Tiger Injures Achilles Tendon

[brocks]

If he didn't WD at the 2010 Bridgestone, when he was DFL and 30 shots behind the winner, then I think it's safe to say he didn't quit just because he couldn't win yesterday.

[Ballsndrama]

I do enjoy watching Woods play, but after watching for the past few years I have to say I think tiger is a big faker.  He reminds me of a pro basketball player that hits the ground crying after a light foul then gets up and drains the free throws and finishes 3 more quarters strong.  He cant beat everyone now and its hurt him mentaly. He needs to stop being a baby and man up.  This shits gettin old. Play golf and quit cryin tiger or quit for good. Either you can play pro golf or you cant, there aint no quitting. Ahhhhh I feel better now.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Ballsndrama

I do enjoy watching Woods play, but after watching for the past few years I have to say I think tiger is a big faker.  He reminds me of a pro basketball player that hits the ground crying after a light foul then gets up and drains the free throws and finishes 3 more quarters strong.  He cant beat everyone now and its hurt him mentaly. He needs to stop being a baby and man up.  This shits gettin old. Play golf and quit cryin tiger or quit for good. Either you can play pro golf or you cant, there aint no quitting. Ahhhhh I feel better now.

He's still beating a lot of people. And despite not having played in the 40 tournaments they use as the minimum divisor, he's in the top 20 in the world rankings.

[mvmac]

Good to see it's only a mild strain and that he'll be hitting balls soon

[k-troop]

Good to hear that Tiger could still be a factor in Augusta.  I truly hope he is--it's my favorite tournament of the year, and it's always better when he's playing well.

Also good points in this thread throughout.  It seems that the vast majority of folks think that, in Tiger's case, it was perfectly reasonable to play through the pain until it was evident that he couldn't win, but that it was also perfectly reasonable for him to WD when it was apparent that he couldn't.  Clearly his injury also progressed throughout the round, but I think most agreed that he would have kept playing anyway if he was in contention, so that's a non-starter.

As I'm clearly in the minority, I guess my prior judgment is changed.  I'll take back my "Tiger is a crybaby" irratated post from yesterday.

As far as some of the other points raised:

--Rory's playing through his wrist injury at last year's PGA.  This is a different situation from Tiger's, as he continued to play.  Obviously it would have been fine for him to quit when the injury happened.  He didn't though, so not really relevant.

--Tiger's failure to WD in other events where he played injured.  Well, those are other events, and if anything, it just shows that he could have continued to play if he wanted to.  And the fact that he gutted out the '08 US Open only shows that, when he's in contention, he'll play with an injury.  Still doesn't change the fact that he evaluated his injury differently this week when he knew he couldn't win.  But since that's not a problem, then it doesn't really matter.

--What about other players WDing?  Well, we didn't really talk about other players.  I guess it would be interesting to know about Freddy Couples, who played with back injuries most of his 40s.  How many tournaments did he WD in the middle of a round?  Was he ever in contention when he did?  I don't know the answers to these questions.

I will say that Tiger's win at the 2008 US Open is, for me, the greatest single golf victory of all time.  To stick in that event with the level of pain he was in was truly heroic.  To win the thing--playing 19 extra holes--that is just unfathomable.

[k-troop]

Originally Posted by brocks

“He would have kept going if he was in contention!” (Well, yeah. No kidding. Same goes for every other player on Tour. If you’re injured, but in contention, you gut it out; if you’re injured and out of the mix, there’s no point in risking further damage to the injury.)

Quote:

If he didn't WD at the 2010 Bridgestone, when he was DFL and 30 shots behind the winner, then I think it's safe to say he didn't quit just because he couldn't win yesterday.

[jhwmusic]

okay...lets try it this way...cuz the fact that you guys are calling him a quitter is ridiculous. I am not even a huge fan, and disagree with a lot of what he does, but jesus. Yes, he wasn't playing well and Yes, maybe he could have fought through the pain finished off the tournament. But he could also torn that achilles and been shelved for the entire year, longer or forever. So I am going to try to give you similar circumstance but not in golf or sport for that matter. So lets say you were a senior at and at the end of your final semester and approaching finals week...lets also say this last semester is a very light load because you have busted your ass your whole college career and have a 4.0 GPA...you are the cream of the crop. You have actually worked so hard that you have light load and only have two finals left to take to graduate...not to mention you have a very good chance at becoming Valedictorian of your class.. The first test is your an easy elective class that you decided to save for your last semester so you can enjoy yourself...and no matter how you do on this test, you would still receive an A. The other test was in Advanced Biochemistry (Major Championship) and if you didn't get an A, not only would you not become Valedictorian, but you wouldn't be accepted into the top medical school in the world and go on to fulfill your dream of being the best Neurosurgeon the world has ever seen...not to mention catch an endless amount of shit and questions from your parents (The Press). But here's the catch, you get the flu the week before finals and can't study or even get out of bed until the night before the easy test and two days before the Advanced Biochemistry Test. What do you do? What would your game plan be? A) Ignore the sickness, pull yourself out of bed, go to the library, and stay up all night reviewing for a test in a class that you already have sealed up because of your insane work ethic? And possibly risk getting sicker and prevent you from studying for and performing on the test that really matters...Your MAJOR CHAMPIONSHIP that could take you to where you want to be. B) Stay home, relax, drink your fluids and eat chicken noodle soup and make sure you get a good nights sleep so you don't get any sicker. Hence enhancing your chances of having the health/energy to prepare for the test that matters. The test that if you can prepare like you know how, you will be accepted into the best medical school and move toward your goal of being known as the best neurosurgeon of all time. The GOAT! C) Screw both tests and go to the bar Unless you are an idiot, you would choose B. I know this just a general example, but you guys spend way to much time judging this guy. Half of you would quit at the turn if you had a blister on your thumb. I know he gets payed millions of dollars to play a game and you don't, but I am pretty sure he knows what is best for Tiger. Just like you know what is best for you when you aren't feeling well. Tiger made the right decision. And yes, he was out of contention, but IMO it made it an ever better decision. It doesn't make him a quitter...it actually makes him a pretty smart guy. Achilles tears aren't the kind of injuries you just throw some ice on and sit out a few weeks....his season would be done for sure! And then some of you guys would then probably say he was a dumbass for not pulling out when he felt the tightness. Tiger will never win with you guys no matter what he does. He would have be scrutinized for finishing poorly if he didn't pull out...and you know I am right.

[k-troop]

Originally Posted by jhwmusic

Unless you are an idiot, you would choose B.

Not to belabor a point (when would I ever do that?), but your example isn't really analogous.  An analogous example would be going to the test, discovering that you couldn't figure out the answers, and only at that point determining that your illness was so severe that you couldn't continue.  So you quit the test halfway through and invoke your school's medical excusal policy.

Regardless, the only one who was calling him a quitter here was me, and I've conceded that my judgment was too harsh.

[walk18]

Guess the injury wasn't as bad as we thought.

[sean_miller]

Who thought the injury was "bad"? Tought his WD was preventative, hence not bad, just potentially bad.

Originally Posted by walk18

Guess the injury wasn't as bad as we thought.

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by k-troop

Okay, substitue 500 for his 1RM.  The rest of the logic still remains intact.

And I've seen plenty of recreational lifters enter the 1000# club with squats at or near 500#.  They're not professional athletes, of Tiger's determination, with professional trainers, dedicating their every breath to excellence in sport.  I have personally hit over 400# many times, and I'm certainly no Tiger Woods.

I've seen a lot of people incorrectly squat too (and then claim it as a max).  I've also seen many college and pro athletes who couldn't squat more than some recreational lifters.

I know for certain that anything over 400 is impressive and generally not easy.  When I was still in my playing days, I put up a squat number much higher than several of our offensive lineman who could outbench me by hundreds of lbs, simply because I had better form and shorter legs.  No matter how strong people are in other general areas, squatting is not something you can just assume somebody does at a high level.

Originally Posted by jhwmusic

okay...lets try it this way...cuz the fact that you guys are calling him a quitter is ridiculous.

I personally think it's pointless to argue with them or get too worked up over it.  If you didn't see that the "quitter, crybaby, faker" accusations were going to be thrown around the moment he withdrew then you are giving some of these folks way too much credit.  And there isn't much you can point out to change their minds, if anything.

Brandon

[zipazoid]

Let's dispense of a few of things -

1. Tiger's no wuss. He walked 91 holes in the US Open with torn knee ligaments & a stress fracture in his leg.

2. Tiger's not a quitter. As mentioned earlier in the thread, he finished at Firestone a few years back when he was a zillion shots out of the lead.

3. Tiger is guarded with the media. So when he WD'd at Doral, he left as quickly as possible before the media got hep to what's going on & get surrounded.

Now I am sure the above will label me by some as having my head firmly up Tiger's butt. What-freekin-ever. I would hope, rather, that I stated some facts with examples of each & people can see that.

But I'm not holding my breath.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by zipazoid

Let's dispense of a few of things -

1. Tiger's no wuss. He walked 91 holes in the US Open with torn knee ligaments & a stress fracture in his leg.

2. Tiger's not a quitter. As mentioned earlier in the thread, he finished at Firestone a few years back when he was a zillion shots out of the lead.

3. Tiger is guarded with the media. So when he WD'd at Doral, he left as quickly as possible before the media got hep to what's going on & get surrounded.

Now I am sure the above will label me by some as having my head firmly up Tiger's butt. What-freekin-ever. I would hope, rather, that I stated some facts with examples of each & people can see that.

But I'm not holding my breath.

Just in case any devil's advocates are too afraid to speak up, I'll take the plunge.

1.) A lot of athletes play with stress fractures and don't even know about it until later. It's not like he had a greenstick break or a compound fracture with the bone sticking out. It was obvious he was in a fair amount of pain, but when you're on the PEDs you can play through it (j/k).

2.) That tournament was during "Operation Rebuild Tiger's Tarnished Demolished Reputation" so unlike now, it was in Tiger's best interest to soldier on and garner some sympathy. He's at a point now where that's not necessary. Thanks Stevie, Hank, Stevie, etc. Probably it could be said that the 2010 event at Firestone could be considered the exception rather than the rule at this point?!?

Tiger is pouty. It's his nature. If he'd fallen to the ground then been carted off with icepacks and waved to the crowd while saying witty things to all the media, he'd still get roasted. Get used to it, just like the people who didn't pull for him for a decade had to get used to him hoisting trophies.

[zipazoid]

Originally Posted by sean_miller

2.) That tournament was during "Operation Rebuild Tiger's  Tarnished Demolished Reputation" so unlike now, it was in Tiger's best interest to soldier on and garner some sympathy. He's at a point now where that's not necessary. Thanks Stevie, Hank, Stevie, etc. Probably it could be said that the 2010 event at Firestone could be considered the exception rather than the rule at this point?!?

Actually, no, it can't be said. At least not with a straight face.

Did I miss some trend of his to WD when he plays bad? IIRC, I read where he was WD'd five times in his career. Once every 3 1/2 years.

No, the 'rule' is he finishes tournaments he starts. The 'exception' would be those five occurrences.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by zipazoid

Quote:

Originally Posted by sean_miller

2.) That tournament was during "Operation Rebuild Tiger's  Tarnished Demolished Reputation" so unlike now, it was in Tiger's best interest to soldier on and garner some sympathy. He's at a point now where that's not necessary. Thanks Stevie, Hank, Stevie, etc. Probably it could be said that the 2010 event at Firestone could be considered the exception rather than the rule at this point?!?

Actually, no, it can't be said. At least not with a straight face.

Did I miss some trend of his to WD when he plays bad? IIRC, I read where he was WD'd five times in his career. Once every 3 1/2 years.

No, the 'rule' is he finishes tournaments he starts. The 'exception' would be those five occurrences.

Not aware of the timing of his 5 WDs or even that he had that many. How many came after that event at Firestone? When I imagine people sitting around the campfire telling the story of his heroic "not withdrawing" at Firestone in 2010 I do find it hard to keep a straight face. The legend grows every day.

[zipazoid]

He deserves no medals for not withdrawing. He just doesn't deserve to be called a quitter.

[k-troop]

Originally Posted by sean_miller

Not aware of the timing of his 5 WDs or even that he had that many. How many came after that event at Firestone? When I imagine people sitting around the campfire telling the story of his heroic "not withdrawing" at Firestone in 2010 I do find it hard to keep a straight face. The legend grows every day.

His WDs since 2010 WGC-Bridgestone at Firestone:  2011 Players (after he was +7 for 9 holes), and 2012 Doral.

He also withdrew at the 2010 Players, just a few months prior to the Bridgestone.

One of his 5 WDs was in 1995 as an amateur.  I don't remember when the other one was (maybe when he had his knee scoped in 2005ish?)

So, I think it's fair to say that the current trend is 1 WD/year.  3 WDs in 3 years isn't necessarily a "trend", but it's a lot more accurate than describing it as 1 WD every 3.5 years.

[k-troop]

Wait, now I'm confused.  Was Tiger hurt at the 2010 Bridgestone?  Was he playing injured?  Or we're just arguing whether he's some kind of hero because he didn't quit when he shot +18 for the week?