The Dan Plan - 10,000 Hours to Become a Pro Golfer (Dan McLaughlin)

[x129]

Handicaps across systems are not comparable. If you want to say he would be a 25 in yours, fine. I think he might even be  higher since you would still be counting rounds from when he was a much worse golfer. Doesn't change the fact he is a ~8 in the one he is keeping score in.

As far as swing, it is good enough to be an 8 in the us system. I have seen worse swings in guys that in the 3-5 range and better looking ones in guys that shoot in the 90s.    Dans posted this on his blog a while back: http://thedanplan.com/stats.php . It explains pretty clearly why you can look like a 20 handicap but have a handicap around 12. Personally I find it depressing how bad of putter/chipper he still was in November. I would have thought he would have been right around scratch as a putter after putting in 500+ hours. In the stats every other round is a poor putting one which makes me wonder if that is some course specific thing (maybe he memorized the greens on one course and has the higher score when he plays on another, maybe some weather effects,...) but shooting at a +2 level and then the next round being a 20 level seems like a huge swing.

Originally Posted by Shorty

Do you think this "handicap" of his has been tested in competition play? I doubt that under our sytem he would even be 23.

Can a serious golf fan really look at those videos and see anyone other than a nice bloke having a hit but lacking any real ability or aptitude?

I know that I might sound rude, but  from what I see in a system where you manage your own handicap and play on a range of tees where you choose ones  where all par 4s are reachable in 2 and some par 5s are reachable in 2 by poor golfers, I don't take it seriously.

Three times in the last year , we have had visitors to our club who have rocked up to have a hit in our Wednesday competition. All three American blokes - and all really nice guys - claimed handicaps . 7, 12 and 5. The guy off 7 had 16 stableford points. That equates to 98 off the stick.  The guy off 12  had 21, from memory,( equates to 97) and the one off 5 had 111 in a stroke event. And one of them thought that you were entitled to a Mulligan on the first.

When I look at Dan's swing and think of guys I know off 9 and ones off 25, he is closer to the ones off 25, but probably worse.

He can call his handicap anything he likes. I would bet money that at this stage he wouldn't break 100 off mens back tees at a half decent course.

His "handicap" is like the ones we see at the Pebble Beach Pro-Am. They're either 12 or "about a 5".Or, of course the "scratch" Kenny G.  What you actually see indicates otherwise.

NOw...I know that there are probably millions of golfers out there who have no choice but to administer their own handicaps and do it correctly and fairly.

But...If you look at Dan and see an 8 marker, you are seeing something very different from 8 markers that I see.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by x129

Handicaps across systems are not comparable. If you want to say he would be a 25 in yours, fine. I think he might even be  higher since you would still be counting rounds from when he was a much worse golfer. Doesn't change the fact he is a ~8 in the one he is keeping score in.

As far as swing, it is good enough to be an 8 in the us system. I have seen worse swings in guys that in the 3-5 range and better looking ones in guys that shoot in the 90s.    Dans posted this on his blog a while back: http://thedanplan.com/stats.php . It explains pretty clearly why you can look like a 20 handicap but have a handicap around 12. Personally I find it depressing how bad of putter/chipper he still was in November. I would have thought he would have been right around scratch as a putter after putting in 500+ hours. In the stats every other round is a poor putting one which makes me wonder if that is some course specific thing (maybe he memorized the greens on one course and has the higher score when he plays on another, maybe some weather effects,...) but shooting at a +2 level and then the next round being a 20 level seems like a huge swing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shorty

Do you think this "handicap" of his has been tested in competition play? I doubt that under our sytem he would even be 23.

Can a serious golf fan really look at those videos and see anyone other than a nice bloke having a hit but lacking any real ability or aptitude?

I know that I might sound rude, but  from what I see in a system where you manage your own handicap and play on a range of tees where you choose ones  where all par 4s are reachable in 2 and some par 5s are reachable in 2 by poor golfers, I don't take it seriously.

Three times in the last year , we have had visitors to our club who have rocked up to have a hit in our Wednesday competition. All three American blokes - and all really nice guys - claimed handicaps . 7, 12 and 5. The guy off 7 had 16 stableford points. That equates to 98 off the stick.  The guy off 12  had 21, from memory,( equates to 97) and the one off 5 had 111 in a stroke event. And one of them thought that you were entitled to a Mulligan on the first.

When I look at Dan's swing and think of guys I know off 9 and ones off 25, he is closer to the ones off 25, but probably worse.

He can call his handicap anything he likes. I would bet money that at this stage he wouldn't break 100 off mens back tees at a half decent course.

His "handicap" is like the ones we see at the Pebble Beach Pro-Am. They're either 12 or "about a 5".Or, of course the "scratch" Kenny G.  What you actually see indicates otherwise.

NOw...I know that there are probably millions of golfers out there who have no choice but to administer their own handicaps and do it correctly and fairly.

But...If you look at Dan and see an 8 marker, you are seeing something very different from 8 markers that I see.

Comparing other countries' handicapping system is very relevant because it's the Australians, South Africans, Koreans, etc that Dan will be competing against - without handicaps. He's gonna get smoked.

[Shorty]

Originally Posted by x129

Handicaps across systems are not comparable. If you want to say he would be a 25 in yours, fine. I think he might even be  higher since you would still be counting rounds from when he was a much worse golfer. Doesn't change the fact he is a ~8 in the one he is keeping score in.

But we're talking about someone who some here think has the game to be  a pro!

In our system, your handicap is your best 8 of the last 20 x .93. In competition only.

A friend of mine plays off 1. Of his 8 "flagged" rounds, his worst score is 2 over par.

He is a very good amateur, but not even close to be playing big amateur events.

People here are always talking about a handicap being your "potential",  but they misunderstand what it means in handicapping terms.Your handicap isn't 8 if it's your "potential", meaning that's what you could shoot in ideal conditions at some time in the future, rather than what you comfortably shoot now maybe 4 out of every 20 rounds.

But when you get down to a very low handicap it's different. A good 2 or 3 marker should have about half of his rounds at, say 4 over and a couple at par or 1 or 2 over.  At that level, you have  a great short game and have to be consistent.

Dan is goung to be at best, a decent club golfer. And there's nothing wrong with that.

You can see that he lacks power and finesse.

I just fail to believe that people can seriously say that they think he "might make it".

It just makes me wonder whether they've actually ever seen a good player in the flesh.

It's like when they say that someone like Jerry Rice could make it on the Champions Tour.

Look out Vijay.

[Th3R00st3r]

He's 1/4 of the way there and he has improved leaps and bounds.. then again as he gets closer to a lower hcp, it will get a lot tougher.

[Williamevanl]

Dan Plan mile stone, he is starting year three now!

Last 5 scores, 82, 91, 85, 90, 91...

[Rudyprimo]

As far as thinking that anyone can become a professional or world class at something if they practice for 10,000 hours, it's not true.  I just finished reading the book The Talent Code, and nowhere in the book does it say that.  All it says is that 10,000 hours of deep practice is something that these world class performing people have in common.  There are a lot of other factors that go into that.  One thing is called "The Rage to Master".  Another thing is having a "Master Coach".  Dan doesn't look like he has either of these things going for him.  He looks like he's enjoying himself getting attention and becoming a minor celebrity.  He doesn't have the "rage to master" golf.

Tiger has it of course.  His father instilled it in him at a very young age.  I think the fact Earl was Special Forces was a big reason Tiger got such great training.  If it's one thing the Armed Forces does right is training.  They train people fast and that training stays with them practically forever.  And Earl went through some of the toughest training there is.  He knew how to apply that training to Tiger.

I disagree, and so does that book, that there's a natural born anything.  Especially for golf.  It doesn't take strength, speed or any skills out of the ordinary.  It takes a lot of practice and doing things the right way.  If Earl Woods had been a truck driver or an accountant or whatever, Tiger would just be Eldrick and not a professional golfer.

Someone brought up that Tiger could shoot whatever score he shot at 8 years old as proof he was a natural, ignoring the fact that by that age he already had around 7 years of of deep practice and training.

Anyway, getting back to the "rage to master", Greg Norman is another good example of it.  When he decided he wanted to be the best golfer in the world, his training went like this.  He arrived at the course before sunup and did his stretching.  Then he played and practiced til dark.  Then he hit the gym and after that swam laps in the pool.  The next morning he was back before sunup doing it over and over again.

That's what it takes to become the best at something.  Dan doesn't look motivated enough to practice and train like that.  He might become a scratch golfer which is very good, but there's a huge difference between a scratch golfer and a professional.  I've read quite a few comments by pro golfers and others who know, like Larry Nelson said in an interview with Golf Digest, that there's about a 15 stroke difference between an amateur who is scratch and a pro and if Dan becomes scratch, it's still a long way from becoming a pro.

As far as someone being a natural golfer, I'll end with these two quotes:

You must work very hard to become a natural golfer.
- Gary Player

There is no such thing as a natural touch. Touch is something you create by hitting millions of golf balls.
- Lee Trevino

[soon_tourpro]

He is dedicated and severly needs a better plan.

He isnt consistent enough at his level.

seeing him hitting 3 balls and all over the course shows he needs a better coach and plan.

[Shorty]

Originally Posted by Rudyprimo

As far as thinking that anyone can become a professional or world class at something if they practice for 10,000 hours, it's not true.

Correct.

There is a difference between an expert having done 10,00 hours in the past and someone thinking that they have to do 10,000 hours in the future.

As I've said many times, Dan seems like a very nice bloke who has the potential to become a reasonably proficient club golfer.

[x129]

The people that succeed credit hard work. Those that do the hard work and fail blame lack of talent. Both are right.

Quote:

You must work very hard to become a natural golfer.

- Gary Player

There is no such thing as a natural touch. Touch is something you create by hitting millions of golf balls.

- Lee Trevino

[bunkerputt]

"The ability to work hard for days on end without losing focus is a talent. The ability to keep absorbing new information after many hours of study is a talent." --Garry Kasparov

It's also hard work to figure out a consistent way to swing.  The mind moves the body.  I haven't practiced chipping every day, let alone chip thousands and thousands of balls.  I just commit to a method for consistently correct technique and setup that I devised from years of reading about it and thinking about it and trying to figure it out.  Feel for distance comes very very quickly, I mean like days or weeks, when you strike every chip pure with the same amount of loft and spin every time.  Technique is a requirement for elite level improvement.

[pumaAttack]

I think there is a lot of jealousy in this thread...

So what if he never makes it to the PGA Tour, at least he is giving it a shot.  We are all envious that he can spend 6 hours a day, 6 days a week playing and practicing golf.

There is no need to put the guy down, he is doing what he wants to do.  I think it makes for a great story and wish him the very best.  Maybe one day I can have enough income to finance such a dream.

[Gresh24]

Originally Posted by pumaAttack

I think there is a lot of jealousy in this thread...

So what if he never makes it to the PGA Tour, at least he is giving it a shot.  We are all envious that he can spend 6 hours a day, 6 days a week playing and practicing golf.

There is no need to put the guy down, he is doing what he wants to do.  I think it makes for a great story and wish him the very best.  Maybe one day I can have enough income to finance such a dream.

I don't agree.  Just because many have the opinion that he won't make it, or describe the harsh reality of his chances, does not mean anyone is jealous of him.

[pumaAttack]

Originally Posted by Gresh24

I don't agree.  Just because many have the opinion that he won't make it, or describe the harsh reality of his chances, does not mean anyone is jealous of him.

Then why the hatred shown in this thread?  Jealousy, envy....

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by pumaAttack

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gresh24

I don't agree.  Just because many have the opinion that he won't make it, or describe the harsh reality of his chances, does not mean anyone is jealous of him.

Then why the hatred shown in this thread?  Jealousy, envy....

Sounds like the only one jealous of Dan is you.

[Gresh24]

Originally Posted by pumaAttack

Then why the hatred shown in this thread?  Jealousy, envy....

We have a very different definition of hatred...

[Mr3Wiggle]

Originally Posted by Gresh24

We have a very different definition of hatred...

I don't know about hatred, but there are definitely some haters in this thread.  I hope the dude accomplishes his goal.

[RichWW2]

Originally Posted by pumaAttack

I think there is a lot of jealousy in this thread...

So what if he never makes it to the PGA Tour, at least he is giving it a shot.  We are all envious that he can spend 6 hours a day, 6 days a week playing and practicing golf.

There is no need to put the guy down, he is doing what he wants to do.  I think it makes for a great story and wish him the very best.  Maybe one day I can have enough income to finance such a dream.

I will agree with others when I say that there is not jealousy, but more of a realistic view of life.  It's my opinion you can't just wake up one day and decide to be professional athlete.  Now whether he can make it is up for debate as there is still 3 years to go.  Can he become a very good/great (near scratch) golfer? Probably.  But making the PGA tour? Very doubtful.

[pumaAttack]

Originally Posted by sean_miller

Sounds like the only one jealous of Dan is you.

Envious, sure.  I wish I could spend 6 hours on the course each day instead of at work.

I wish the best of  luck to this guy, unlike most in here who are tearing him apart for trying.