The Dan Plan - 10,000 Hours to Become a Pro Golfer (Dan McLaughlin)

[natureboy]

Funny thing about Einstein quote is in golf..its been said that golfers always say they want "consistency". And it's been said that these golfers actually have a very consistent swing, just a bad one. Why then do we get so many different results (pulls, chunks, slices, hooks, tops) from doing the same thing over and over? I do the same swing over and over and not only expect but guarantee I'll get different results.

We're just experts in chaos theory.

[Vinsk]

We're just experts in chaos theory. :-D

Lol! Ah...the ole "Red Queen Effect"

[RandallT]

Dan has inspired another "plan."

The main page is on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/igniteproject

He starts for real in September 2015 (from a 15 handicap or so). Looks to be marketing add-on for his own "performance gym."  20 hours per week for 5 years with a team of experts, 5 of which will be physical training at his gym. He'll stay working throughout and try not to sacrifice much family time.

Not the point of this thread of course, but it will be interesting to see if we can compare of what "deliberate practice" means for him, and what his team of experts recommends. Already I like that he will do at least one competition round per week to measure his progress.

[nevets88]

Dan has inspired another "plan."

The main page is on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/igniteproject

He starts for real in September 2015 (from a 15 handicap or so). Looks to be marketing add-on for his own "performance gym."  20 hours per week for 5 years with a team of experts, 5 of which will be physical training at his gym. He'll stay working throughout and try not to sacrifice much family time.

Not the point of this thread of course, but it will be interesting to see if we can compare of what "deliberate practice" means for him, and what his team of experts recommends. Already I like that he will do at least one competition round per week to measure his progress.

Based on his tweets, he's better off spending less time at the gym and more time playing/practicing, already in good shape. I'm wary (from first experience w/this sort of plan), but we'll see.

[Nosevi]

Dan has inspired another "plan."

The main page is on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/igniteproject

He starts for real in September 2015 (from a 15 handicap or so). Looks to be marketing add-on for his own "performance gym."  20 hours per week for 5 years with a team of experts, 5 of which will be physical training at his gym. He'll stay working throughout and try not to sacrifice much family time.

Not the point of this thread of course, but it will be interesting to see if we can compare of what "deliberate practice" means for him, and what his team of experts recommends. Already I like that he will do at least one competition round per week to measure his progress.

Looks interesting, I'll definitely follow along.

In reality he's talking quite a bit under 5000 hours of actual deliberate practice if over 1000 hours of it is in the gym and a competition round per week is also in that time - there's not a lot of deliberate practice during the time you're walking to your ball, waiting for your playing partners, waiting on a tee etc. In reality he's talking about dedicating 5000 hours to his programme of which maybe 3000 could probably be called 'deliberate practice', perhaps a bit less.

It's ambitious but I know someone who basically did it in 2 years from a 7 handicap while working for much of it so it can be done. Good luck to him.

[RandallT]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RandallT

Dan has inspired another "plan."

Looks interesting, I'll definitely follow along.

In reality he's talking quite a bit under 5000 hours of actual deliberate practice if over 1000 hours of it is in the gym and a competition round per week is also in that time - there's not a lot of deliberate practice during the time you're walking to your ball, waiting for your playing partners, waiting on a tee etc. In reality he's talking about dedicating 5000 hours to his programme of which maybe 3000 could probably be called 'deliberate practice', perhaps a bit less.

It's ambitious but I know someone who basically did it in 2 years from a 7 handicap while working for much of it so it can be done. Good luck to him.

I thought you'd have an interest in this one .  My gut tells me this is a bit more of a "side thing" for him, no coincidence that it aligns and promotes his gym business.  Of the 3, I think you are more passionate about golf itself. The other 2 seem to have other angles to pursue, not that there's anything wrong with angles.

[nevets88]

There's no mention of what other sports Ignite Project participated in. May have been a professional something in a previous life or a college athlete, which is certainly a leg up.

While he's putting in fewer hours, he does have advantages over Dan Plan at the outset. More money, better weather, better shape.

[Nosevi]

I thought you'd have an interest in this one .  My gut tells me this is a bit more of a "side thing" for him, no coincidence that it aligns and promotes his gym business.  Of the 3, I think you are more passionate about golf itself. The other 2 seem to have other angles to pursue, not that there's anything wrong with angles.

I think doing it to test a hypothesis is fine but it limits your chances of success. I'm not trying to test a theory and I'm not trying to inspire anyone tbh. Selfish as it may seem I'm doing it because I want to achieve the goal. To set out and say "I'm going to do X every week for Y years in order to become a professional golfer." isn't the best way of doing it IMO. Far better to say that you'll do what it takes to succeed and change the plan accordingly. You may well still fail but you'll have given yourself the best chance of success.

There's no mention of what other sports Ignite Project participated in. May have been a professional something in a previous life or a college athlete, which is certainly a leg up.

I think any sporting background would help as playing pretty much any sport builds coordination and balance. You'll also be used to physical training which is a bonus. Be interested to see how this guy does simply because there's such a strong slant on physical fitness.

[pumaAttack]

I am curious, how many amateur/rec golfers put in 5,000 or 10,000 hours of practice over a 5 year time span.  20 hours a week really isn't that much.

[ChrisWev]

I am curious, how many amateur/rec golfers put in 5,000 or 10,000 hours of practice over a 5 year time span.  20 hours a week really isn't that much.

I think with him doing gym work and course time as somebody above mentioned it's more like 3,000 hours. Over 5 years with a couple of days off a week that's about 2 hours a day. I would say a lot on here wouldn't be far off that, in fact I'm pretty much mirroring what he's doing (I'm a year older). At my rate I expect to break 80 next year and hopefully to be playing at less than 10 HCP. With my rate I would need to go 10>5>3>1.5>0 just to get to scratch in 5 years which would be very difficult. He'll need to get to +5 and by then he will be 37, I would say Dan has more chance, 3,000 hours is not enough.

Saying that, I think the gym work would be very important (Dan not doing that and being too weak has proven that) but it is going to tire him out. Thing is if he works on the right gym work for the golf swing he should be able to hit it miles, especially form the 15 HCP head start.

[nevets88]

[QUOTE name="pumaAttack" url="/t/45853/the-dan-plan-10-000-hours-to-become-a-pro-golfer-dan-mclaughlin/3294#post_1173834"]   I am curious, how many amateur/rec golfers put in 5,000 or 10,000 hours of practice over a 5 year time span.  20 hours a week really isn't that much. [/QUOTE] I think with him doing gym work and course time as somebody above mentioned it's more like 3,000 hours. Over 5 years with a couple of days off a week that's about 2 hours a day. I would say a lot on here wouldn't be far off that, in fact I'm pretty much mirroring what he's doing (I'm a year older). At my rate I expect to break 80 next year and hopefully to be playing at less than 10 HCP. With my rate I would need to go 10>5>3>1.5>0 just to get to scratch in 5 years which would be very difficult. He'll need to get to +5 and by then he will be 37, I would say Dan has more chance, 3,000 hours is not enough. Saying that, I think the gym work would be very important (Dan not doing that and being too weak has proven that) but it is going to tire him out. Thing is if he works on the right gym work for the golf swing he should be able to hit it miles, especially form the 15 HCP head start.

We just saw a guy w/similar build and older than Dan Plan win the Open Championship. In the playoff, the burly over 6 foot guy came in last. DJ failed miserably. Bubba burnt out. I agree that Dan Plan lacks physicality, but imho, his swing was/is the biggest factor in his progression, although I agree he should spend more time in the gym, which I've said before many times I know I'm repeating myself my apologies. Who ignite plan chooses as a first pro will be huge (no pun intended :-)), imho, w/respect to how successful he is. Duh, I know, but little is said about it in detail.

[Lihu]

I'm probably close to 3000-4000 hours, but deliberate practice is less that 40 for me. Far less, but I'm changing that this year. Hoping to see serious improvement this year. . .

[ChrisWev]

We just saw a guy w/similar build and older than Dan Plan win the Open Championship. In the playoff, the burly over 6 foot guy came in last. DJ failed miserably. Bubba burnt out.

What I meant by that is Dan is pretty scrawny by the looks of things. He even describes himself as less than average height and weight and only carries his driver 245, and hits 40% of fairways (based on last trackman stats when he was a 6 HCP). Statistically over time this isn't going to get you on tour, when the average swing speed is at least 10mph faster. ZJ is still probably swinging a good 8mph faster than Dan. Obviously I agree that Dan's swing needs looking at too.

I may be incorrect but to me you need to get your swing speed up to tour average (113mph?) by the time you get to scratch (providing it's within your possible scope etc) to stand the best chance of getting/ staying on tour. I know it's not the be all and end all but a slow swing speed improvement along with any other improvements will make a massive difference. 10mph is about another 30 yards for total driver distance and if the S/S is in the tank you can always loft up to improve accuracy, Dan can't afford to do that to get to where he wants to be, which is probably one of the reasons he misses a lot of fairways.

I would say it wasn't a big deal years ago (Drive for show, putt for dough etc), but now it obviously is or you just get left behind.

[Lihu]

Average 245 carry is enough to get to scratch, but I don't think he carries that far.

[nevets88]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nevets88

We just saw a guy w/similar build and older than Dan Plan win the Open Championship. In the playoff, the burly over 6 foot guy came in last. DJ failed miserably. Bubba burnt out.

What I meant by that is Dan is pretty scrawny by the looks of things. He even describes himself as less than average height and weight and only carries his driver 245, and hits 40% of fairways (based on last trackman stats when he was a 6 HCP). Statistically over time this isn't going to get you on tour, when the average swing speed is at least 10mph faster. ZJ is still probably swinging a good 8mph faster than Dan. Obviously I agree that Dan's swing needs looking at too.

I may be incorrect but to me you need to get your swing speed up to tour average (113mph?) by the time you get to scratch (providing it's within your possible scope etc) to stand the best chance of getting/ staying on tour. I know it's not the be all and end all but a slow swing speed improvement along with any other improvements will make a massive difference. 10mph is about another 30 yards for total driver distance and if the S/S is in the tank you can always loft up to improve accuracy, Dan can't afford to do that to get to where he wants to be, which is probably one of the reasons he misses a lot of fairways.

I would say it wasn't a big deal years ago (Drive for show, putt for dough etc), but now it obviously is or you just get left behind.

I agree with most of your points @ChrisWev , but I didn't provide some of the context of my thinking that might bear out why I wrote what I wrote as I'm thinking of Dan Plan's more realistic end goal is getting to scratch which is my fault. I think @iacas said somewhere in TST that 240 yards total is the minimum you need to get to scratch w/other parts above average.

If you enlarge the photos in the tweet, you'll get a good idea of Johnson's build. This is not a personal issue for me. I'm not trying to overcompensate for my size as I'm not short and scrawny. It irks me to see Dan Plan's size being mentioned as a limitation as ya'll have probably noticed a little. :-) And the official PGA site lists ZJ's SS @ 108.

http://www.pgatour.com/players/player.24024.zach-johnson.html/statistics

So we just had a 39 yo of slight frame win over young 6 foot+ 350 yard driving brutes. Yay for the average (in physicality) guy!

[Nosevi]

But I think that tweet you've posted says it all @nevets88 - Zach Johnson works hard to improve upon what he naturally has in terms or physical strength. I don't think you need to be 6 foot plus (Rory is hardly a giant and those who followed his early career will know he was not a large build back then) but I do think with the way the top of the professional game has gone (and Dan is aiming at the top, not scratch) you need to work at it to give yourself the best chance of success.

I think it's like any other aspect of game improvement to the level Dan is aiming for - getting a good coach, using the right tech, focused practice, financially planning properly, proper physical conditioning - it all counts. If you leave out one aspect you are seriously hurting your chances of accomplishing  your goal and you probably only have one shot in a thousand of accomplishing it if you do all these things.

Truth is I have no clue if Dan has a physical regime or not. I have no clue how far he carries his driver or how he hits his irons. I don't know how long he practices chipping or putting or how he goes about practising them. I know almost nothing about how he swings the club other than a couple of videos posted in the last couple of years, zero about what he's working on to make that better and less about how he's going about it. I don't know his stats since he stopped recording them, I don't know how he goes round a course since he stopped using Game Golf (he does have a set but only recorded a few rounds) and I have no idea how he plans to improve.

In short, I know almost nothing about Dan's plan. I know what the end goal is and I know where he wants to get to. I just don't know about how he plans to get from one to the other.

[nevets88]

But I think that tweet you've posted says it all @nevets88 - Zach Johnson works hard to improve upon what he naturally has in terms or physical strength. I don't think you need to be 6 foot plus (Rory is hardly a giant and those who followed his early career will know he was not a large build back then) but I do think with the way the top of the professional game has gone (and Dan is aiming at the top, not scratch) you need to work at it to give yourself the best chance of success.

I think it's like any other aspect of game improvement to the level Dan is aiming for - getting a good coach, using the right tech, focused practice, financially planning properly, proper physical conditioning - it all counts. If you leave out one aspect you are seriously hurting your chances of accomplishing  your goal and you probably only have one shot in a thousand of accomplishing it if you do all these things.

Truth is I have no clue if Dan has a physical regime or not. I have no clue how far he carries his driver or how he hits his irons. I don't know how long he practices chipping or putting or how he goes about practising them. I know almost nothing about how he swings the club other than a couple of videos posted in the last couple of years, zero about what he's working on to make that better and less about how he's going about it. I don't know his stats since he stopped recording them, I don't know how he goes round a course since he stopped using Game Golf (he does have a set but only recorded a few rounds) and I have no idea how he plans to improve.

In short, I know almost nothing about Dan's plan. I know what the end goal is and I know where he wants to get to. I just don't know about how he plans to get from one to the other.

If anything, this plan has made me believe more that talent, has more to do with getting to be the best more than hard work. Hard work is a requirement, but pretty much anyone can work hard. Talent, and a good head on the shoulders. Not just mental, but common sense and intelligence. I know it goes counter to what was set out to be proven, but believe you me, I wanted it to go the opposite way.

As for deliberate practice, the plan makes me think that deliberate practice helps those w/less talent and innate skills even more than those with.

[Nosevi]

I don't think we're that far apart in our thinking @nevets88 , personally I think talent is a prerequisite to success in this endevour. Yes you need to work hard and yes you need to put all the other things in place like good coaching etc but if you don't have the potential to succeed you won't do. It's no different than other fields. In Air Traffic we have aptitude tests to see if someone has the potential to become a controller. At the end of the day if they can't resolve a 2D picture on a radar screen into a 3D reality, or have the mental dexterity to calculate height differences based on pressure differentials or learn books worth of rules and regs or stay totally chilled when under pressure, they will never become a controller - they simply don't have the natural atributes to fo it. Golf is a little different in that it's physical rather than mental but I still think you need certain natural abilities in order to succeed. Hard work is only part of the equasion IMO.