Jason Day's antics...

[senorchipotle]

Quote:

Anyone else have an opinion on this negative behavior in the PGA?

not really. i'm not sure why we should care, quite honestly. if people promote famous athletes as role models for their children, or even themselves, they are just begging to be disappointed.

i'd like to see your reaction to a shot that could very well make a difference in you going home, or collecting a large sum of money.

[B of H]

Originally Posted by sacm3bill

Heh... and you sound like a pre-adolescent with that comeback. But actually no, the best I ever did was when the college boat I crewed in (CSU Sacramento) placed 5th in the rowing nationals in Albany NY, 1989. Lost to Harvard, Yale, Penn, and Navy. We did win the West Coast Championship to get there though... not bad for a backwater program that had to do erg-athons to raise money... just my opinion of course, you're welcome to yours.

sorry, that came off a little harsh perhaps.

my point being that for the most part ALL truly great athletes had tempers.  Michael Jordan, George Brett, Bobby Jones, Ben Hogan, Tiger Woods, Babe Ruth, Larry Bird, Jimmy Connors, John McEnroe, Bo Jackson, Roger Clemons, Bob Knight, Ben Crenshaw, etc...  especially early in their career.  you can count on one hand the number of great performers in history that didn't show emotion and get upset when they weren't performing up to their standards (pete sampras is one perhaps although he smacked around some stuff plenty).  alpha males get pissed and it's that passion and drive that motivates them succeed beyond others.  If you want to kick a$$ then you need an attitude and confidence that fuels it.  It's walking a fine line and the best usually blow up from time to time because they have a fire and intensity that demands perfection in everything they do.   They are human beings though and some are better at controlling their temper/actions than others.  You can't expect people with this type of intensity not to throw a few clubs and yell some profanity every once in a while, it's just not realistic or rational.

people who dominate at any level 95% of the time are fueled at a level by their own personal expectations and self confidence that causes these types of outbursts to happen.  These are also the same people who have a bad day then work even harder the next day to try to make sure it never happens again.  It's that passion and drive that makes them great, asking for them to tone it down at 22 years old is like asking a race car driver to slow down or a linebacker to take it easy on the QB's.   If you like sports then embrace the passion that these types of athletes bring to the game or don't watch...there is no compromise.  Great athletes get pissed, it's a fact of life.

[TourSpoon]

Originally Posted by bplewis24

Another thing I notice when people criticize golfers for their on-course behavior/tantrums, is the tendency to take a revisionist history approach.  In other words, they pretend it's a relatively new trend with the current and last couple generations of golfers.

I'm relatively new to the history of golf, meaning although I played some when I was younger, I only actually watched and paid attention to the professional sport over the past couple years.  I've become accustomed to watching a lot of the golf network and their replays of historic golf matches and events.  With the impression that only today's golfers ever acted like big babies on the course, I watched with slight surprise to see the greatest of the greats throwing their clubs in disgust, pissed off at their putters for putts not dropping, etc., etc.

Maybe they didn't do it regularly, and maybe some guys on tour do it way too frequently, but it's not like the acts themselves are some new phenomenon that was absent from yesteryear.

Brandon

When I think of temper stories, Tommy Bolt (aka Terrible Tommy) takes the prize. Here's one of his best tips, "Always throw clubs ahead of you, that way you don't waste energy going back to pick them up."

http://golf.about.com/od/golfersmen/p/tommy_bolt.htm

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by sacm3bill

Heh... and you sound like a pre-adolescent with that comeback. But actually no, the best I ever did was when the college boat I crewed in (CSU Sacramento) placed 5th in the rowing nationals in Albany NY, 1989. Lost to Harvard, Yale, Penn, and Navy. We did win the West Coast Championship to get there though... not bad for a backwater program that had to do erg-athons to raise money... just my opinion of course, you're welcome to yours.

Are you from Sac?  That's where I'm from (although I didn't attend Sac St.).

Originally Posted by TourSpoon

When I think of temper stories, Tommy Bolt (aka Terrible Tommy) takes the prize. Here's one of his best tips, "Always throw clubs ahead of you, that way you don't waste energy going back to pick them up."

http://golf.about.com/od/golfersmen/p/tommy_bolt.htm

lol... at least he had a sense of humor about himself.  Here is another one:

Tommy Bolt: "Never break your driver and putter in the same round."

Anyway, I agree with a lot of the comments here.  I think bad behavior is bad behavior, although that doesn't always make it unacceptable or morally repugnant.  As a coach, I encourage my football players to show emotion.  I specifically encourage it in practice.  Why?  Well other than it allowing for more competitive practices, it allows me as a coach to find teaching moments to let the kids know what emotional outbursts are okay and which ones aren't.  It is in our fallible nature that we eventually grow and learn.  One thing that I appreciate about Bubba Watson is how he has made a conscious effort to work on his emotional outbursts on the course.  I don't have any problem with him getting pissed off, but if he does and he wants to work to control it, he is bettering himself in the process.

Brandon

[sacm3bill]

Originally Posted by B of H

my point being that for the most part ALL truly great athletes had tempers...  alpha males get pissed and it's that passion and drive that motivates them succeed beyond others.  If you want to kick a$$ then you need an attitude and confidence that fuels it...  It's that passion and drive that makes them great...  If you like sports then embrace the passion that these types of athletes bring to the game or don't watch...there is no compromise.  Great athletes get pissed, it's a fact of life.

I respect your opinion about this but I just don't share it. I struggle with my temper when I play sports (mostly golf and basketball), and I feel that calling my temper "passion" or "drive" is a cop out. I feel that I can be, or at least should try to be, passionate and have drive and be emotional without losing my temper... I want to learn to control my temper instead of making excuses for it, like "I'm just being passionate about winning". If and when I have a kid, I'm going to try to teach him the difference.

Originally Posted by bplewis24

Are you from Sac?  That's where I'm from (although I didn't attend Sac St.).

Indeed - still here in fact!

[turtleback]

Quote:

My job is to sit behind a keyboard and write code. My job is often frustrating and I often get pissed, but it's not ok for me to act out by swearing, punching my monitor, or violently throwing my Starbucks Vivanno Smoothie to the ground. I've never understood why we give sports figures a pass just because they get paid to play.

Yeah, because writing code is just like playing professional golf at the highest level.

[sacm3bill]

Originally Posted by turtleback

Yeah, because writing code is just like playing professional golf at the highest level.

You really haven't understood my points at all.

[8.5_Drive]

video of this?

[gwlee7]

Playing golf for a living has to "tense" at times and I can appreciate that since you can't just ride the bench and collect the league minimum like in team sports.  However, it is still playing golf for a living.  Day would do well to be grateful instead of angry.  He has made $6.6 million in his short time on tour.

[WilsonWedgeMan]

ya know, I can't remark on the pressures of Pro Golfing,nor can I say that i'm an Average athlete(more below than above),whereby I can make an qualified  and dramatic point. However, as a woodworker who has tons of $$ invested in machines and material, I can relate to the sudden outburst when things don't turned out as expected. having to scrap high dollar wood due to an errant cut(mental mistake or procedural mistake) costs time and money. especially diappointing when taking into consideration how many TIMES you've made that same cut over the years....yet, it's toast... same applies to any venture where one puts heart and soul into it. I have an issue with blatant immaturity(throwing clubs,loud outbursts,etc..thats' un-called for)but I can't...I won't belittle or pass judgement on another human being for BEING HUMAN. most think they're cool and calm, but in truth, 99.9% of ALL golfers have a negative response to bad shots( most know how to temper that response, but that doesn't mean they don't HAVE a response). let 'em show emotions, to a point...it's who we are.

OFF topic:

As for the $$ part, well..I don't feel too awful sorry for $$ causing pressure, cuz basically, they ALL make more than the common working man,with not nearly as much effort. yes, practicing for 8 hours isn't my idea of a fun day, but it's better than being in a coal mine.... or a poultry processing plant... or Crab fisherman..or a ditch digger. For the time invested, they get MUCH better returns monetarily. Case in point: DJ Trahan has earned over 10 Mil in winnings on tour( Yahoo sports webpage) over the years ...thats' alot more $$ than  most farmer/timberman/fisherman/Auto worker/Doctor/Lawyer/WasteManagement worker/nurse/railroader/younameit earn with YEARS of training/experience....only pro sports pays that well( generalism). and sooner or later, that too will decline, as peoples' disposable incomes continue to shrink. it's happening already... look at NFL /Nascar/MLB/MLS.. all have seen significant declines in attendances and sponsors, ... that will spread to other Pro sports as well, unless the economy does an about face. aren't there PGA events that are being threatened by lack of sponsorship?? did I hear that correctly from a TV announcer,last week I believe ???     wouldn't/shouldn't surprise anyone if it's true....

[turtleback]

Originally Posted by sacm3bill

You really haven't understood my points at all.

I understood your points, I just think they have 0 validity.

[just hit it]

Originally Posted by imtomtomim

Wow, these are competing athletes.  Not showmen.  They are not playing to entertain you.  They are playing to beat the best golfers around.  Yeah, they shouldn't be throwing stuff, smacking the ground, or any other tantrums like that, but why is it your business to criticize them for that behavior?  I see this inappropriate behavior in all aspects of life and that is just the way people are.  The well mannered person is rare, however discussing a person's, whom you have no actual relation to, rash behavior is just silly and inappropriate as well.  You want to be a gentleman?  Let them be, and move on.  Your walk if life does not belong to someone else, and it's not like you would want someone else discussing your personal flaws.

All Professional athletes, no matter the sport, are there to entertain the fans.  Yes they want to win.  But they are paid to entertain us by playing their chosen sport.  Their behavior does matter.  I didn't see what Day did to start this thread, but I have never had any problem with the way he behaves.

[retexan599]

Well, at least it's not the NHL.....

[sacm3bill]

Originally Posted by turtleback

I understood your points, I just think they have 0 validity.

Ok, then tell me: What exactly *is* the difference between playing golf at a professional level, vs writing software or doing anything else us mere mortals do in order to feed our families, that makes it ok for the professional golfer to fly off the handle but not ok for anyone else? Is it because more money is at stake? If so then I'll remind you, as others have pointed out, that most professional golfers (and certainly Jason Day) are guaranteed to have a roof over their heads and food on their table regardless of how they hit their last shot. Having to worry about that gives the common man *more* license for bad behavior, not less.

I'll say it one more time: Bad behavior is bad behavior regardless of the excuses made for it.

[B of H]

Originally Posted by sacm3bill

I respect your opinion about this but I just don't share it. I struggle with my temper when I play sports (mostly golf and basketball), and I feel that calling my temper "passion" or "drive" is a cop out. I feel that I can be, or at least should try to be, passionate and have drive and be emotional without losing my temper... I want to learn to control my temper instead of making excuses for it, like "I'm just being passionate about winning". If and when I have a kid, I'm going to try to teach him the difference.

you can't teach someone to go against their nature, that is the point.  Some players as they age become more tame in terms of their immediate reaction to a bad shot but if you take an intense player and try to force him to play without that type of intensity he'll struggle from a performance perspective most likely.  That is the point.  If you've ever worked with or been involved with competitive golf or any sport you'd know this....get the point now?  A lot of players that threw clubs and melted down (way worse than Day) at 22 years old learned to curb that behavior later in life and usually before their prime years like bobby jones etc...  Just sitting on your couch and bitching about things you see on tv without perspective on the situation is foolish.

just to keep things in perspective: were talking about a guy that dropped a club on his follow through and slammed a club into the ground.  Some of you are losing sight of what were talking about here, it's really not a big deal at all.  If you have a problem with it then you should probably find something else to comment on because you are out of your element and are only making a big deal out of something you know little about in the first place.

[Shorty]

Originally Posted by sacm3bill

Ok, then tell me: What exactly *is* the difference between playing golf at a professional level, vs writing software or doing anything else us mere mortals do in order to feed our families, that makes it ok for the professional golfer to fly off the handle but not ok for anyone else?

Because millions of people pay money to watch professional athletes and watching the emotions that come out is part of the excitement.

On the other hand, millions of people would pay NOT to watch someone sitting in front of a computer.

Noone is debating whether plumbers or ambulance workers or software writers are more or less worthy than millionaire athletes.

But you can be pretty sure that if the only athletes we saw on TV were ones who kept all of theior emotions in check there's be less sport on TV.

To suggest that an emplyee in an office should be able to fly off the handle and damage equipment if a golfer can get a little heated is riduculous.

[jamo]

Originally Posted by B of H

you can't teach someone to go against their nature, that is the point.  Some players as they age become more tame in terms of their immediate reaction to a bad shot but if you take an intense player and try to force him to play without that type of intensity he'll struggle from a performance perspective most likely.  That is the point.  If you've ever worked with or been involved with competitive golf or any sport you'd know this....get the point now?  A lot of players that threw clubs and melted down (way worse than Day) at 22 years old learned to curb that behavior later in life and usually before their prime years like bobby jones etc...  Just sitting on your couch and bitching about things you see on tv without perspective on the situation is foolish.

just to keep things in perspective: were talking about a guy that dropped a club on his follow through and slammed a club into the ground.  Some of you are losing sight of what were talking about here, it's really not a big deal at all.  If you have a problem with it then you should probably find something else to comment on because you are out of your element and are only making a big deal out of something you know little about in the first place.

How does the Bobby Jones example not contradict that first (bolded) sentence? Bobby Jones (and Arnold Palmer) was taught to go against his nature and to not have his initial reaction be club throwing.

[Shorty]

Originally Posted by jamo

How does the Bobby Jones example not contradict that first (bolded) sentence? Bobby Jones (and Arnold Palmer) was taught to go against his nature and to not have his initial reaction be club throwing.

Exactly -

Every single golf biography I have read has a bit where the young player swore or threw a club and their father said "If you ever throw a club again, young man, it'll be the last time you play this game." or something similar. Jack Nicklaus included.

The ultra cool Geoff Ogilvy is another one who used to be as wild as anyone you've ever seen on a golf course.  Now he tries hard to curb his instincts.  Maybe that's boring.  But you should've heard him swearing and seen him club bashing in Australia late last year.

I find it extraordinary that the most sullen, pouty, potty mouthed and mean spirited golfers are excused as long as they release "awesome" videos where they're mucking around and pretending to be crazy, fun loving guys.  We believe their BS propaganda videos and tweets (Bubba Watson and Ben Crane), but excuse their on-course behaviour, be it whingeing, bitching or slow play.  That's the modern way, I guess.  Believe the BS, but ignore what is real.

Jason Day is one of the most positive and friendly guys on tour. He had a microphone attached to him and he was the player under scrutiny.  And...he didn't do much anyway.