The Dan Plan - 10,000 Hours to Become a Pro Golfer (Dan McLaughlin)

[David in FL]

Originally Posted by keeps21

Is he uploading videos anywhere else? There doesn't seem to be any recent ones on his site...

The last video I can find in from over 6 months ago.

His last trackman results were last month.  Here....... http://thedanplan.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/Dan-Plan-2013-01-25-Multi-Group-Report.pdf

I have to believe he's using video as part of his swing analysis and lesson plan.  He should have a ton that he could share.  Wonder why he doesn't.  It would certainly document his real progress, probably better than his blog does.....

I'd also really like to see the full results of every round he plays.  Even if it's just course rating, slope, yardage and score.  Throw in a few key stats and a sentence or two comment and that would be a lot more informative than the kind of generic blog he tends to do now.

[Big C]

Originally Posted by MyrtleBeachGolf

My understanding is that Dan also chooses which rounds of golf to actually submit for his handicap. Some rounds he deems 'practice' rounds and does not submit them for his official handicap. This alone would mean to me that his handicap is not truly a 5.9 or whatever it's currently listed at?

This criticism is only valid if Dan is deciding retroactively which rounds are practice and which are postable. If he declares/decides before the rounds begin and adheres to it, how would that have any impact on the legitimacy of his handicap?

As a sidenote, I am going to go against the grain here and suggest that I do think Dan will finish in the "+" territory. His 3,800 hours are weighted heavily towards the short game, so I have to think that there is still substantial improvement with the driver and long irons forthcoming. What will be impossible to predict is how his mental game will hold up to the rigors of tournament golf when there is something truly significant on the line. But I have no problem believing that he can get his handicap down to a legitimate +3 or better, and I'm really rooting for him to do so!

[newtogolf]

Originally Posted by Big C

This criticism is only valid if Dan is deciding retroactively which rounds are practice and which are postable. If he declares/decides before the rounds begin and adheres to it, how would that have any impact on the legitimacy of his handicap?

It wouldn't if he's deciding pre-round whether the round will count towards his handicap or not.  Some people start a round not declaring the purpose of the round until they start and see how it goes.  If they play well they count it, if not they play poorly, it's a practice round and doesn't count.

[MyrtleBeachGolf]

It wouldn't if he's deciding pre-round whether the round will count towards his handicap or not.  Some people start a round not declaring the purpose of the round until they start and see how it goes.  If they play well they count it, if not they play poorly, it's a practice round and doesn't count.

I didn't realize you could pick and choose which rounds count towards your handicap and which ones are just practice rounds. I submit every round I play. I was under the impression that's how it works. It's not really a true measure of anything if you are only submitting your best rounds in order to get a vanity index for the sake of making a point in a blog.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by MyrtleBeachGolf

I didn't realize you could pick and choose which rounds count towards your handicap and which ones are just practice rounds. I submit every round I play. I was under the impression that's how it works. It's not really a true measure of anything if you are only submitting your best rounds in order to get a vanity index for the sake of making a point in a blog.

But like Big C and newtogolf already said, if he decides prior to the round that they are going to be practice rounds, then he's not picking his best rounds to get a vanity index.  In that case, he's just saying that "I'm going to be experimenting with different shots, or playing 2 balls from different places, or putting to a bunch of potential hole locations, therefore it shouldn't count."

If that is the case, it's no big deal.  Seems quite accurate, in fact, because when you're doing those things, you're not really playing by the rules anyway.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Rouleur

It's funny, I guess some people just prefer to get 38% through learning something, then try and forecast what the 100% will be like based on a totally hypothetical assessment of their potential talent or ability, and if they don't like what they see, just quit.

I think some of us simply realize how difficult 6 -> 0 is (let alone 6 -> +5?). We're basing our conjecture on our experiences (including what we've seen others go through).

Originally Posted by Williamevanl

Well it only took 30 pages to get that out of you. :P

Pretty sure I've said it before. Maybe not here. :) I don't really give this thread much thought - one man isn't going to prove anything except that it may be possible, but we already knew that because there are guys playing on the PGA Tour who have put in 10,000 hours of practice (and many with fewer).

Originally Posted by MyrtleBeachGolf

My understanding is that Dan also chooses which rounds of golf to actually submit for his handicap. Some rounds he deems 'practice' rounds and does not submit them for his official handicap. This alone would mean to me that his handicap is not truly a 5.9 or whatever it's currently listed at?

Sure it can be. Rounds where you hit four balls or otherwise just "practice on the course" aren't really "golf."

If he decides beforehand not to count the round, then there's no harm in that. If he is +7 after three and decides suddenly it's a practice round, well, that's not good.

[sacm3bill]

Originally Posted by iacas

Pretty sure I've said it before. Maybe not here. :) I don't really give this thread much thought - one man isn't going to prove anything except that it may be possible, but we already knew that because there are guys playing on the PGA Tour who have put in 10,000 hours of practice (and many with fewer).

Right, If he succeeds it won't prove that *anyone* can do it, only that he was able to do it. Whether because it only takes 10,000 hours or whether he just happened to have enough natural ability in addition to that, we'll never know.

But if he fails, after 10,000 hours, then it *will* prove that *not* everyone can do it - i.e., that practice alone won't make you elite. You have to have some natural ability as well.

I.e., Dan succeeding won't prove the positive, but him failing will prove the negative.

[CraiginKSA]

At my club, we book tee times on line.  You can choose Regular, Scramble, or Other for the type of round.  If you choose Regular, the handicap committee will look for the same number of regular rounds vs. posted scores.  If they're not in agreement, then you may get an adjustment.  Dan needs to make sure he's posting all his legitimate rounds as a gauge as to where he really is progress-wise.

It's scary how fast those unplayables, lost balls, and yipped 2 footers add up.  For the higher handicaps it's not so bad.  Could turn a 99 into a 103, but so what.  For a 6 or better, those strokes are round-killers, turning a 78 into an 82.

[Rudyprimo]

I think too many people have misconstrued what the 10,000 hour rule means. It's more of an arbitrary number, or average number of hours that one needs to practice to reach your peak performance at sports, music, math or whatever your chosen field is. Some people reach their peak after 5000 hours and others may take 25,000 hours. Really it's just saying that it takes many, many hours of dedicated practice to achieve something. Besides, this 10,000 rule is just a small part of what it takes to become world class at something. No where in the book does it say that 10,000 hours of practice can make you a great athlete, musician or what ever. There's way more to it than that. Yet that's what everyone talks about as being the most important thing to succeed. It takes 1000's of hours of practice to turn the nerves that you are using to control whatever it is your body is doing, like in Dan's case the golf swing, into super conductors. With that much practice the myelin sheath that surrounds the nerves builds up thicker and thicker making the nerves a much faster conductor which allows your body to turn that into motion faster and with less thinking about it. That's an important part of the process to achieve peak performance but it's not really the most important part either. Maybe the most important part is having a supremely dedicated drive to be the best at something and not letting anything stop you from reaching your goal. No matter how many setbacks you have, no matter how many lulls there are where it seems you are not making progress, no matter how many people tell you that you won't achieve your goal, you have to remain fiercely dedicated. That's where, in my opinion, Dan falls short. Seems to me that he is doing this as an experiment, that he's enjoying the process and the fact that he's getting some fame out of it. He seems too relaxed and not driven enough in the videos I've seen of him practicing. Greg Norman is probably the best example of someone who was driven to be the best golfer in the world. After he came to that decision he worked and practiced as much as humanly possible and didn't let anything get in his way. He used to show up at the golf course while it was still dark and do his stretching in the parking lot. Then from sunup to sundown, he was playing and practicing. Then he would go to the gym and workout and then swim laps in the pool. Then it was time to go to sleep and get back up before daybreak and do it again. And again and again and again. I don't see that level of dedication in Dan's videos. Like I said, there are many different factors in becoming a world class performer at something, and putting in 1000's of hours of practice is just a part of the process. No where in the book does it say that 10,000 hours of practice will make you a world class performer, yet that seems to be the #1 thing that every one talks about and gets out of the book. I hope Dan can make it to the tour or have some kind of success but I don't think he will.

[jbishop15]

Originally Posted by Rudyprimo

Maybe the most important part is having a supremely dedicated drive to be the best at something and not letting anything stop you from reaching your goal. No matter how many setbacks you have, no matter how many lulls there are where it seems you are not making progress, no matter how many people tell you that you won't achieve your goal, you have to remain fiercely dedicated. That's where, in my opinion, Dan falls short. Seems to me that he is doing this as an experiment, that he's enjoying the process and the fact that he's getting some fame out of it. He seems too relaxed and not driven enough in the videos I've seen of him practicing. Greg Norman is probably the best example of someone who was driven to be the best golfer in the world. After he came to that decision he worked and practiced as much as humanly possible and didn't let anything get in his way. He used to show up at the golf course while it was still dark and do his stretching in the parking lot. Then from sunup to sundown, he was playing and practicing. Then he would go to the gym and workout and then swim laps in the pool. Then it was time to go to sleep and get back up before daybreak and do it again. And again and again and again. I don't see that level of dedication in Dan's videos.

I think that the fact that he spent a month on one foot putts shows dedication. Also, I don't think it's fair to say that just because he's enjoying the process or the fame, that he isn't working as hard as he could. Some people don't act like Norman or Tiger when they work hard; stone faced silence is not the only way to be focused.

[Williamevanl]

Quote: Lovinitall 8/11/2012

If Dan's routine wasn't documented the way it is and someone said, 'Hey, this guy is a 6 HC and he played the first round of golf in his life 12 months ago.', I'd think that was pretty good. If he's not at least a 3 in the next 12 months (given that he actually plays golf 4x or more per week), I'll be far more willing to concede that he's beating a dead horse re: his stated goals. That will be two solid years of playing golf, and it's where I'd expect a very avid golfer that played or practiced everyday to be after two years. The whole 'putting for six months' is not how most (any) of us approach the game.

*bump, Dan's handicap just updated for the season. He's now at a 6.9. So, after a year of practicing everyday his handicap remains basically the same. (did get down to 5.7 at one point) I don't think he can keep this up for another year. (6066 hours left)

Last 10 scores:

H	3/13	83	69.6/129	11.7
H	3/13	84	70.4/131	11.7
A	3/13	83	71.7/123	10.4
A	3/13	81	71.9/137	7.5
H	3/13	91	73.2/137	14.7
AI	3/13	87	72.0/128	13.2
AI	3/13	84	72.0/128	10.6
AI	3/13	83	71.7/123	10.4
AI	2/13	79	68.7/118	9.9
AI	2/13	87	72.4/133	12.4
AI	2/13	87	71.9/136	12.5

[Golfingdad]

*bump, Dan's handicap just updated for the season. He's now at a 6.9. So, after a year of practicing everyday his handicap remains basically the same. (did get down to 5.7 at one point) I don't think he can keep this up for another year. (6066 hours left) Last 10 scores: [TABLE] [SIZE=10pt][TR] H 3/13 83 69.6/129 11.7 [/TR] [/SIZE][SIZE=10pt][TR] H 3/13 84 70.4/131 11.7 [/TR] [/SIZE][SIZE=10pt][TR] A 3/13 83 71.7/123 10.4 [/TR] [/SIZE][SIZE=10pt][TR] A 3/13 81 71.9/137 7.5 [/TR] [/SIZE][SIZE=10pt][TR] H 3/13 91 73.2/137 14.7 [/TR] [/SIZE][SIZE=10pt][TR] AI 3/13 87 72.0/128 13.2 [/TR] [/SIZE][SIZE=10pt][TR] AI 3/13 84 72.0/128 10.6 [/TR] [/SIZE][SIZE=10pt][TR] AI 3/13 83 71.7/123 10.4 [/TR] [/SIZE][SIZE=10pt][TR] AI 2/13 79 68.7/118 9.9 [/TR] [/SIZE][SIZE=10pt][TR] AI 2/13 87 72.4/133 12.4 [/TR] [/SIZE][SIZE=10pt][TR] AI 2/13 87 71.9/136 12.5 [/TR] [/SIZE][/TABLE]

And based on those last ten scores you listed he's playing more like a 9 or 10 than a 6. He's gotta get his butt in gear!

[marvin]

Originally Posted by Williamevanl

*bump, Dan's handicap just updated for the season. He's now at a 6.9. So, after a year of practicing everyday his handicap remains basically the same. (did get down to 5.7 at one point) I don't think he can keep this up for another year. (6066 hours left)

Last 10 scores:

H

3/13

83

69.6/129

11.7

H

3/13

84

70.4/131

11.7

A

3/13

83

71.7/123

10.4

A

3/13

81

71.9/137

7.5

H

3/13

91

73.2/137

14.7

AI

3/13

87

72.0/128

13.2

AI

3/13

84

72.0/128

10.6

AI

3/13

83

71.7/123

10.4

AI

2/13

79

68.7/118

9.9

AI

2/13

87

72.4/133

12.4

AI

2/13

87

71.9/136

12.5

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

And based on those last ten scores you listed he's playing more like a 9 or 10 than a 6. He's gotta get his butt in gear!

At first I envy him for being able to play golf every single day without having to worry about anything else. Now, I kinda feel sorry for him. After sacrificing a lot of time, money, and effort in the last year, he is still struggling to become a scratch.

[Beachcomber]

He's running out of money... I saw he is trying to get sponsors to sign up and help fund his game.  They said he needs ~ $50/day to survive.

[newtogolf]

Originally Posted by Beachcomber

He's running out of money... I saw he is trying to get sponsors to sign up and help fund his game.  They said he needs ~ $50/day to survive.

It will be tough for him to get sponsors when he appears to be stuck at a plateau.  Sponsor interest is driven by his chances to reach his goal, after a year of no progress I doubt anyone is in a rush to write him a check.

[clutchshot]

It will be tough for him to get sponsors when he appears to be stuck at a plateau.  Sponsor interest is driven by his chances to reach his goal, after a year of no progress I doubt anyone is in a rush to write him a check.

Eh... He is generating a lot of attention and followers, should be able to get some kind of advertising dollars going... But, yes, I don't see any major club manufacturers jumping on board yet...

[RetroJFrancisco]

You need some sort of natural ability to even get to a LOWISH handicap I would say, Ive seen some people who play 5times a week (full 18, and 50 balls before on the turf) and still not improve, some people are just not able to progress, given 100 golfers I would say less than 5 would make it down anywhere near 0, even with alot of practice..

Still, very interesting idea :)

[soon_tourpro]

Originally Posted by RetroJFrancisco

You need some sort of natural ability to even get to a LOWISH handicap I would say, Ive seen some people who play 5times a week (full 18, and 50 balls before on the turf) and still not improve, some people are just not able to progress, given 100 golfers I would say less than 5 would make it down anywhere near 0, even with alot of practice..

Still, very interesting idea :)

anyone can make that.
Its true that 9% or so of all golfers make it into single handicap.

its even true that even less become scratch.

That is how good current golf instruction is and has been.

The way the golf swing is taught makes it that hard and complicated.

Dan have done a good job but he needs to work even less and better mechanics wouldnt be a bad idea.

I spent the last 3 years working trough golf instruction, re-defining it making it both easier and simpler and importantly effective.

and it looks like this currently for one of my students

Looking at Dan´s plan I would work it way differently.

The skill set one needs to make scratch or better is due to high consistency in every facet of the game and you basically cant make mistakes.

Its also highly mental to be able to handle the pressure when your having a good round and just keep it going, and one area Dan has issues with.
The 10000 hour is a guideline, you can make it in 2000hour or 30000 hours, and all comes down to is consistency.

If your ballstriking is good enough mistakes wont happen.

Currently that is what Dan cant do and then mentally the pressure shows he needs to work on that.