Padraig Harrington disqualified in Abu Dhabi

[Deryck Griffith]

I'm ok with people calling in.  I don't however agree with the dq'ing.  The rule should be changed where even if the card is signed, the effective penality (in this case, two strokes) should be applied the next day after review.  Still enabling the player to complete the tournament.

That would take away the maliciousnesses of people only calling in the rule AFTER the player has signed to purposly DQ him if they don't like him or are betting against him for whatever reason.

[sacm3bill]

It's customary for golfers to be taken at their word in certain circumstances. One example off the top of my head is an LPGA event a couple years ago where a player's ball went into a hazard and there was a question as to where it last crossed. The playing partner was sure it crossed the hazard early and never came out, but the player who had hit the ball claimed it crossed into the hazard laterally much closer to the hole. The difference in the location of the drop was substantial. In the end the player was allowed to drop farther up, since there was no video available and so the officials deferred to the player who hit the ball.

It's a similar situation here. No one but Paddy saw the ball move at all, so it's his call to determine where the original spot was. However, the onus was on him to call an official over to say "I might have just moved the ball but am not sure". The official likely would've radioed in to see if there was video of it. If there was, Paddy would've known to replace the ball a dimple and a half over. If there was not, the official would've said "You'll just have to make the call yourself", and Paddy would've been in the clear (even if video did surface later, since he had consulted with the official and had proceeded as advised.)

So I don't think this is an indictment of the system at all - Paddy simply failed to do his due diligence in consulting with an official.

[JayMc]

So in a casual round if I bump my ball in the process of removing my mark what should I do?

Should I just put my marker back on the green and reset my ball, obviously informing my playing partners of what happened?

[sacm3bill]

Originally Posted by JayMc

So in a casual round if I bump my ball in the process of removing my mark what should I do?

Should I just put my marker back on the green and reset my ball, obviously informing my playing partners of what happened?

There's no penalty if you bump your ball in the process of placing or removing your marker. You just need to put it back where it was. (I'm going from memory on this - if you want to be sure, just google it.)

[ejimsmith]

Originally Posted by westcyderydin

I know the rules and honesty are very important in golf, but this is going way too far.  Once the card is signed i dont think a penalty should be able to be imposed on that round...if the other players sign the card, then why not keep it at that?  Its getting dumb.

i agree with this.  if the card is signed and attested, its legit.  i think its total BS for someone sitting on their a** at home calling in and getting someone disqualified. and the more the tours allow people to do so, the more people will be closely watching tv, just waiting for someone to the smallest mistake.  total BS.

[sean_miller]

You enjoy watching golf your way and they enjoy it their way. Personally, I watch it to see the title sponsors' wooden interview.

Originally Posted by ejimsmith

Quote:

Originally Posted by westcyderydin

I know the rules and honesty are very important in golf, but this is going way too far.  Once the card is signed i dont think a penalty should be able to be imposed on that round...if the other players sign the card, then why not keep it at that?  Its getting dumb.

i agree with this.  if the card is signed and attested, its legit.  i think its total BS for someone sitting on their a** at home calling in and getting someone disqualified. and the more the tours allow people to do so, the more people will be closely watching tv, just waiting for someone to the smallest mistake.  total BS.

[basscat348]

What a croc of chit if you ask me.

[jamo]

Originally Posted by sacm3bill

So I don't think this is an indictment of the system at all - Paddy simply failed to do his due diligence in consulting with an official.

Or he could have lookeed at the video after the round.

[crayputter]

I don't get what the big fuss it all about....it was so obvious the ball moved when he removed his marker ! It doesn't matter if it was intentional or not, when you move the ball as you remove your marker on the green, it is a penalty. Forget about slow-mo, it was so obvious in the normal view !

Paddy should have known better. Poulter did.

And why the hell did he put his marker so close to the ball anyway ????

Ray

[Camo]

Paddy said, "If I'd called a referee over it would have been pointless because if he'd asked me where my ball was I'd have said it was there. As far as I was concerned it didn't move." camo sez, Welcome to the new tv game show, "DQ a Pro" Tv golf ratings should start to increase once the college kids turn it into a drinking game. Watching golf on tv used to be for golfing enthusiast , now it can be marketed to the MTV crowd, sit around and watch all the while looking for the slightest infractions so you can call in and get on espn highlights.

[Radford Wooly]

Leave the watching for rules infractions to the officials!!

[Camo]

Apparently that is now anybody with a couch ,tv and a computer.. Lol

[tristanhilton85]

Originally Posted by Deryck Griffith

I'm ok with people calling in.  I don't however agree with the dq'ing.  The rule should be changed where even if the card is signed, the effective penality (in this case, two strokes) should be applied the next day after review.  Still enabling the player to complete the tournament.

That would take away the maliciousnesses of people only calling in the rule AFTER the player has signed to purposly DQ him if they don't like him or are betting against him for whatever reason.

It could also lead to some golfers not counting a penalty in hopes that it slips by... if it doesn't then oh well they just get the strokes anyways.  I know that golf is a game of honesty but let's not forget that there are big bucks at stake in these tournaments and some people will try anything for money...

I think that while a DQ is harsh, it is also fair... those are the rules.  While it sucked for Camillo last week and Paddy this week and likely somebody else in weeks to come, I'd rather see them get things right than just ignore it.  If these guys don't want to get DQ'd they can always get a rule book or call over an official if they think there might be a problem.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamo

Or he could have lookeed at the video after the round.

Yup... he even acknowledged that he saw something although he thought it ended up in the same position... Since there was even a slight question about it in his mind he could have asked to see video of it BEFORE he signed his card.

[zeg]

Originally Posted by crayputter

I don't get what the big fuss it all about....it was so obvious the ball moved when he removed his marker ! It doesn't matter if it was intentional or not, when you move the ball as you remove your marker on the green, it is a penalty. Forget about slow-mo, it was so obvious in the normal view !

Paddy should have known better. Poulter did.

And why the hell did he put his marker so close to the ball anyway ????

Actually, if you're in the process of marking or unmarking, there is no penalty.  You just replace it where it belongs.  If that was the case here (I don't know, didn't see it), all that he would have had to do was touch the ball to move it to where it belonged and this would have been averted.  However, because of the "oscillation" discussion I assumed he had nudged it other than when marking, so a penalty would have been unavoidable unless it had returned to its original position.

Also, you have to mark close to the ball: if it's too far off, you can't claim to be accurately marking it.  It shouldn't be an issue, though, since there's no penalty for moving your ball when marking/replacing.

Originally Posted by tristanhilton85

It could also lead to some golfers not counting a penalty in hopes that it slips by... if it doesn't then oh well they just get the strokes anyways.  I know that golf is a game of honesty but let's not forget that there are big bucks at stake in these tournaments and some people will try anything for money...

I think that while a DQ is harsh, it is also fair... those are the rules.  While it sucked for Camillo last week and Paddy this week and likely somebody else in weeks to come, I'd rather see them get things right than just ignore it.  If these guys don't want to get DQ'd they can always get a rule book or call over an official if they think there might be a problem.

Exactly right.  The penalty must be extremely stiff for signing an incorrect scorecard to discourage gaming the system.  A DQ is harsh by design: it's not a fluke that the rule is as it is.  Further, in this case the player was aware that something had happened and made a factually incorrect judgement.  It's unfortunate, but if there's a question of rules, there are long-standing procedures for dealing with them.

The real error here, IMO, was Harrington's assumption that, in the absence of evidence, the ball had returned to its original position.  He moved it.  The onus is on him to be able to demonstrate that it returned, he can't just assume that.  He should at least have discussed it with an official, although I disagree that this could have avoided the penalty.  The official would only have been able to advise him that if he was uncertain, he needed to replace it and take a penalty (unless it was in the marking process).  He really should have taken the penalty "in case."  (But I understand that'd be hard to do... easy to say it from here, though.)

[The Recreational Golfer]

Perhaps there could be a rules official watching the broadcast and catching these infractions as they occur. The PGA Tour did this in 1991 until Tom Kite raised a stink after TV showed him dropping his ball in the wrong place (many yards ahead of where he should have dropped) after hitting into a water hazard. Other players joined the chorus and the practice was stopped. See Frank Hannigan's article in the January 17&24 Golf World.

[boogielicious]

I think the Pros need to use the mantra, "When in doubt, assume it is a penalty."  People are watching and with the speed of communication these days, it is inevitable the audience is going to call them out.  I like Harrington a lot, and I assume it was totally innocent.  But he knew it moved and should have talked it with an official.

I don't like tattletales, but golf fans are as passionate as other sports fans and are going to speak out.  Not me though.

[MSDOGS1976]

Originally Posted by boogielicious

I think the Pros need to use the mantra, "When in doubt, assume it is a penalty."  People are watching and with the speed of communication these days, it is inevitable the audience is going to call them out.  I like Harrington a lot, and I assume it was totally innocent.  But he knew it moved and should have talked it with an official.

I don't like tattletales, but golf fans are as passionate as other sports fans and are going to speak out.  Not me though.

The difference here was there was no doubt in his mind. The video showed he just went through the process in one normal motion with no hesitation on his part. He thought everything was fine. Maybe he and others will start calling for a rules official anytime something out of the norm happens. And instead of 5 hour rounds, there will be 6 hour rounds because of the fear of a TV ruling.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by crayputter

I don't get what the big fuss it all about....it was so obvious the ball moved when he removed his marker ! It doesn't matter if it was intentional or not, when you move the ball as you remove your marker on the green, it is a penalty. Forget about slow-mo, it was so obvious in the normal view !

Ray

Wrong.  The movement was a direct result of lifting the marker, so there would have been no penalty if he had replaced the ball.  The only thing Paddy did wrong was to not call in a rules official to make the decision.  When he saw the ball oscillate, that should have set off alarm bells.  If he waits for a ruling, he covers his ass because the RO's decision is final.  Whichever way the RO ruled, Paddy just goes with it, no penalty, and he's still playing today.