The Dan Plan - 10,000 Hours to Become a Pro Golfer (Dan McLaughlin)

[Lihu]

I wish I had the health to get to a 5 HC.

The only thing potentially holding you back health wise is distance, which you have. So, this is not going to hold you back. I think it's possible within one season for you to get there even with an 8 degree off line drive.

[pullfade]

It's all perspective. Scratch isn't shi*t in the grand scheme of things. I picked up golf at 13 and was scratch by 16. Go to an AJGA event, thousands of kids in all age groups are scratch or better, how many of them will make to to the PGA Tour, 1% maybe? Sounds like a lot of you in this thread picked up the game later in life and have a different view than myself of how good a 5 handicapper is. You most likely don't get to see too many players that are scratch or better, which makes sense if you're a recreational player. Once you start entering the arena of high level amateur events, college golf, state opens, qualifiers, etc all you see is + players and there are TONS of them, everywhere, on virtually every part of the globe.

I totally get it, I started playing the guitar at 27, now three years into it it's embarrassing telling people I've played for that long. I can watch 8 year old kids on YouTube shred and I feel like in my entire lifetime I won't be able to obtain half the skill that they already have.

[nevets88]

Quote:

Originally Posted by David in FL

Not my intent, but the vast majority of golfers simply play a couple of times a month and think that because they want to get better, they will. It takes more than that. It takes working towards getting better, which is more than most do.

That, in addition to the fact that there is so much misinformation and bad instruction out there that it's tough to figure out what a good plan to get better is and what's not.

I know, for me, it's hard to imagine ever shooting in the 70's and, if you had told me when I first started that shooting in the 80's was possible, I would have thought you were on drugs, but I'm somewhat hopeful that maybe one day, that'll happen for me.  As it is, I still suck but I know that's on me and how hectic my life can be sometimes.

This is the gist of what I got from The Dan Plan. Especially w/limited funds, more susceptible to this.

I think there's a lot good intention to truly improve students but not knowing enough good information or thinking that one's information is correct but it isn't.

[RandallT]

This Pebble Beach thing made me realize something that was always sitting right there in front of me, but I forget from time to time (oddly and mistakenly thinking that "scratch" is somewhat near the pros): Pebble Beach blue tees are rated 74.7/143 (http://www.pebblebeach.com/golf/pebble-beach-golf-links/yardage-and-ratings) For a 5 handicap, that's a course handicap of 6. (http://www.usga.org/playing/handicaps/calculator/calculator_results.asp) Again, per the USGA, how well should a 5 handicap player play? They would AVERAGE the rating + course handicap + 3= 83.7 (http://www.usga.org/handicapping/articles_resources/How-Well-Should-You-Play-/) That's amazing, a 5 handicap player will average nearly an 84 at Pebble Beach. Extrapolating the other direction from the PGA scores to a handicap number, the median Sunday score (better players for the week, I grant you) was about a 71. That's 12.7 shots better than a 5 handicap would average, so these guys are roughly playing better than a +7 handicap level just to be a median player in a final round on tour. Again, I have seen the numbers before in different fashions, but somehow it's hitting home that these guys are good. Dan has a long way to go, and it ain't ever gonna happen. As for whether or not a 5 handicap is any good or is difficult to attain, I would say it's pretty darn good (from my perspective as roughly a 12), but I'm way closer to a 5 handicap than a 5 handicap is to a pro. WAY closer.

[pullfade]

This Pebble Beach thing made me realize something that was always sitting right there in front of me, but I forget from time to time (oddly and mistakenly thinking that "scratch" is somewhat near the pros):

Pebble Beach blue tees are rated 74.7/143 (http://www.pebblebeach.com/golf/pebble-beach-golf-links/yardage-and-ratings)

For a 5 handicap, that's a course handicap of 6. (http://www.usga.org/playing/handicaps/calculator/calculator_results.asp)

Again, per the USGA, how well should a 5 handicap player play? They would AVERAGE the rating + course handicap + 3= 83.7 (http://www.usga.org/handicapping/articles_resources/How-Well-Should-You-Play-/)

That's amazing, a 5 handicap player will average nearly an 84 at Pebble Beach.

Extrapolating the other direction from the PGA scores to a handicap number, the median Sunday score (better players for the week, I grant you) was about a 71. That's 12.7 shots better than a 5 handicap would average, so these guys are roughly playing better than a +7 handicap level just to be a median player in a final round on tour.

Again, I have seen the numbers before in different fashions, but somehow it's hitting home that these guys are good. Dan has a long way to go, and it ain't ever gonna happen.

As for whether or not a 5 handicap is any good or is difficult to attain, I would say it's pretty darn good (from my perspective as roughly a 12), but I'm way closer to a 5 handicap than a 5 handicap is to a pro. WAY closer.

Yea, and thats a +7 playing the final round in a PGA Tour event. Imagine what their caps would be if they could include casual rounds, as well as throwing out half of them.

And You're right. You are way closer to a 5 handicap than a 5 handicap is to a median pro on the PGA Tour, it's not really even comparable.

[Torres9]

While I can agree it's all relative. If you are comparing a 5 hcp to PGA Touring pros, but those comments about 5 hcp easy, it's just plain ridiculous. How about compare a 5 hcp to the rest of the people on earth who golf, not PGA touring pros? Please take a look at those numbers. I'm convinced some of this absurd statements are presented to do nothing more than solicit responses. It's like putting down a degree from Harvard saying it's so easy, but you carried a 2.0 from your community college...

[iacas]

Pebble Beach blue tees are rated 74.7/143 (http://www.pebblebeach.com/golf/pebble-beach-golf-links/yardage-and-ratings)

Extrapolating the other direction from the PGA scores to a handicap number, the median Sunday score (better players for the week, I grant you) was about a 71. That's 12.7 shots better than a 5 handicap would average, so these guys are roughly playing better than a +7 handicap level just to be a median player in a final round on tour.

That's not how the handicapping system works.

First, the +3 thing spreads out or tightens up considerably. When I was a 1 my anti-handicap was around a 3. So my average was only +1 away from my handicap scores.

So let's assume the average of those counting their "ten best" scores was 69.

74.7-69 = 5.7.

5.7 * 113/146 = +4.4.

4.4 * 0.96 = +4.2.

Those players would have a handicap of about +4.2… and that's after dropping their scores to 69 by massaging it and assuming that while they'll AVERAGE 71, they'll average 69 on their ten best rounds and thus 73 on their ten worst rounds.

[Torres9]

Hell, you don't even have to work all that hard at it. What a lot of people just can't accept is that a 5 hcp just isn't that hard to achieve, and in the grand scheme, really isn't all that good.

At the end of the day, folks like me take these type comments and use them as motivation to continue to improve and pencil in lower scores. Just keep working hard, instead of those folks making ridiculous and quite embarrassing comments on the Internet to be honest. Thank you for the motivation even if the comment was absurd.

[RandallT]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RandallT

Pebble Beach blue tees are rated 74.7/143 (http://www.pebblebeach.com/golf/pebble-beach-golf-links/yardage-and-ratings)

Extrapolating the other direction from the PGA scores to a handicap number, the median Sunday score (better players for the week, I grant you) was about a 71. That's 12.7 shots better than a 5 handicap would average, so these guys are roughly playing better than a +7 handicap level just to be a median player in a final round on tour.

That's not how the handicapping system works.

First, the +3 thing spreads out or tightens up considerably. When I was a 1 my anti-handicap was around a 3. So my average was only +1 away from my handicap scores.

So let's assume the average of those counting their "ten best" scores was 69.

74.7-69 = 5.7.

5.7 * 113/146 = +4.4.

4.4 * 0.96 = +4.2.

Those players would have a handicap of about +4.2… and that's after dropping their scores to 69 by massaging it and assuming that while they'll AVERAGE 71, they'll average 69 on their ten best rounds and thus 73 on their ten worst rounds.

Gotcha. Makes sense. I get carried away sometimes with simple math and head down the wrong path.

[Golfingdad]

Hell, you don't even have to work all that hard at it. What a lot of people just can't accept is that a 5 hcp just isn't that hard to achieve, and in the grand scheme, really isn't all that good.

I know it's already been discussed a bit, and you revised it a little but I still wanted to respond ...

I, as much as anybody, appreciate the self-deprication and humility, but at some point you cross the line from that attitude to simply being insulting - and you did it here.

Sure, in the "grand scheme" a 5 handicap isn't all that good - when we're trying to compare across the board - in that it's not halfway between a 10 and a scratch player.  But don't confuse that with which portion of the bell curve you fall on.  The fact is, a 5 handicap is better - A LOT BETTER - than the vast majority of golfers out there, and for many it takes a lot of work to get there.  Sure, it's easy for some who are blessed with more talent, but it's not easy for everybody and it's not even attainable by everybody.

And when you say you "don't even have to work hard at it" you should add the caveat about how you play golf 5 or 6 times a week.

[bkuehn1952]

My original thought was that Dan planned to sell his story, either with a book, video, television series or a combination of all.  He never stated that his goal was other than to test the "10,000 Hour" theory but I just assumed he had some other plans in order to cash in on his experiment.  Golfer's quests to become "scratch" or a tournament professional had been chronicled before but never with such a grand scheme.  As time has gone on, it is apparent he really did not have a plan for selling his story.  I do not believe he is filming any of his adventure and he pretty much is giving away his written story via his blog.

So here he is 5 years into this experiment.  On the plus side, he has spent a good part of the last 5 years playing golf, working out, and practicing. He has taken his golf game from -0- to a skill level many of us have yet to achieve.  He has gone on paid trips to Australia, Europe and now the Monterrey Peninsula.    This part of his story is pretty nice, the kind of thing one daydreams about.

On the flip side, he doesn't have much in the way of personal savings and his financial situation is precarious at best.  He has given away his story and unless he becomes a solid professional golfer, there is no pot of gold at the end of his journey.  His lack of financial resources would seem to be a major obstacle to his planned journey to professional golf success.  He can't afford the professional assistance he appears to need to make the step from mid-single digit to "plus".  He has little money to spend on entry fees and travel to tournaments.  His money issues are bad enough that he has talked about getting part-time work, which will inevitably distract him from his experiment.

Playing Pebble and hanging out at the AT&T; is pretty enticing, as is playing all the golf one can handle.  Unfortunately, when the music stops Dan is likely to find himself as an unemployed 40 year old with a 3 handicap and -0- money.  For Dan's sake I hope the memories balance out what could be a bleak future.

[RFKFREAK]

Unfortunately, when the music stops Dan is likely to find himself as an unemployed 40 year old with a 3 handicap and -0- money.  For Dan's sake I hope the memories balance out what could be a bleak future.

Sadly, outside of the 3 handicap and unemployed portions of your statement, he'll be where lots of people, who work paycheck to paycheck at a dead end job just to get by without being able to save money, are. At least he might have a launching off point when this is over. But, at the end of the day, wherever he ends up, he's the one who consciously decided to quit his job and go in a different direction with his career for, at least in my opinion, to use a phrase that apparently @Shorty likes to use, narcissistic reasons.

[Shorty]

The thing about reality shows is that once they are over people lose interest immediately. They move on to the next fame-seeker, proving And Warhol's theory.

What makes this worse is that there was no story to start with. There was never more than zero percent of him achieving his goal.

It would have been difficult if he'd simply said "Let's see how could I can get in 5 years".

That would have been mildly interesting. But to say PGATour - one goal - not negotiable - and still be saying it. It's insane.

Paper Tiger has been written and it's great.

This guy's story is crap because he was never going to be any good. You only have to see him slouching in the gallery at Pebble to see that.

[natureboy]

I know it's already been discussed a bit, and you revised it a little but I still wanted to respond ...

I, as much as anybody, appreciate the self-deprication and humility, but at some point you cross the line from that attitude to simply being insulting - and you did it here.

Sure, in the "grand scheme" a 5 handicap isn't all that good - when we're trying to compare across the board - in that it's not halfway between a 10 and a scratch player.  But don't confuse that with which portion of the bell curve you fall on.  The fact is, a 5 handicap is better - A LOT BETTER - than the vast majority of golfers out there, and for many it takes a lot of work to get there.  Sure, it's easy for some who are blessed with more talent, but it's not easy for everybody and it's not even attainable by everybody.

And when you say you "don't even have to work hard at it" you should add the caveat about how you play golf 5 or 6 times a week.

Here's some graphics.

[natureboy]

That's not how the handicapping system works.

First, the +3 thing spreads out or tightens up considerably. When I was a 1 my anti-handicap was around a 3. So my average was only +1 away from my handicap scores.

So let's assume the average of those counting their "ten best" scores was 69.

74.7-69 = 5.7.

5.7 * 113/146 = +4.4.

4.4 * 0.96 = +4.2.

Those players would have a handicap of about +4.2… and that's after dropping their scores to 69 by massaging it and assuming that while they'll AVERAGE 71, they'll average 69 on their ten best rounds and thus 73 on their ten worst rounds.

This was helpful info. So the variability for the 'typical' golfer will drop with decreasing handicap? During the last 10 rounds my variability index was about 5 with my recent 10 about 3.5 with a drop in average score from about 97 to 93.5.

The 'general rule' of average score being +3 is quoted most often, because it applies best to the bulk of golfers with handicaps? Does the average score tighten up by a similar degree / linearly (constant slope) as handicap decreases? Do you know what that slope is? Where you a +1 or a -1 in your anti-cap example?

[David in FL]

That's not what you said.

You slighted the efforts, achievements, etc. of others by saying "it doesn't take much to get to a 5." (paraphrased)

Please don't take my comments out of context of this thread! I didn't slight anyone's efforts. I said that most (not all) golfers don't work to get better. They don't practice, they don't take lessons, they don't do much more than play a few times a month. Some will bust their butts trying to get better, and never get there due to whatever limitations they have, either physically, or in their lives. That they don't make it to 5, or scratch, or 15, or whatever number they want, isn't a slight of what they've honestly done to get where they are. It simply is what it is.

Ahhh.

Well, good to hear there's hope that one day I might get to a single digit handicap.

If you're genuinely working towards it, with quality instruction, correct practice, and a genuine intent to get there, I'd be surprised if you didn't....and probably sooner than you think!

Friend, I am very eager to hear why a 5 hcp really isn't all that good and easy to achieve?

and you're a 6.7? I'm honestly confused at your comment. Don't have to work all that hard at it? Please think about what your saying, for one minute and explain why USGA 5 hcp is not good.

Read my above responses, and as to "really isn't all that good", remember the topic of this thread! Is a 5 better than most amateur golfers? Of course. Is it any good at all compared to even a top local/regional amateur, let alone the worst of the worst that play professional golf for a living? Heck no!

The only thing potentially holding you back health wise is distance, which you have. So, this is not going to hold you back.

I think it's possible within one season for you to get there even with an 8 degree off line drive.

With respect to @DrvFrShow 's goal, I agree....maybe not one season, but not long given a what sounds like a pretty reasonable level of base talent, a desire to get better, and a willingness to genuinely work towards that goal, rather than just beating the ball around the golf course.

I know it's already been discussed a bit, and you revised it a little but I still wanted to respond ...

I, as much as anybody, appreciate the self-deprication and humility, but at some point you cross the line from that attitude to simply being insulting - and you did it here.

Sure, in the "grand scheme" a 5 handicap isn't all that good - when we're trying to compare across the board - in that it's not halfway between a 10 and a scratch player.  But don't confuse that with which portion of the bell curve you fall on.  The fact is, a 5 handicap is better - A LOT BETTER - than the vast majority of golfers out there, and for many it takes a lot of work to get there.  Sure, it's easy for some who are blessed with more talent, but it's not easy for everybody and it's not even attainable by everybody.

And when you say you "don't even have to work hard at it" you should add the caveat about how you play golf 5 or 6 times a week.

I think you're reading too much into my comments and taking them completely out of context if you think I was insulting. Yes, there are those that genuinely try and fail, for whatever reason, but the vast majority of golfers who think they're "trying", aren't. It's also worth remembering that the members on this site are not necessarily representative of the general golfing public. We tend to take the game a lot more seriously than most.

I stand by my points. A 5 hcp, in the context of this thread, isn't very good. A lot if golfers, assuming some base level of athleticism could make it to 5ish pretty quickly with good instruction, proper practice, and a sincere willingness to put some effort into getting there.....and no, quitting your job and working on it to the extent that Dan has is NOT necessary.


You're a good example. A busy professional and family man. Both of which take a higher priority in your life than golf. Yet, in around 2 years you've put your mind to it and reached 5....and likely go lower, with a lot of tournament play too. Are you saying that what you did was so extraordinary and special that others with the same level of base talent and desire couldn't do the same? I like to think that most could......and that's not meant to minimize what you've accomplished, but to let others know that most of them could do the same with the same genuine desire and focus.


Oh yeah......I really wish I got to play 5 times a week!

[Crim]

Here's some graphics.

Wow, the average index for men is actually better than I figured. Doesn't 14 handicap suggest you're regularly shooting in the high 80's? I find it hard to believe the average male golfer does this.

[iacas]

Please don't take my comments out of context of this thread!

Or, David, just admit that you made a poorly written post that many (rightfully) took as rude and condescending: " Hell, you don't even have to work all that hard at it. What a lot of people just can't accept is that a 5 hcp just isn't that hard to achieve, and in the grand scheme, really isn't all that good."

You talked about "you" and "a lot of people" and the "grand scheme" that doesn't include just the top 1% of golfers in the world. It was a poorly written post that many found offensive and rude.

Whatever "context" you had in your own mind when you made that post does not exist for other people. That post reads as if you are talking to and about other people, NOT Dan versus PGA Tour level players.

Admit your mistake and move on. It's getting OT now.