How is the financial health of golf courses in your community?

[bogey joe]

Though I consider us blessed in southeast Tn. to have so many and such a wide range of golf courses, I fear for the future of many of the golf courses.  I own a 9-hole golf course here and am keeping my head above water, not getting rich for sure but am saving a bit of money, however there are at least 5 courses rumored to be in deep trouble with 2 of them having already been repossessed by the bank, and now operating under the banks surpervision (that's a great idea). The other 3 are activly for sale and I'm sure they're not for sale because the owners are making more money than they can count.  And still yet two other government owned courses are losing money year after year.  And that is a big pet peeve of mine.  We as taxpayers pay for the shortfall every year and the incredibley high budget to maintain the courses, and then at the same time pay them to lose and abuse our money.  I realize the economy is not great but is there a bigger issue at hand with the golf industry?  Have courses priced themselves into a corner?  Is the unfriendly and uninviting greetings of some course pro's and staff turning folks away from the game?  Would you swap a little less manicuring of your golf course for some lower prices?  Would the golf community as a whole be stronger if we got back to basics and gave up the 250,000 square ft of greens and tees, the 100 bunkers per course and gps systems on the golf carts?  Cut 18 cups into any pasture in america, mow it down and give me a competitor and it will still be golf.  Just my opionion, let's hear yours.

[DaSportsGuy]

My home course is struggling a little bit financially but it's managing to keep its head above water. Ever since it went public three years ago it's been going downhill. The past two years the conditions have been absolute crap. This year they hired a new groundskeeper who used to work at a great country club in the area and it's really starting to look good again for the first time in a couple years.

[clubchamp]

There is a couple courses around here that have basically let the course go to save some money. I'm lucky because I'm not far from Annapolis where there is a lot of old money so the country club I'm a member at hasn't seen a huge drop off in membership. This could change with a really nice public course going private next month. There was a guy at our club the other day presenting an offer to the members about buying a public course that's struggling. It's definitely tough out there and the state of the euro is not helping so I'm guessing you will see a lot of things change in the next year.

[awmgolfer]

Our local course is in excellent standing. It helps the course is fully paid for and has been for a long time so the only expenses are day-to-day expenses. This season business was down quite a bit but it was for all the courses in the area, tough year due to all the rain. However, a number of courses in our area are really struggling. One course I think will be closing its doors after the end of this season as they are down to 44 members and the course is in crappy shape which is too bad, could be a gorgeous course if the family didn't spend all the money of themselves. Another course a little north of us has also really been struggling but should pull it together just enough to stay open. A couple of the other courses around didn't do great at all but not enough to really cause problems. If next year is another tough year it could be an entirely different story at the end of the next season.

[GJBenn85]

Many of the private courses in my area are really struggling.  I suppose it is to be expected with membership fees of $6-25k per year in one of the worst economies this country has seen.

The public courses are generally healthier but they face fierce competition which is evident by some of the courses now offering $20 green fees when they used to charge $70+.  Word has it my "home" course is about to record their worst year since the course opened in the '90s.

Golf courses are obviously struggling overall.  One of my clients sells merchandise to many golf courses around the country and they are usually very slow to pay their vendors.  Only a handful remit timely payments.  The ones hosting PGA tournaments are among the most likely to pay.

[WUTiger]

bogey joe,

I follow the golf industry sectors as a hobby, so I appreciate the hard work you do hanging in there with a 9-hole layout.

Any chance you and your crew could get a contract to manage one of those other layouts.

Here are some things I've noticed regarding your remarks:

• Basic construction matters: We have a couple of heavily played courses in our area that are in trouble because cutrate construction features are catching up with them. Too many greens in low areas, and walls of trees which promote fungus on greens and block good air flow.  A second one was narrow to begin with, and had gotten narrower as the trees have grown. Five of the fairway landing areas can't keep grass because they're in the shade 22 hours a day. Also, the tiny greens can't take the battering of heavy play. With excess capacity in the area, I don't know if the high cost of repairs would be justified.
• Government-owned courses: Political scientists say muny and county golf courses are popular because they're the only government entitlement for middle-class males. Cost overruns are often an interaction between two factors: Chronyism, and poor management. If the course is run by the mayor's substance-abusing half-brother, don't expect good things to happen. If city council members and their former fraternity buddies play for free, this hurts net income. Also, you may have people with good intentions who just don't know how to run a course. Course-management firms can fill the gap here.

Another complaint about government-owned golf course: They get subsidies that privately-owned public courses don't. I'm sure you have views on this topic.

As for too many sand traps, I've heard this before. I talked to an assistant pro whose failing country club was bought out by a management firm. The new owners to cover over about half the sand traps, and open up the slender landing areas on the longer holes.

Remember: No. 14 at Augusta - a 440 yd. par 4 - has no bunkers at all.

[golftoday]

I'm in California and from what I've seen the majority of the courses throughout the general Los Angeles area are doing okay . My guess is you would see a direct correlation between financially impacted geographies and their corresponding courses. Let's be honest, golf isnt' a cheap sport and it makes sense that people wouldn't be playing to the same extent that they were when time where good. That being said, I haven't seen a huge impact here in LA.

[mvmac]

Lots of great deals here in San Diego, lol   Clubs that were $100K to join 10 years ago are now $20K and almost every club is doing a "preview" membership.  Public courses are hanging in there. You don't have to spend the night in your car to play Torrey Pines anymore

[sean_miller]

I think our local courses are doing "okay" but not as well as they used to considering we don't have trouble getting tee times.

My course has a lot of seniors as members and to be honest, and although most of them are great to play a round with, they typically have a chip on their shoulder towards younger players and don't in any way inspire me to sign my kids up for memberships.

[Fozcycle]

In the last couple years, two Private golf clubs in the Tampa Bay area have gone belly-up and have been aquired by an individual who re-conditioned the courses and their clubhouses, then moved them into the Semi-private sector.  They now have three courses available to them, instead of just one. The fee structure has been adjusted to attract non-members as regular players.

Another course closed three years ago, and has now reopened as a better, more luxurious club that is totally public...but for a for profit. Their rates are temporary low and will probably increase after the soft opening period is over...

Local golfers are playing where they can get the best deal for their money.

I do not belong to a club as a paying member, but am afforded a few benefits because I run a Saturday game which draws about 24 - 30 golfers every week(over 1,200 rounds per year).  Of the 24 - 30, about 10 - 12 of the players spend considerable sums in the club pub after their round.  This does not go unnoticed by the ownership, who have slowly begun to provide more discounts to the Saturday game players.

I guess i am lucky to have these types of choices.

[bogey joe]

Sean,  I run into the same problem on a daily basis.  It's sord of an old guard vs new guard scenerio.  I love the old guard because they are colorful, wise, and very fun to play with but they have had their run of the place for so long it is hard to bring change to bear around here.  In the two years I have been here I have slowly...., slowly implemented changes to benefit the greater good but to this point it has been a slow go.  I have a great group of guys as a whole, but it is by far the new guard that generate the greatest amount of money for me.  So I guess at the end of the day I have a battle of old vs. new vs. my family and bank account.  The old guard here deserves respect and I give that to them, but my family deserves food on the table and that will win everytime.

[inthehole]

Nobody in northeastern PA is making money this year - I can't recall seeing so much consistent rainfall in one year.    I've played around 50 times, and 2/3 of that has been "mud golf" - awful conditions.       Several courses have been partially washed out - the biggest course in my county closed two weeks ago (two months early) for the season, which is unprecedented...

[bogey joe]

WUTiger, I appreciate your well thought out and well read response.  I have been thinking along the same lines as you on the management contract, but am going to wait out the winter to see if my prospects in a negotiation would be stronger after the cold months.  Anyway thanks for the great response.

[newtogolf]

The economy and reduced interest in golf since Tigers marital and swing problems have definitely impacted local golf courses.   I can see the combination of a less manicured course and lower green fees as being somewhat risky in that you might attract more golfers but they might not be the right type of golfers.  Most golfers I know have a decent amount of disposable income and don't mind paying green fees at a course that is well taken care of, well managed and has a customer base that's fairly respectful of other golfers.

If a course allows the rough to get overgrown and the greens unkept it would likely discourage a serious golfer from playing there.  In turn you might attract more golfing families, lower income golfers and less serious golfers which could be good represent additional revenue but could also potentially chase away the serious golfers.  The downside there is serious golfers are more likely to play in poor weather which depending on where the course is located could really impact overall revenue.  This year in NY the weather has been pretty rough for golf with the record snowfall in the Winter, lack of a Spring season and record rainfall and flooding in some areas over the Summer.  Courses here have had a tough time keeping their fairways and greens in decent shape.  The shortened season combined with poor weather made the serious golfers I know more willing to spend the extra money required to play nicer courses when we could get out.

[Jmdmbike]

Here in the GTA (Greater Toronto Area) we have lots of great public golf to choose from and courses here have stayed very busy through the last few years. There are also very few "deals" being offered to entice people to play golf because courses around here basically don't need to.

[GaijinGolfer]

Most of the courses around here are struggling but finding ways to survive.

[hongman]

This year's excessively rainy weather during spring and late summer/early fall, combined with continuing economic woes, has really hurt our local NE Ohio courses.  A number of country clubs have reduced or eliminated initiation fee's and some have opened up limited tee times and/or restaurants to the public.  Many public courses have reduced their rates to the bone as well.  The mid level public course I play at is still in fairly good condition, but is in the process of letting some sand traps transition to either mud flats or grass bunkers.  Rainy weather was blamed for reduced play at my home course, and by July, the restaurant/bar business alone, was down some $200K compared to last year according to the bar manager.  Our local driving ranges aren't doing much better either.

[mdl]

I agree with golftoday.  I'm also in LA, and I only play the affordable course, both the LA city and county courses and the cheaper privates.  I know for a fact the LA public courses, overall, are doing quite well financially.  They raised their rates maybe 6 months ago and at a large percentage of the courses it's still hard to get a good tee time on the weekends if you don't plan a week in advance.  I was told by one of the staff at one of my main courses (a city course) that their course alone brings in enough money to cover the entire budget for the LA Parks and Rec department.

Of course, they're still squeezing the budget to make as much as possible off the courses, and this one in particular, where they played PGA events WAY back and Senior events I believe into the early 80s (as evidence that it's a great track), no longer has any marshalls Mon-Thu, and not enough Fri-Sun, continues to pack tee times too close together, meaning traffic is too heavy to support a nicer, closer, faster cut on the greens, and general groundskeeping funds have been squeezed as well so the course is never in as good shape as it could be.

Financially though, I'd say that in the city of LA at least, most of the courses I play are still pretty busy and seem to be doing fine despite the economic times.  I think a lot of that is driven by the fact that close to the city proper there was never enough space for a massive build out, so there's not a lot of excess capacity of courses for people who can only afford less expensive courses.  If I don't want to drive more than 30 minutes there's only maybe 6 or 7 decent courses in my price range, and there's millions of people in that 30 minute circle.