Hitting Up or Down with the Driver in an Inline Pattern

[colin007]

Wouldn't worry about it too much, as you have to be hitting up fairly extremely (say 5*+) before you start running into problems. The good thing about hitting up for high-speed players is it tends to lower your spin, so you don't have to trawl through the 10,000 threads on the Internet asking for the lowest-spin driver head and lowest-launching shaft.

I have serious spin problems, even with a low launch X stiff shaft. Thanks Broseph!

[Hollister]

Originally Posted by Mr. Desmond

From talking w a few club makers recently , TM is now more accurate w stamped lofts. Callawaycalso had the rep of having lofts higher than the stamped lofts.

The Quote above is from a club guy who tinkerered a lot, had a custom shop, and wrote about his tinkering.

Well, good to know. Then the average good golfer would see different results hitting 9,5° drivers, right?

I am still playing old stuff, but was thinking about getting an R11, R11s or maybe an R1 - until I hit the R1. Compared to my old R7, there was not much gain to justify the change. Sad, but true. I try it again in late Summer.

I think that my swing is still the challenge to get more distance, not the new driver. Next I try to hit a few and have a TrackmanPro "look" at my drives and the AOA/dynamic loft. Will report later.

[Mr. Desmond]

Originally Posted by Hollister

Well, good to know. Then the average good golfer would see different results hitting 9,5° drivers, right?

I am still playing old stuff, but was thinking about getting an R11, R11s or maybe an R1 - until I hit the R1. Compared to my old R7, there was not much gain to justify the change. Sad, but true. I try it again in late Summer.

I think that my swing is still the challenge to get more distance, not the new driver. Next I try to hit a few and have a TrackmanPro "look" at my drives and the AOA/dynamic loft. Will report later.

If you hit the ball consistently in the right spot, new drivers won't change the spring-like effect - from what I've read, with the newest drivers, launch angle (higher) and COG has changed (more forward), they are more forgiving towards the edges of the face, and they are more compatible with the newer high launching, lower spinning ball. Heck, it's almost like pulling a recipe together to max out... calling Trackman or the other LM...

[dkling8]

My drives have always been pushes. I have to intentionally flip like crazy to be able to hit it straight.

Just to experiment, I tried playing the ball an inch FORWARD of my front foot, teed pretty high, hitting up. Here's the video:

Just from these two pictures, you can see how much ball position would affect my drives. I'm 6'3'' with long legs, and I've always gone with the standard "inside left foot" ball position. I'm reconsidering, especially since I've read some good instructors write that they "rarely find a student with the ball too far forward."

[iacas]

Originally Posted by dkling8

Exactly - play the ball back at all and the shaft will still not have lined up, and you'll hit pushes, push-cuts, and quick hooks.

Golfers who line the shaft up later (like the above) need to play the ball more forward with the driver. If they do the same with their irons, they need to learn to "throw" the clubhead a little more. (Of course, if the throwing also happens with the driver, the ball can go back to a more normal position again.)

[dkling8]

Originally Posted by iacas

If they do the same with their irons, they need to learn to "throw" the clubhead a little more.

With the ball more forward than usual, or in a neutral position? ( I assume a neutral position based on your next sentence, but I wanted to clarify).

For a swing with a later "release", w ould placing the ball further forward for irons cause AoA issues? Why do you recommend a bit of "throw" for irons instead of moving the ball up?

And would you recommend a little "throw" with the driver too?

[iacas]

Originally Posted by dkling8

For a swing with a later "release", would placing the ball further forward for irons cause AoA issues? Why do you recommend a bit of "throw" for irons instead of moving the ball up?

Because it would cause AoA issues, yes. You can't just delay the release and move the ball forward. At some point your AoA will be awfully close to 0 because the hands are going up faster than "releasing" that lag can send the clubhead down.

Originally Posted by dkling8

And would you recommend a little "throw" with the driver too?

If you line the shaft up too late, then yes. But again, people can have different patterns with the driver as with the ball on the ground… so which way you go for each student for both the driver and the irons depends on a variety of things.

[Crim]

It is fairly common to hear how a player is a great iron player but not-so-good driver or vice-versa. Trying to make the "same" swing is part of the problem.

Christ I wish I would have found this thread a few months ago....

[jgreen85]

where do hitting up and the Taylormade SLDR Loft Up campaign intersect? Separate conversations?

[saevel25]

where do hitting up and the Taylormade SLDR Loft Up campaign intersect? Separate conversations?

Not really. Hitting up just reduces the spin loft on a driver, and increases the launch angle. So, for the SLDR, its just something to be conscious off. Meaning you'll probably need more loft if you hit, because you will see a significant drop in spin rate.

So lets say you hit down on the driver, you use a 10.5 degree driver. Lets say you launch it at about 9.5 degrees with 3500 rpm. Now if you just swing up, you'll probably end up launching at 11 with much less spin. Now lets say you pick up a SLDR and hit up. You'll probably launch the same loft, but your spin rate will drop even more. So now you need to go to maybe a 12 degree driver. This way you can get some more spin to gain your optimal carry distance, and you'll probably end up launching it around at 13-15 degrees.

Not exact numbers, just tossing them out as reference.

[mvmac]

where do hitting up and the Taylormade SLDR Loft Up campaign intersect? Separate conversations?

It fits in with the high launch, low spin conversation. Hitting up helps you do that, most drivers on the market help you launch it higher with less spin. SLDR has the CoG low and forward where other drivers have it low and back. So that's part of why they want golfers to loft up.

[iacas]

So… you know how with many clubs, on the PGA Tour, the peak height is about 29-32 yards?

That's not necessarily the case with the driver. Have a look at these stats: http://www.pgatour.com/stats/stat.02407.2013.html .

Jason Day averaged 131' peak height, with a high of 162' and a low of 100' - his lowest drive was still several feet above the 30-yard "average" of other clubs.

In fact, you have to get down to T133 (of 180) before you find someone who hits it 90'.

Just thought that was worth mentioning…

[Golfingdad]

So… you know how with many clubs, on the PGA Tour, the peak height is about 29-32 yards?

That's not necessarily the case with the driver. Have a look at these stats: http://www.pgatour.com/stats/stat.02407.2013.html .

Jason Day averaged 131' peak height, with a high of 162' and a low of 100' - his lowest drive was still several feet above the 30-yard "average" of other clubs.

In fact, you have to get down to T133 (of 180) before you find someone who hits it 90'.

Just thought that was worth mentioning…

Interesting.  But just to clarify ... when Erik says "You have to go down to T133 of 180 to find somebody who hits it 90'" make sure you realize that those rankings are solely regarding height of drives.

I fear some might read that as the best 133 players all hit it high, when in fact, you will find several players doing well (most notably Jim Furyk, Adam Scott, Jordan Spieth and Freddie Jacobsen) with drives that average under 90' in height.

[iacas]

Interesting.  But just to clarify ... when Erik says "You have to go down to T133 of 180 to find somebody who hits it 90'" make sure you realize that those rankings are solely regarding height of drives.

I fear some might read that as the best 133 players all hit it high, when in fact, you will find several players doing well (most notably Jim Furyk, Adam Scott, Jordan Spieth and Freddie Jacobsen) with drives that average under 90' in height.

Yes, it's #133 on that chart, not #133 in OWGR or anything.

[cipher]

So… you know how with many clubs, on the PGA Tour, the peak height is about 29-32 yards?

That's not necessarily the case with the driver. Have a look at these stats: http://www.pgatour.com/stats/stat.02407.2013.html .

Jason Day averaged 131' peak height, with a high of 162' and a low of 100' - his lowest drive was still several feet above the 30-yard "average" of other clubs.

In fact, you have to get down to T133 (of 180) before you find someone who hits it 90'.

Just thought that was worth mentioning…

I have been wondering how this was supposedly not the case for a long time.  Cool to see that.

[late347]

I have massive problems, with driver...

I feel with my hands as though I'm coming over the top (not seemingly in "the slot" ) for good downswing path.

I dunno really... no verification on that feeling though.

most of my shots at the range are massive duckhooks or low altitude fades (ball goes about 10 yard apex altitude)

sometimes my duck hooks are basically rolling out into 260 yards actually... BUT I'D RATHER have that 260 yards in forms of carry distance

Improving the handicap becomes somewhat difficult when your driver shot is either a duckhook, or low altitude fade... There's just too much inconsistency.

Dialling down the driver swing doesn't seem to help either

I can hit my hybrids pretty much 220-230 yards carry.... more accurately (straight line) and more carry than my driver, so I definitely have problems with my driver swing.

[iacas]

I feel with my hands as though I'm coming over the top (not seemingly in "the slot" ) for good downswing path.

This thread isn't about that.

[late347]

Yes and no. Like i've said, hitting up with all variables the same, will yield greater carry distance. I teach players to try to strike ball as close to level as possible. I've just personally seen many golfers ruin their swings by simply moving the ball forward, swinging out to the right and pulling up on the handle. I never said anybody was wrong, simply that from my experiences you can't simply isolate one variable, that being AoA, and keep all others constant. [U]My experience has been alot of people talk TrackMan numbers like golf is played in a vacuum[/U], but really don't understand the variables that come into play. Heck, I struggle to get anything greater than +1 usually in the -2/+1/2* range and I don't consider myself a fast swinger or distance challenged.

This is underlined part looks highly ironical to my mind. A username called Radar Ninja, complaining about ineffectiveness and unrealisticness of Doppler Shift radar ... Does radar represent physical reality, does radar paint a picture of real world so to speak, what effect do radars have and what purpose? Sir, I hope you realize that Doppler Shift radar works perfectly fine in the real world. Nothing has happened to the laws of physics, in order to stop the doppler shift radar from working. Except stealth technology and radar-absorbant materials, but I don't think that golf balls are made with stealth technology but I might be wrong on that... The Air Force uses doppler radars all the time and they love them. F-22A Raptor is equipped with doppler shift radar, I guess you better call the Air Force and warn them if the radars don't work in real life !!! :-D Why would golf application of doppler radar be any different? Any different compared to tracking fighter aircraft at long ranges in the sky?