AimPoint Green Reading

[dsc123]

Yes, another slip.   There is only "down."   I took Express 1 & 2 lessons.

You're level gives you readings in different directions?

Is your confusion because if you place the level in different directions you get different readings?  As in parallel to your line you get one number but perpendicular you get another?

[BallStriker]

You're level gives you readings in different directions?

Is your confusion because if you place the level in different directions you get different readings?  As in parallel to your line you get one number but perpendicular you get another?

I "believe" he is saying that on medium to long putts, there are multiple different slopes or tilts along the putt line to the hole......

rkim, the key here for long putts is to find the biggest part of the slope in the middle third and calculate your read off that slope, and for medium to take the slope read at the midway point to hole

[Abu3baid]

Have you actually taken a class? I say that only because your question about x and y directions indicates to me that you don't understand how the ball rolls (i.e., downhill).  Also, what you're calling x and y directions would exist on every non-straight putt, right?  So you watched the read work on how many non-straight putts with, as you would say, both x and y direction?  I just don't really understand how you can have that question after attending the class. Regardless, what you're describing as two directions is taken into account in the math behind aimpoint.  Its more clear from the aimchart that is used for midpoint reads.  You measure the slope straight downhill, then look to the chart based on your distance and your angle relative to straight downhill.  I haven't taken an Express class but I did buy the DVD.  It seems like you take the slope perpendicular to the line of your putt, rather than the absolute slope downhill.  I suppose that approximates the slope + angle.  For example, a straight uphill putt under each method looks very different.  Midpoint--the slope is measured parallel to your line as a 3% slope, but since you're right on the zero line, the chart shows no break.  Express--the slope is measured slope perpendicular to your putt show that neither foot is higher than the other, and thus there's 0% slope in your putt.  With midpoint, as you move away from zero, the slope is constant but the chart shows the break increasing as your angle increases.  With Express, the slope increases as you move away from the zero line, increasing the break.   So the answer is to just trust it.  Or, if you haven't already, take a class.

I like the sound of midpoint, it sounds very scientific.. For express I was told to just add a % point to the break if it is an up hill and take a % point away if it is downhill, (something about it breaking less as it goes down hill). [quote name="rkim291968" url="/t/45791/aimpoint-green-reading/600_10#post_1137396"] Yes, I have taken the course.    My use of x & y is for lack of precise terms.   By x & y, I am saying slopes going up & down, left to right, diagonal, etc..   I was using my digital level terms for lack of better wording.   [/quote] I think you just need to practice a little more on your practice green.. Do a few old reads and go put a mark at your aimpoint.. Then go back to the spot and do the same read with aimpoint and go mark it.. Then putt to both spots and see what happens.. Do that from different places with different slops.. Also, you need to check and make sure you are calibrated correctly, so calibrate your self on your practice green to make sure you have the right arm bend for the stimp at your course.. It might take some time, but eventually I think you will exclusively use aimpoint!

[Golfingdad]

I "believe" he is saying that on medium to long putts, there are multiple different slopes or tilts along the putt line to the hole......

No, that is not what he's saying.  He's just talking about how the slope is at an angle to the putt ...

The one in bold.    I am not worrying about double breaking putts for now.

Do you mean that its not just up and down, but diagonal, i.e., uphill and left?

[Golfingdad]

I like the sound of midpoint, it sounds very scientific.. For express I was told to just add a % point to the break if it is an up hill and take a % point away if it is downhill, (something about it breaking less as it goes down hill).

I think you got that backwards.  (downhill putts take a lot longer to get where they're going, hence MORE break, all else equal)

[rkim291968]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkim291968

Yes, another slip.   There is only "down."   I took Express 1 & 2 lessons.

You're level gives you readings in different directions?

Is your confusion because if you place the level in different directions you get different readings?  As in parallel to your line you get one number but perpendicular you get another?

I used the level in one direction to measure slope going up or down, and use the level in perpendicular manner to measure slope going left to right.   I.e, I am using the level correctly.   Despite what was described above, that's not the issue.   When I don't use the levels, it's not easy to get the correct feel for slopes, and apply right putting direction.   Things get more complicated (and more margin for error) when slopes running in multiple directions (left to right, as well as up and down), and/or it's a long putt with possible double breaks.     I got few Aimpoint putts right when the putting line was pretty straightforward (only left to right slope) and of certain distance (15 feet or so).  Then again, I knew my course greens well and can't tell if it was the Aimpoint or I was just making a good putt.   So, I need to put more practice into it and see if my investment was good or not.

To answer Abu & GolfingDad points above, yes, I have calibrated my level.   Yes, I can assure you that I understand all the logic behind Aimpoint.    Take away the level, and I am as good as what my feel says and it's sometimes terribly wrong.   I can only trust it when it's a simple putt of 15 - 20 feet length but I do those well already.

[Ernest Jones]

No, that is not what he's saying.  He's just talking about how the slope is at an angle to the putt ...

That's what I think @rkim291968 is saying too. There's still only one down. @rkim291968 I think you're just overthinking this. With express you just need to identify which foot is higher and then teach yourself to assign values from 1-4 based on severity of slope. Don't worry about what angle the putt travels across that slope because that isn't your concern. Just read it on the midpoint and go.

[dsc123]

I used the level in one direction to measure slope going up or down, and use the level in perpendicular manner to measure slope going left to right.   I.e, I am using the level correctly.   Despite what was described above, that's not the issue.

Is that how you're instructor showed you to do it?  Which number did you use?

I think you're supposed to put the level perpendicular to your line and that's your number.  Your only number.

[Abu3baid]

I think you got that backwards.  (downhill putts take a lot longer to get where they're going, hence MORE break, all else equal)

Haha.. Face palm.. :)

[Ernest Jones]

Is that how you're instructor showed you to do it?  Which number did you use? I think you're supposed to put the level perpendicular to your line and that's your number. Your only number.

Bold text is important and may be what's tripping you up. There's a lot of information your brain can mull over, but none of it is relevant in AE. Just get your number and go with it. If I think the slope changes drastically at the end of a putt I'll read it a little closer to the hole but only if it's a DRASTIC change. If it's a double breaking putt just split it in two and read each section separately ie: take a read at the 1/4 mark (or midpoint of the first section) and another one at the 3/4 mark, then combine them. This takes a little more practice, but really, I can't even remember the last time I had to do this.

[RFKFREAK]

Bold text is important and may be what's tripping you up. There's a lot of information your brain can mull over, but none of it is relevant in AE. Just get your number and go with it. If I think the slope changes drastically at the end of a putt I'll read it a little closer to the hole but only if it's a DRASTIC change.

If it's a double breaking putt just split it in two and read each section separately ie: take a read at the 1/4 mark (or midpoint of the first section) and another one at the 3/4 mark, then combine them. This takes a little more practice, but really, I can't even remember the last time I had to do this.

Agreed.  The sense that I've gotten was that AimPoint Express is a simplified version of MidPoint and wheres perhaps less accurate, Express is quicker and easier to use.

[rkim291968]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkim291968

I used the level in one direction to measure slope going up or down, and use the level in perpendicular manner to measure slope going left to right.   I.e, I am using the level correctly.   Despite what was described above, that's not the issue.

Is that how you're instructor showed you to do it?  Which number did you use?

I think you're supposed to put the level perpendicular to your line and that's your number.  Your only number.

Toward the end of the sessions, we got into long putts & taking aimpoint measures in two different sections, adding/subtracting numbers from your "only" number based on how stiff a slope is, etc..   Is that right out of mid-point sessions?     Maybe, I've got too much info too fast, and was trying to do too much.

[Ernest Jones]

Agreed.  The sense that I've gotten was that AimPoint Express is a simplified version of MidPoint and wheres perhaps less accurate, Express is quicker and easier to use.

I've taken both courses and used both methods. Express, IMO, is plenty accurate, and I don't use midpoint at all anymore. Both methods are excellent, and both require that you disregard any "extra" info your brain wants to chew on like grain, the mountains, the ocean and whatnot. I just don't like carrying around a chart and pacing off putts. I got pretty fast at it but I really do find that AE is good enough for my purposes. I may be off a tad on some reads but my speed and line isn't always perfect anyway so...under read but hit to fast = might go in and over read but hit too slow = might go in. The main thing for me is that because I have absolute trust in my number I can make a confidant stroke and because I NEVER read the putt as breaking the "other" way, even my misses break towards the hole leaving me easy cleanups on my second putt.

[Missouri Swede]

I like the sound of midpoint, it sounds very scientific.. For express I was told to just add a % point to the break if it is an up hill and take a % point away if it is downhill, (something about it breaking less as it goes down hill).

I think you got that backwards.  (downhill putts take a lot longer to get where they're going, hence MORE break, all else equal)

@Abu3baid ,

Was that in your AE class?  That adjustment doesn't sound familiar to me at all (levels 1 and 2 classes).

[Ernest Jones]

@Abu3baid ,  Was that in your AE class?  That adjustment doesn't sound familiar to me at all (levels 1 and 2 classes).

It's just a compensation for putts that are REALLY up or downhill. Time plays a huge roll in how much a ball will break (the longer it takes to get to the hole, the more TIME gravity had to affect the break) so if it's enough of a slope you will need to compensate your read a bit. It's pretty intuitive and I do it without even really noticing that I'm doing it. Basically you're reading the putt as if it's on a faster or slower stimp.

[BallStriker]

I've taken both courses and used both methods. Express, IMO, is plenty accurate, and I don't use midpoint at all anymore. Both methods are excellent, and both require that you disregard any "extra" info your brain wants to chew on like grain, the mountains, the ocean and whatnot. I just don't like carrying around a chart and pacing off putts. I got pretty fast at it but I really do find that AE is good enough for my purposes. I may be off a tad on some reads but my speed and line isn't always perfect anyway so...under read but hit to fast = might go in and over read but hit too slow = might go in. The main thing for me is that because I have absolute trust in my number I can make a confidant stroke and because I NEVER read the putt as breaking the "other" way, even my misses break towards the hole leaving me easy cleanups on my second putt.

Great post

[Golfingdad]

I've taken both courses and used both methods. Express, IMO, is plenty accurate, and I don't use midpoint at all anymore. Both methods are excellent, and both require that you disregard any "extra" info your brain wants to chew on like grain, the mountains, the ocean and whatnot. I just don't like carrying around a chart and pacing off putts. I got pretty fast at it but I really do find that AE is good enough for my purposes. I may be off a tad on some reads but my speed and line isn't always perfect anyway so...under read but hit to fast = might go in and over read but hit too slow = might go in. The main thing for me is that because I have absolute trust in my number I can make a confidant stroke and because I NEVER read the putt as breaking the "other" way, even my misses break towards the hole leaving me easy cleanups on my second putt.

There is a little extra bit I get from Midpoint and I'm now wondering if that is lost on Express.  Example:

I go to take a read and get 3%, 30 up on a 12 foot putt.  I check the chart and it says 8, lets say.  But the "number" isn't the only thing I got, I also got a reminder that it's an uphill putt.  It's a subtle little "built-in" reminder that I have to hit it.

When you do Express, do you get that reminder still, or are you SOLELY getting the difference from foot to foot to get your number?

[Ernest Jones]

There is a little extra bit I get from Midpoint and I'm now wondering if that is lost on Express.  Example: I go to take a read and get 3%, 30 up on a 12 foot putt.  I check the chart and it says 8, lets say.  But the "number" isn't the only thing I got, I also got a reminder that it's an uphill putt.  It's a subtle little "built-in" reminder that I have to hit it. When you do Express, do you get that reminder still, or are you SOLELY getting the difference from foot to foot to get your number?

Not sure I'm reading your mail on this one Drew...do you mean you're reminded by the fact that you're reading the 30 up number as opposed to the 30 down number??? Once I have my "number" I start to get my feel for weight, during that part of my routine I'm drinking in the look of the putt and feeling how heavy or lightly I need to stroke it. Distance control is all intuition for me.