Tiger Injures Achilles Tendon

[newtogolf]

I'm not sure you're the only one, but I'd guess you're in the minority but in good company with all the Tiger haters.  Based on what I read, Tiger said it felt stiff during warmups and he tweaked it during his tee shot on 12 just as the article Mike posted states.  If that's the case, he felt stiffness but gave it a try.  On the tee shot at 12 he felt something worse and took into account his chances of winning, chances of hurting himself worse, cost of risking long term injury to his endorsements and income and decided it was best to call it a day, I don't see what's unsportsman like about it.

Players get hurt in other sports all the time, the coaches perform a risk assessment taking into account the game importance, game conditions, nature of injury and risk of additional damage to determine if the player returns.   You hear all the time that Player X is shut down for the rest of this game but the coaches said if it was a playoff game he would have returned.  Tiger made a decision that was best for him long term.  I'm sure he weighed out all the consequences which include having people like you call him a quitter and decided it was better for him to quit than risk a more serious injury.

Originally Posted by k-troop

Am I the only one who thinks Tiger's WD is unsportsmanlike?  If I am, I'll re-think my position.  But here's what we know--

--Tiger's achilles is part of what kept him out of most of the 2010 season.

--Tiger felt the tightness during his warm-up during the a.m., and it didn't go away during his warm-up session.

--Tiger shot 62 last Sunday, and his ballstriking has been really good for a few weeks.

--Tiger withdrew when he was +3 or +4 through 11.

--By his own public statement, Tiger wasn't going to have his achilles checked out immediately after the WD.  He was going to get it looked at "sometime early next week."

My Conclusion:  Tiger felt the pain, but thought he could play through it when he had a chance to win.  He made the decision to quit only after it was apparent that he could not win.

Before knee-jerk reacting to this and saying horrible things about my parents, consider this:  Do you think Tiger would have quit if he were 3 shots back?

Is this not unsportsmanlike?  In our game, is it okay to allow "well, I can' win now" to be a factor in deciding whether it's okay to quit?

Critiques to this conclusion:

1. Tiger has a big fat well-paid doctor.  He called the doctor, who told him to elevate, ice, avoid, and see him in a few days when he could better evaluate whether it was a flare-up or a re-injury.  That's not "getting it checked out" in Tiger's mind.  Therefore, we can't conclude that Tiger's injury is minor just because he said "I'll be getting it checked out later this week."

--Counterpoint to 1:  why didn't Tiger just say that?  How hard is it to say:  "I spoke with my Doctor, he told me that he would be able to tell better in a few days whether this was just a painful flare-up or a re-injury..." if that's what really happened?

2. He was realistically out of contention late in the back nine, but played 3 or 4 more holes.  So he didn't quit "when it was apparent he couldn't win."

--Counterpoint to 2:  Do you think he would have quit on 12 if he was 2 or 3 behind the leader?  If you think he would have kept playing, then it should be apparent to you that the fact that he couldn't win factored into quitting.

3. Tiger couldn't have realistically thought that he could win when he teed it up.

--Counterpoint to 3:  That statement goes against everything Tiger stands for, and his 62 last Sunday tends to undercut this assumption.

4. Tiger's injury was getting worse throughout the day.

--Counterpoint to 4:  I'm not sure what point this makes.  Tiger was still walking.  He drove home.  He's played in FAR WORSE pain when he was in contention.  And, again:  would he have quit if he was still in contention?

5. Tiger's achilles/knee has kept him out of part of two seasons in the last 4 years.  A re-injury could cost him another season, millions of dollars (who cares), Jack's record, Ryder Cup, etc.

--Counterpoint to 5:  Then he should have never teed it up Sunday.  He should have walked from the range to the press tent and explained the situation.  If Doral is just a little warm-up on his quest for Majors glory, then how can he justify teeing it up on Sunday at all it if it risks the entire rest of his career?  (The only way is if he wins the tournament, ergo, he quit after it was clear that he couldn't win.)

I've thought about this a lot.  I don't see how you can look at the WD without seeing that "I couldn't win" factored into his decision to quit.  I also can't believe that is okay, given what our sport is about.  Bobby Jones quit in the middle of his first Open Championship.  Most folks agree that was a (if not THE) low point in his career.  Golfers and Sportsmen don't quit in the middle of a round just because they can't win.  I'm willing to reconsider this conclusion, but I'll need to be convinced.

[Elvisliveson]

Originally Posted by walk18

I can only guess that you weren't squatting obscene amounts of weight, because a golfing buddy of mine tore both his doing exactly that. Though I will agree that running on pavement can be tough on you as well.

As a former natural amateur bodybuilder, I have always trained with extremely heavy weights. But, I know what I am doing and I'm very careful. Under supervision of personal trainers, I'm sure Tiger was same, plus it has been written that he really didn't lift heavy weights.

Heavy, well balanced lifting is not debilitating in the least if proper form is utilized. There is no comparison to the constant, continuous pounding your body takes from running on pavementwhether you use proper form or not, any doctor will tell you that.

[k-troop]

Originally Posted by newtogolf

I'm not sure you're the only one, but I'd guess you're in the minority but in good company with all the Tiger haters.

Why do I have to be a Tiger hater?  Why do we have to call people names, assume, etc?  Can't we just address facts and arguments?

[k-troop]

Originally Posted by Elvisliveson

As a former natural amateur bodybuilder, I have always trained with extremely heavy weights. But, I know what I am doing and I'm very careful. Under supervision of personal trainers, I'm sure Tiger was same, plus it has been written that he really didn't lift heavy weights.

Fair points, but I think it's also fair to assume that only Tiger decides what Tiger's limits are.  And I recall a Sports Illustrated (I think) article a few years ago that had Tiger on the cover wearing only compression shorts.  His trainer described his weight routine, and wouldn't comment on specific weights, but commented something to the effect of "Yeah--it's a lot [of weight]."

[k-troop]

Originally Posted by newtogolf

Based on what I read, Tiger said it felt stiff during warmups and he tweaked it during his tee shot on 12 just as the article Mike posted states.

BTW the statement Mike posted is verbatim what was read during the coverage yesterday, which supposedly came from Tiger's mouth through his rep.  It does not say "he tweaked it during his tee shot on 12."  It says he decided to quit after his tee shot on 12.

There was some reference to the Masters last year when he "tweaked" something during a shot which led to the WD at the Players or something like that.

Here's the only other primary source I can find on this:

"It looked like he made a swing on 12 that really hurt," said Webb Simpson , who played with Woods during the final round. "But he didn't say a whole lot. He just said he's got to be done. It looked like he was in some pain ... maybe his heel was bothering him, something with his foot. I don't think it's anything serious, but we didn't talk or anything so I'm not sure exactly what it was."

[Elvisliveson]

Originally Posted by k-troop

Fair points, but I think it's also fair to assume that only Tiger decides what Tiger's limits are.  And I recall a Sports Illustrated (I think) article a few years ago that had Tiger on the cover wearing only compression shorts.  His trainer described his weight routine, and wouldn't comment on specific weights, but commented something to the effect of "Yeah--it's a lot [of weight]."

Let's not speculate, here's what Tiger himself said on the subject: http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/19468221/ . In the article he says, he's never injured himself lifting weights and that he "opts for smaller weights and more repetitions" not letting his ego get in the way.

[Paradox]

Its silly to think that someone of Tigers stature and nature doesn't have the best trainer telling him whats good and whats not.  I don't think lifting weights is the problem directly.  If it has anything to do with weightlifting, its that his strength has surpassed what his body is capable of..meaning that he pushes past the limits often.

Lets not forget Tigers age, either.  He's played a lot of high level golf in his time already.  I see no problem with the WD...if you're hurt, you're hurt.  In fact, I give him props for trying to compete even when he knew it was already a problem before he even hit his first tee shot.

I don't think we'll ever see the "old Tiger" because Tiger is now old.

[newtogolf]

I said your opinion was in the minority but would likely be shared by Tiger haters.  I agree it wasn't obvious, but I wasn't calling you a Tiger hater.

Originally Posted by k-troop

Why do I have to be a Tiger hater?  Why do we have to call people names, assume, etc?  Can't we just address facts and arguments?

[k-troop]

Originally Posted by Elvisliveson

Let's not speculate, here's what Tiger himself said on the subject: http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/19468221/ . In the article he says, he's never injured himself lifting weights and that he "opts for smaller weights and more repetitions" not letting his ego get in the way.

I wasn't speculating.  And you could argue that both of these articles support either conclusion.

Right now, Kleven says, Woods' lifting level is "off the charts." He wouldn't talk specific weights but said Woods recently reached new highs. "His endurance and strength allows us to do more reps at high levels [of weight] than normally seen in a golfer. His resistance for high reps is extremely high."

But I didn't remember the article completely, either.

http://sports.espn.go.com/golf/news/story?id=2921413

[newtogolf]

They showed footage of him limping after his 2nd shot on 10 and mentioned he had changed shoes at the turn kept lifting his leg and flexing his ankle.   They said after his tee shot on 12 that he was in pain and told Simpson he was heading in.

Originally Posted by k-troop

BTW the statement Mike posted is verbatim what was read during the coverage yesterday, which supposedly came from Tiger's mouth through his rep.  It does not say "he tweaked it during his tee shot on 12."  It says he decided to quit after his tee shot on 12.

There was some reference to the Masters last year when he "tweaked" something during a shot which led to the WD at the Players or something like that.

Here's the only other primary source I can find on this:

"It looked like he made a swing on 12 that really hurt," said Webb Simpson, who played with Woods during the final round. "But he didn't say a whole lot. He just said he's got to be done. It looked like he was in some pain ... maybe his heel was bothering him, something with his foot. I don't think it's anything serious, but we didn't talk or anything so I'm not sure exactly what it was."

[k-troop]

Originally Posted by newtogolf

I said your opinion was in the minority but would likely be shared by Tiger haters.  I agree it wasn't obvious, but I wasn't calling you a Tiger hater.

Fair enough, and I concede your point.  I just think the conclusion on this should be more objective than whether you're a Tiger-lover or Tiger-hater.

I used to have my head firmly implanted in Tiger's jock, but I've tried to be more objective about him lately.  My head is now firmly implanted in Phil's jock, but Rory just sent me a drink from the other side of the bar...

[brocks]

Running has always been listed as the likely culprit for all Tiger's leg maladies. I can attest to this as someone who has been working out with heavy weights for 20+ years and is also a runner. All my leg injuries (knee, hamstring, achilles and plantar fasciitis), have been the direct result of running. I have never had a lower body injury as the result of squats or deadlifts. The doctor told me on numerous occasions to stop running on pavement, but never told me to curtail my lifting activities.

Beat me to it. My experience is exactly the same.

[walk18]

Originally Posted by k-troop

Am I the only one who thinks Tiger's WD is unsportsmanlike?  If I am, I'll re-think my position.  But here's what we know--

I don't think it was unsportsmanlike, and I don't think he owes anyone an explanation other than he has an injury to his achilles.

[Shorty]

Originally Posted by zipazoid

It's still about getting it into the hole in the fewest amount of strokes. And my point was, Tiger is going to have to rely more on his mind than his body to win now. If he needs inspiration, he can look to what Hogan went thru, regardless if whether it was in a different era.

Tiger isn't the kind of person who looks for inspiration from the goilden age of golf or anything else. He doesn't strike me as a sentimental type. He wants to be fit and healthy. End of story.

[TourSpoon]

I have the same experience here...

[Elvisliveson]

Originally Posted by k-troop

I wasn't speculating.  And you could argue that both of these articles support either conclusion.

Right now, Kleven says, Woods' lifting level is "off the charts." He wouldn't talk specific weights but said Woods recently reached new highs. "His endurance and strength allows us to do more reps at high levels [of weight] than normally seen in a golfer. His resistance for high reps is extremely high."

But I didn't remember the article completely, either.

http://sports.espn.go.com/golf/news/story?id=2921413

How can you argue that? You are misinterpreting what they said. Have you ever seriously lifted before? By definition, if you are doing a large amount of repetitions, you are not using a seriously heavy weight for you and that's all that matters. He may be able to use heavier weights than the average person can for 25 reps, as can I, but relative to him it's not seriously heavy then. To truly lift heavy he would have to use a weight at which he could only perform 4-6 reps for, not 25. I don't know how much clearer I can make this.

[zipazoid]

Originally Posted by Shorty

Tiger isn't the kind of person who looks for inspiration from the goilden age of golf or anything else. He doesn't strike me as a sentimental type. He wants to be fit and healthy. End of story.

Okay then he won't. All I'm saying is golfers have come back from more catastrophic injuries than a tweaked Achilles.

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by zipazoid

My guess is he will pull out of Bay Hill & the next time we see him is Augusta.

And if that happens, I just can't see him winning.  I thought he was on a good track to progress toward major victories this season, but if this limits his practice & play time, it derails said progress IMO.

Brandon