Master Teeing Off With an Iron Thread

[sacm3bill]

You need to understand what is being said in the paragraph:

Even though I know I'll never get through Winders' wall of denial, I'll keep posting for anyone else following our debate.

First of all, I don't know where you're getting this "lower on the equator = less perpendicular distortion" theory, but let's say for the sake of discussion that I'll grant that. Second, I've never argued that the force vector is directly perpendicular to the ground. You on the other hand have gone from saying there is no downward vector against the ground at all, to saying there *is* a downward vector from the distortion, just not at a right angle. Again, no argument from me. The vector does not have to be directly perpendicular to the ground for the ground to still exert a reactive force. Any vector at an angle lower than horizontal will result in a reactive force from the ground.

Regardless of the angle of the distortion the ball would have to be on concrete for it to have effect.

Again, how in the heck do you know this? Have you actually done any studying/measuring/research at all? Certainly the softer the ground, the less pinching effect there is. That's one reason you get less backspin out of a fluffy lie, or sand, or, oh yeah... off a tee!

And let me anticipate your response of "How much studying/measuring/research have *you* done?" by replying, "At least I've provided video that unquestionably shows a downward component of the ball". All you've done is give us armchair physics.

[Garthmo]

WOW what a "debate". But what ever anyone says there is no possible way for the ball to be compressed down against the turf and still get hit up in the air. The only way to get it to "compress into the ground is to hit it with a club that the face has no loft or a downfacing loft period. And in that case the ball wouldnt go anywhere. The wording used to trap the ball against the ground only gives the golfer an indication of how to hit the ball correctly and to stop trying to scoop the ball to get it into the air. Debate ended

[Fraser]

Only on the shortest of par 3s will I not tee it up. I played on a very short course with my wife on Friday (she's new to the sport) and it had a 105yrd hole. That was a PW without tee. Above 120yrds I'll be teeing it up, a touch.

[JimmyDoesGolf]

The only way to get it to "compress into the ground is to hit it with a club that the face has no loft or a downfacing loft period.

I agree entirely. If you just think about the way an iron hits a shot, it hits the ball before, or simultaneously as the ground on a good strike. The ball is in contact with the face for a split second, and the face is pointing upwards of the horizontal. The backspin is caused by the friction between the grooves of the club and the ball itself.

Yes, the ball is compressed, but it isn't pinched.

[sabram]

I know most experts, teachers and pros say to use a tee in order to get a perfect lie. I keep going back and forth betwen a bronen tee and no tee and more often than not I have better results without a tee, especially when I am using a hybrid. I can't explain it.

A few months ago I found a very skinny short tee with a very small top, apparently designed for irons/hybrids. I used it for several weeks with great results. I finallly lost it and tried a regular broken tee again and didn't have good results. It's probably all in my head, but I do well without a tee, but would love to find those real small tees in a store. They are not just short regular tees. The shaft is about half as thick as a regular tee and the top thast the ball sits on is about half the normal diameter.

[winders]

sabram,

It's all in your head. Just use a regular tee to get that perfect lie and swing away.

S-

[sacm3bill]

Another data point, this one from Greg Norman ( http://www.shark.com/sharkwatch/inst...n/lesson33.php ):

"Ideally, in fact, you want to hit the top-back quadrant of the ball, so that you squeeze the ball against the turf for a millisecond. That's what creates the friction that makes the ball spin."

I know, winders... it's all in his head.

[iacas]

I know, winders... it's all in his head.

You remain wrong. What a pro likes to say and what they "feel" happens doesn't change reality.

To get back to topic: you should always give yourself a great lie on a par 3. If I want to hit something a tad higher, I tee it up an extra groove or so.

[tm22721]

I'm the complete opposite. I can't get comfortable if I don't take a divot.

Same here. In fact I can't hit off mats any more because of that.

[DJYoshi]

Im with E.B. on this one. I always use a tee on a par 3. I'll tee it at the ground level for a regular shot...or i'll tee it up just a little bit higher (I don't really go by grooves since I'm OCD and it would have to be perfectly 1 or 2 grooves higher)...I tee it to a height that I think will produce my desired ball flight & is aesthetically pleasing. I wouldn't wanna shark myself on the tee box

[Wannabe Paper Tiger]

I tee it up. For me especially on weird distances that are in between clubs I prefer to swing a bit harder than try to swing easier or choke down on a club on par threes and teeing it up helps with confidence I suppose (with the perfect lie and all).

[Thrash13]

I used to always tee it up on par-3s, but that has changed the last couple weeks. Now, I usually just find a decent area on the tee box and let it rip. It might be a confidence thing, but it's been working for me. I never seemed to get consistent contact when teeing it up on par-3s.

[ynvmygp]

i do the exact same thing. i use to not use a tee about a year ago, then went back to a tee, now i stop using it. for some reason i like hitting right off of the tee box. i think that it is a confidence issue, being that i can hit my irons off of the fairway very well. it always seemed when i hit off of the tee, it was not consistent at all.

[immts007]

The only time I tee up is with driver. If I'm hitting an iron or wood, it's off the box. Probably because I'm a dork.

I'm more comfortable with the grass directly beneath the bottom of my ball as a target than I am with a ball suspended in the air by a tee.

[geezer]

To quote Jack;

"I found out a long time ago that air offers alot less resistance than dirt" (or something to that effect)

[iQuest Golfer]

To quote Jack;

I heard the same quote years ago and agree. On Par 3 tee boxes I tee it up enough for the iron to kiss the blades of grass before compressing the h*ll outta the ball.

Sometimes on a short Par 4 I'll hit a 3 metal or a hybrid off the deck. For me it's about a 70/30 proposition... and the 30% comes up at the worse possible time.

[hamletsdead]

Does anyone use the Laura Davies trick of pushing up a little mound of grass to tee off with instead of a tee?

I just stopped using tees with my irons a couple weeks ago because I kept swinging up like I was playing tee-ball instead of hitting down, and I'm now much more consistent. Just hit it the same way I would in the fairway. I even hit 3W off the deck from the tee box yesterday to remind myself to hit down a bit, and it worked better for me.

I seem to recall an article recently in one of the golf magazines recommending that you skip the tee and create a mound when you're trying to hit driver into the wind. You set it up in the middle of your stance and it -- allegedly -- vastly reduces spin, hence reducing slices and hooks. Thoughts?

[nevets88]

I tee it up so you can just barely see the top of the tee. I do this for fairway woods too, maybe a tad higher.

Remember Tiger Woods in the Open. I forget which, but he teed up a ball for a short iron just a tad higher than usual to get more spin on the ball on a par 3 and it worked. The ball didn't stop and roll back, but it stopped and went sideways a little on a hard green for a chance at birdie.