower handicap golfers hit the ball further with a driver than their less skilled brothers. But as an engineer I can tell you that correlation and causality are two very different things. I certainly won't argue that it isn't easier to hit a wedge to green versus hitting a 7 iron. But let me suggest two things. First if you can't putt, chip, pitch, hit from sand or rough and control distance of your approach shots it won't make much difference how far and accurate you are with a driver. Secondly it is always possible to calculate an average of a sample group, but decisions about what is implied by that average can be tricky. Also if you extract the idea that there are no high handicap golfers that are not capable of driving the ball over 270 off the tee you would be wrong and conversely there are scratch golfers that don't hit drivers over 250. So I'll leave you with these thoughts, that statistical data are numbers that indicate the general characteristics of a group. But if you believe that implies that you can pull a single sample out of that group and it will have all those characteristics you are wrong. If we were talking about people we would call that a prejudice, in golf it is just an error in judgement. Also if you believe that because on average low handicap golfers hit the ball farther off the tee than high handicap golfer and so that is the reason they are lower handicaps, you would be wrong.

[newtogolf]

Driver distance is loosely related to handicap in that as a golfer gains experience his swing on all his clubs typically improves. With the improved swing, distance and control improved with all clubs as well. This is based on averages, someone who's only participating in driving distance competitions is likely to have longer drives, but a poor short game, so they fall outside the curve, just as women and seniors with great short games might not have the long driver distances but low handicaps.

In Golf is not a game of perfect, Dr. Rotella proposed an experiment where a hacker would play against Tom Kite, each would hit the first three balls on par 5's, first two on par 4's, and tee shot on par 3's. The hacker and Kite would then swap positions, thus the hacker would play the position of Kites ball and Kite would play from the hackers ball. Rotello hypothesized that Kite would still score lower because he had a better short game.

[saevel25]

Could we say more that those who hit it shorter use the wrong color tees, should they be playing back further or maybe the shorter players are playing a course distance to long for them. Just wondering if this should be considered in this discussion

[ghalfaire]

In Golf is not a game of perfect, Dr. Rotella proposed an experiment where a hacker would play against Tom Kite, each would hit the first three balls on par 5's, first two on par 4's, and tee shot on par 3's. The hacker and Kite would then swap positions, thus the hacker would play the position of Kites ball and Kite would play from the hackers ball. Rotello hypothesized that Kite would still score lower because he had a better short game.

I agree with the good Dr. and Kite would be the way to bet. An even better "experiment" would be to only have one, probably the Pro, hit a drive on a hole and then each play their own ball from there and see who wins. I would bet even using the Pro's drive the higher handicap guy wouldn't do much better than his normal scores, if at all better.

There isn't any doubt in my mind that it is the skills acquired to become a single digit handicap that causes the driving distance to increase, but the increased driving distance doesn't cause the lower handicap and if fact if you can drive the ball accurately 225 yards or better that is all that is long enough to be a single digit handicap if you have the rest of the game.

[sean_miller]

Imagine player A averages 225 yards off the tee (on driver holes) and his FIR stat is 80%.
He's paired with player B who averages 285 yards off the tee (on his driver holes) and his FIR stat is 60%.

Who wins this match? With comparable short games and putting skills, my money is on player B.

[Lefty-Golfer]

I agree with the good Dr. and Kite would be the way to bet.

I couldn't disagree more with the bolded comment. I think the scores would 5 to 7 shots better then normal. you are giving a guy who normally hits a handfull of fairways on a good day , a better lie from roughly 40 or more yards closer to the hole. unless he has the worst short game in history he is going score better then he typically does. and even if has the worse short game he would still have to be way ahead of where he typically is.

[max power]

I couldn't disagree more with the bolded comment. I think the scores would 5 to 7 shots better then normal. you are giving a guy who normally hits a handfull of fairways on a good day , a better lie from roughly 40 or more yards closer to the hole. unless he has the worst short game in history he is going score better then he typically does. and even if has the worse short game he would still have to be way ahead of where he typically is.

To say nothing of the shots the high 'capper would gain by not hitting any tees shots OB. Which is what amateurs/high 'cappers do.

[Stretch]

Imagine player A averages 225 yards off the tee (on driver holes) and his FIR stat is 80%.

Me too. And I'm player A!

[iacas]

Imagine player A averages 225 yards off the tee (on driver holes) and his FIR stat is 80%.

B, but you've made the disparity too large. 60 yards but only a 20% drop in Fairways? Easy. Give him a 40% drop (half) and it's a close match.

[MJP]

On the majority of courses I would much rather be hitting 9i from the rough than 6i from the fairway. Unless the pin is short sided and I need spin.

But still, being closer is very important.

Even with 40% hit fairways, I think B would win.

[iacas]

On the majority of courses I would much rather be hitting 9i from the rough than 6i from the fairway. Unless the pin is short sided and I need spin.

And what about the times you're behind a tree, or you hit it into a fairway bunker or a lake?

Accuracy is more than about fairway or rough. 40% implies someone who's pretty wild off the tee. They're going to make a lot of of bogeys or higher.