The Dan Plan - 10,000 Hours to Become a Pro Golfer (Dan McLaughlin)

[cipher]

That's why it is only really feasible if you are a kid.

No adult can normally do this, unless they somehow convince other adults to contribute money for you to do it.

Are you talking about the goal or the hours?  I think it is possible as an adult, if you have the talent for it.  I think that is what matters more than anything.

[Golfingdad]

That's why it is only really feasible if you are a kid.

No adult can normally do this, unless they somehow convince other adults to contribute money for you to do it.

Heck, I'm only 40 years old!!  It's still feasible for me ... it will just happen when I'm ... 81 years old!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Big C]

I'd love to know who agrees with that idea of learning. To me, it seems blindingly obvious to just start all aspects simultaneously. Putting some, chipping/pitching, bunker shots, short irons, long irons, driver. All a little bit every day. Even if you just learn a couple basics for each area every day. But months on putting?? Whew. What a waste it seems.  Isn't there a point of diminishing returns each day with a putter?  Maybe there's some science behind his decision, and my "blindingly obvious" hunch is incorrect.

I agree. To me it seems like a terrible waste of valuable time, but maybe there are others who feel differently. I am sure he was coached on this strategy by someone.

Now, if he began with a few months of chipping, pitching and putting before graduating to a full swing, that would be a bit more understandable - since the chipping/pitching process is basically a minor version of the swing. But I think he set himself back by ONLY rolling putts to start out.

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lihu

That's why it is only really feasible if you are a kid.

No adult can normally do this, unless they somehow convince other adults to contribute money for you to do it.

Heck, I'm only 40 years old!!  It's still feasible for me ... it will just happen when I'm ... 81 years old!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hmm, you'll have at least a few years in retirement for you to devote all your time into it. By then, you'll probably need less sleep too!

Champions Tour by 2055?

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lihu

That's why it is only really feasible if you are a kid.

No adult can normally do this, unless they somehow convince other adults to contribute money for you to do it.

Are you talking about the goal or the hours?  I think it is possible as an adult, if you have the talent for it.  I think that is what matters more than anything.

Yes, I meant the time commitment.

If you have the talent for anything, you can bring it out any time.

http://www.profootballhof.com/history/stats/40_and_over_club.aspx

[Golfingdad]

I agree. To me it seems like a terrible waste of valuable time, but maybe there are others who feel differently. I am sure he was coached on this strategy by someone.

Now, if he began with a few months of chipping, pitching and putting before graduating to a full swing, that would be a bit more understandable - since the chipping/pitching process is basically a minor version of the swing. But I think he set himself back by ONLY rolling putts to start out.

Yeah, presumably he consulted a coach before he started that goofy plan.  I don't know who that coach is, and it seems like a cockamamy (sp??) plan, but who knows for sure.

Hmm, you'll have at least a few years in retirement for you to devote all your time into it. By then, you'll probably need less sleep too!

Champions Tour by 2055?

I'm also not factoring in the possibility that my kids will be enthusiastic about golf, and if so, instead of squeezing in time to play without them, then I can spend copious amounts of time playing WITH them!

So maybe I'll only be 74 when I get to my 10,000 hours!!!!!!!!!! ;)

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lihu

Hmm, you'll have at least a few years in retirement for you to devote all your time into it. By then, you'll probably need less sleep too!

Champions Tour by 2055?

I'm also not factoring in the possibility that my kids will be enthusiastic about golf, and if so, instead of squeezing in time to play without them, then I can spend copious amounts of time playing WITH them!

So maybe I'll only be 74 when I get to my 10,000 hours!!!!!!!!!! ;)

Yes,actually. This is the main reason why I took up golf.

I am actually good enough for my own golfing happiness, but I just want to have that good swing because it feels so nice when you get it right.

[RetroJFrancisco]

Umm No, I play alongside guys in that range and there is no way on earth they could compete, also a guy who is at +3.4 last time we played and it's beyond him as well. I would think at least a +4.5 would get you at qualifying for the Nationwide and of course there are thousands of guys playing at this level. This whole quest was doomed from the onset but it is interesting to see his progression and Dan is going to be a vey good golfer by the time this is done just not Tour good. For Dan he has to have a breakthrough with his swing and I think he has a good chance of finding it with the amount of hours left in this journey and he may reach +2. If he doesn't he's going to stall somewhere just above scratch.

Gotta disagree man, +5 players would easily qualify for nationwide tour, thats 1 in 100million sort of stuff.. Most of the current tour players turned pro off around +2/+3

You'd be hard pressed to find MANY who turned pro off +5 or lower, also its worth noting that here in the UK (handicapping system) +5 is a virtual impossibility.. +3 is usually as low as anyone can get without being a superstar.

[newtogolf]

Gotta disagree man, +5 players would easily qualify for nationwide tour, thats 1 in 100million sort of stuff.. Most of the current tour players turned pro off around +2/+3

You'd be hard pressed to find MANY who turned pro off +5 or lower, also its worth noting that here in the UK (handicapping system) +5 is a virtual impossibility.. +3 is usually as low as anyone can get without being a superstar.

+5 in UK with a heavy mix of tournaments at different courses I'd agree.  +5 in United States with 80% or more of their rounds coming from a home course, I doubt they'd qualify.

[Golfingdad]

Gotta disagree man, +5 players would easily qualify for nationwide tour, thats 1 in 100million sort of stuff.. Most of the current tour players turned pro off around +2/+3

You'd be hard pressed to find MANY who turned pro off +5 or lower, also its worth noting that here in the UK (handicapping system) +5 is a virtual impossibility.. +3 is usually as low as anyone can get without being a superstar.

Yeah, I estimated the math at one point last year and the majority of guys on the PGA Tour (not Web.com, PGA) were in the +5 or +6 range.  I think the top of the heap (as in Rory or Phil or Tiger) were maybe +7, +8 ish.

[Golfingdad]

+5 in UK with a heavy mix of tournaments at different courses I'd agree.  +5 in United States with 80% or more of their rounds coming from a home course, I doubt they'd qualify.

Remember, though ... somebody who is good enough to be a +5 isn't going to be a "club" type player who just goofs around at one course.  Anybody who works that hard and is that talented is playing tournaments all over.

It's also extremely unlikely you'll find anybody faking their way to that level either (gimmes, mulligans, etc) like you would find with people who have fake 10 caps or 15 caps.

[newtogolf]

Remember, though ... somebody who is good enough to be a +5 isn't going to be a "club" type player who just goofs around at one course.  Anybody who works that hard and is that talented is playing tournaments all over.

It's also extremely unlikely you'll find anybody faking their way to that level either (gimmes, mulligans, etc) like you would find with people who have fake 10 caps or 15 caps.

Agreed, my point was a +5 is tougher to achieve outside the US where scores must come from tournament play.  A +5 in US is a very good player but given how our handicap system works they might not be as tournament ready.

[RetroJFrancisco]

+5 in UK with a heavy mix of tournaments at different courses I'd agree.  +5 in United States with 80% or more of their rounds coming from a home course, I doubt they'd qualify.

I'm probably not in the position to comment on US HCapping from over this end of the pond, but a solid +1 handicapper (consistently shoots -1 obviously) would qualify for the cut week in/week out on the lower tours regardless of event or course..

My best mate turned pro off +2 (was a shaky plus two at that! I've seen him shoot high 80s) and routinely makes cuts week after week..

The top 100 in the world really are a different breed.. But from what ive encountered over my few years of highly highly competitive golf: The pro's on TV really aren't what people make them out to be.

[Golfingdad]

Agreed, my point was a +5 is tougher to achieve outside the US where scores must come from tournament play.  A +5 in US is a very good player but given how our handicap system works they might not be as tournament ready.

Right.  I am making the assumption that somebody at the level of +5 is playing seriously, competitively, and from the tips all of the time.  I can't see a recreational level player (somebody who plays the same course all of the time, or plays from white tees) ever getting that good.

It's possible though.  There was a guy in my bowling league last season who had a 235 average ... and he was content to just beat up on all of us on a house pattern twice a week, with no drive to play tournaments, or leagues with sport patterns or anything like that.

[hopefulhacker]

Agreed, my point was a +5 is tougher to achieve outside the US where scores must come from tournament play.  A +5 in US is a very good player but given how our handicap system works they might not be as tournament ready.

This is an Irish Guy off +5, his majority of golf is spent on his home course (not casual, his HC is based on his weekly club comps)

http://www.independent.ie/sport/golf/deegan-sights-set-on-adding-senior-title-to-his-allirelands-28812637.html

It's a pretty impressive HC all the same considering he was an elite athlete for most his life in a different sport, whilst also having a 9-5 job at the same time.

(GAA football: our national game in Ireland if anyone is interested, the players at the highest level are professionals in everything bar receiving payment, the all have 9-5 jobs outside of the sport )

Anyway, his handicap, whilst extremely impressive is based on weekly competitions in his home club mainly.

He struggles (and admits that) to compete in the Leading Amateur tournaments in Ireland, and guys 4 or 5 shots worse off will better him.

I'm sure if he had the time to play more golf at away course that he could challenge.

He has played with GMac before, and he said the difference between him and GMac was immense. Like a mid handicapper to a scratch golfer difference!!!!

He also co-hosts a weekly podcast over here if any of you fancy a listen to it.

It's an extremely good podcast imo, covers the PGA and Euro tour and it's just basically 3 "average" (+5,14,15) golfers having a chat about the week in golf.

There is an excellent interview with P Harrington on 8th Jan, Paddy talks about having the yips!!!!!!

https://itunes.apple.com/ie/podcast/golf-weekly/id493549478?mt=2

Sorry a bit off topic, but point was that even on this side of the pond, handicaps aren't always what they seem either (I would admit he is an exception though, most + guys are playing lots of tournaments outside of their home course)

[nevets88]

That's why it is only really feasible if you are a kid. No adult can normally do this, unless they somehow convince other adults to contribute money for you to do it.

That's pretty much what sponsorship is. Happens a lot. As for starting with only putting, I think that's got something to do with his association w/Dr. Ericsson. IMHO, and it's obvious, to optimize success, this was gone about the wrong way. Done, "right", imho, Dan, or any average joe plucked off the street would be much farther than where he is now, but will eventually hit a wall, whether it be at scratch or a little better or worse. I believe in deliberate practice, but this deliberate practice, was implemented badly. Especially with what we know about the importance of the long vs short game. He basically lost the first six months. And the regimental counting hours. What a killjoy that is.

[newtogolf]

Right.  I am making the assumption that somebody at the level of +5 is playing seriously, competitively, and from the tips all of the time.  I can't see a recreational level player (somebody who plays the same course all of the time, or plays from white tees) ever getting that good.

It's possible though.  There was a guy in my bowling league last season who had a 235 average ... and he was content to just beat up on all of us on a house pattern twice a week, with no drive to play tournaments, or leagues with sport patterns or anything like that.

I think that's a valid assumption, a +5 would be an exceptional player and would likely look to do more with golf than just beat up the guys in the club.

I've become very skeptical of the US handicap implementation after my first year playing in a club last year.  We had a few scratch, +1's at my club who dominate the house tournaments but got wrecked in inter-club competitions when they are played at other locations.  Almost everyone in my old club had a vanity cap that was well below their skill level.  Three times last year it was insinuated that I was a sandbagger because I was getting a fair number of strokes in our club tournaments and in some cases was beating them straight up.  I joined a new club for this year so we'll see how it goes.

Getting this back to on topic, it appears Dan is like many of my old club members in that he's selective about what rounds he posts and he doesn't play close to his handicap in tournaments.

[Lihu]

[quote name="Lihu" url="/t/45853/the-dan-plan-10-000-hours-to-become-a-*********er/840#post_958909"] That's why it is only really feasible if you are a kid. No adult can normally do this, unless they somehow convince other adults to contribute money for you to do it.

That's pretty much what sponsorship is. Happens a lot. As for starting with only putting, I think that's got something to do with his association w/Dr. Ericsson. IMHO, and it's obvious, to optimize success, this was gone about the wrong way. Done, "right", imho, Dan, or any average joe plucked off the street would be much farther than where he is now, but will eventually hit a wall, whether it be at scratch or a little better or worse. I believe in deliberate practice, but this deliberate practice, was implemented badly. Especially with what we know about the importance of the long vs short game. He basically lost the first six months. And the regimental counting hours. What a killjoy that is.[/quote] My point was that there are better candidates. He is better at marketing himself than many more qualified 35 year olds who are far better than he is at golf. IDK, but his swing looks really wimpy. Even my daughter controls the club with more power than him. His training regimen should have started with his weakest link, which is a full swing. Obviously, his full swing given his capability for athleticism is his worst skill set. By starting off putting and chipping he only delays discovering this deficiency. If I were to take a 35 year old retired football player, I would start him off with the finesse items like chipping and putting. I know is guy would be athletic enought to control the club with plenty of power, but I would question if he has the fine muscle control for chips and putts. I agree that the training was misguided, and the entire program is misguided. The average person really underestimates the professional golfer, and his marketing machine just feeds on this ignorance.