Hitting Up or Down with the Driver in an Inline Pattern

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Stretch

In practical terms, this just means you have to learn to adjust your aim at setup slightly to accommodate this type of shot pattern. If you go back to the first posts in this thread Erik lays out the geometry very nicely.

Yes, just aim left and then "straight-fade" (when I say pull- shape , push- shape , or straight- shape ["shape" being fade or draw] the first word is relative to body alignments) the ball it will start left of the target and fade back to the target.

[mvmac]

[Zeph]

Too bad I can't tell any of these datas on the range. The radars needs to get down to a $100 range. :P

[inthecup]

Originally Posted by Stretch

Here's another one from TrackMan that breaks it down by 5 mph increments and also details carry vs. total distance.

Can someone explain the difference between launch angle and dynamic loft?   I have a Vector Pro and it shows my launch angle with driver to be 16 degrees.  Backspin is averaging 2500 with an 8.5 degree driver.  My distances do align with the trackman chart on a well struck shot.

[saevel25]

Launch angle is the actual angle the ball leaves the clubface vertically.

Dynamic loft is the actual loft of the club at impact, which includes shaft lean, shaft loading, club loft, angle of attack, ect.

[inthecup]

That's interesting.  My launch monitor is a photo based monitor so it can only measure launch angle not dynamic loft.  I wonder if trackman is actually measuring that or calculating it.  If it is measuring it I am confused as to how?

[iacas]

Originally Posted by inthecup

That's interesting.  My launch monitor is a photo based monitor so it can only measure launch angle not dynamic loft.  I wonder if trackman is actually measuring that or calculating it.  If it is measuring it I am confused as to how?

It's calculating it.

[inthecup]

So the next question is how do I generate more club head speed?  I have a controlled swing using lag to generate the speed.  My motion feels like I am pushing the end of the grip towards the target.  I have not had success using my right hand to generate speed.  I do struggle to consistently draw the ball with driver.  Turns into a pull hook.

[cipher]

Originally Posted by inthecup

So the next question is how do I generate more club head speed?  I have a controlled swing using lag to generate the speed.  My motion feels like I am pushing the end of the grip towards the target.  I have not had success using my right hand to generate speed.  I do struggle to consistently draw the ball with driver.  Turns into a pull hook.

That's easy, just swing faster! In all seriousness, this is probably a question for your swing thread, maybe update your swing thread with a post and someone can help you.  It is probably tough for anyone to know what to tell you without seeing your swing.

[inthecup]

Originally Posted by cipher

That's easy, just swing faster!   In all seriousness, this is probably a question for your swing thread, maybe update your swing thread with a post and someone can help you.  It is probably tough for anyone to know what to tell you without seeing your swing.

I have tried that!  Shockingly it doesn't work.  Thanks I will try and get some good video.

[saevel25]

Originally Posted by inthecup

So the next question is how do I generate more club head speed?  I have a controlled swing using lag to generate the speed.  My motion feels like I am pushing the end of the grip towards the target.  I have not had success using my right hand to generate speed.  I do struggle to consistently draw the ball with driver.  Turns into a pull hook.

you can kill clubhead speed doing this. The thing about clubhead speed, you want to maximize it. Meaning if you lag way to much, it will be impossible to properly load the club into the ball with maximum force.

[Stretch]

Just for fun. This is my reprobate, 70-year-old golf buddy. Lefty, lifelong banana slicer, no distance, has to do it all with the short game.

Spent 5 minutes explaining the basic geometry to him, then changed his setup and ball position and moved his head back a few inches. Told him to swing at a tree on the left hand side of the driving range. Didn't touch his move, because I ain't no swing coach!

Obviously that one is cherry picked, but you should have seen his face! Mostly he hit small pushes, but his spin loft immediately went from 22 - 25 degrees to 10 - 13 degrees and -- for the first time -- he now knows what solid contact feels like.

Old dogs can learn new tricks ...

[Hollister]

Been tinkering with the driver over the past weeks, especially after seeing Mayo and James hitting-up-on-the-driver videos.

Then I read this article yesterday:

Measuring Discrepancies

We picked up a trend measuring driver heads. Taylor Made drivers all measure 2-3* higher loft than the number stamped on the sole plate. 11.5* on the sole plate can easily measure 15* on the gauge. We have never measured a Taylor Made driver that was under marked loft.

The normal response from a player who gets their driver measured at the Golf Lab – our free service – is to deplore Taylor Made quality control. “How could my 9.5* driver be 12*?”

Because Taylor Made planned it that way. Taylor Made sells hundreds of millions of dollars in drivers every year. In years past, it was no problem to deliver drivers within a degree of stated loft. If Taylor Made wanted their drivers to be perfect for loft – they would be.

Taylor Made knows better.

The Taylor Made marketing department figured out golfer psychology long ago. They know that no ordinary golfer will buy the driver that fits – left to his own methods. Since most drivers are sold by self-service at Big Box stores – TM provides their own version of Steve Jobs’ “reality distortion field”.

I went like "suuurrrre"... Go figure.

I still play the R7 425 10.5° from Taylor Made which gives a nice, piercing ball flight. OK, carry is 230 max plus a healthy 30 to 40 yard roll in dry conditions. Am trying to hit up on the ball, but still struggle to keep balance with the forward ball position and not push it.

Today I grap the 2008 Taylor Made Burner 10.5° driver of my golf buddy and try to hit up as usual. The ball went way up high in the air - really high - and landed at 230 with no roll. I hit twice the exact distance with it. I never hit such trajectory with a driver before. Both drivers have 10.5° printed on the hosel, but perform totally different.

Now I think the guys writing the above article may have been right. And I begin to see why the drivers with the adjustable may be a very good idea and investment. They are able to grow with your abilities to hit up on the ball. Need help, go to 12° - get better, lower it to 10 or even 8°.

Well, now I hurry and change the movable weights of my driver to promote a higer trajectory, might get a little more carry...

[colin007]

can you guys talk a little more about what would be good for a faster swinger?  im tall and flexible and athletic, so i generate speed pretty easily - im in the 115 range with the driver.

why is a negative or level AoA better for a faster swinger?

why is hitting up for a faster swinger more likely to create bigger ball flight curves?

[saevel25]

Originally Posted by colin007

can you guys talk a little more about what would be good for a faster swinger?  im tall and flexible and athletic, so i generate speed pretty easily - im in the 115 range with the driver.

why is a negative or level AoA better for a faster swinger?

why is hitting up for a faster swinger more likely to create bigger ball flight curves?

It isn't, for driver positive AoA is better for all swing speeds. The reason you see pro's have negative AoA is because its an old school method, and new knowledge is only recently comming out in the past 5-10 years. Golf is very resistant to change.

[colin007]

Originally Posted by Stretch

One other reason high-swing-speed players may choose to hit down is that they don't want to have too little spin loft. Remember that the lower the spin loft the more any given face/path differential will tilt the spin axis, and the more chance the player will have of over curving it. If you hit it really hard with an extreme positive angle of attack of +5 or so, you're going to be bending it Bubba style.

Originally Posted by saevel25

It isn't, for driver positive AoA is better for all swing speeds. The reason you see pro's have negative AoA is because its an old school method, and new knowledge is only recently comming out in the past 5-10 years. Golf is very resistant to change.

i was kind of referring to this post by stretch.  wanted more info if possible, to see if i should try this out with my highish SS.

[Stretch]

Wouldn't worry about it too much, as you have to be hitting up fairly extremely (say 5*+) before you start running into problems. The good thing about hitting up for high-speed players is it tends to lower your spin, so you don't have to trawl through the 10,000 threads on the Internet asking for the lowest-spin driver head and lowest-launching shaft.

[Mr. Desmond]

Been tinkering with the driver over the past weeks, especially after seeing Mayo and James hitting-up-on-the-driver videos. Then I read this article yesterday: I went like "suuurrrre"... Go figure.  I still play the R7 425 10.5° from Taylor Made which gives a nice, piercing ball flight. OK, carry is 230 max plus a healthy 30 to 40 yard roll in dry conditions. Am trying to hit up on the ball, but still struggle to keep balance with the forward ball position and not push it. Today I grap the 2008 Taylor Made Burner 10.5° driver of my golf buddy and try to hit up as usual. The ball went way up high in the air - really high - and landed at 230 with no roll. I hit twice the exact distance with it. I never hit such trajectory with a driver before. Both drivers have 10.5° printed on the hosel, but perform totally different. Now I think the guys writing the above article may have been right. And I begin to see why the drivers with the adjustable may be a very good idea and investment. They are able to grow with your abilities to hit up on the ball. Need help, go to 12° - get better, lower it to 10 or even 8°. Well, now I hurry and change the movable weights of my driver to promote a higer trajectory, might get a little more carry...

From talking w a few club makers recently , TM is now more accurate w stamped lofts. Callawaycalso had the rep of having lofts higher than the stamped lofts. The Quote above is from a club guy who tinkerered a lot, had a custom shop, and wrote about his tinkering.