What would you have done? (Course respect question) And also, whats the call?

[iacas]

Originally Posted by ApocG10

How the hell was I the aggressor? All I tried to do was stop him before he hit the shot, then when he took the divot out I gave him a, 'Man, what are you doing, this is a putting green, you dont take iron shots off of it", to which he got cocky, but there was NO angry words until the marshall kicked him off and he came up to me swearing, calling me a f**king prick, an *******, and everything inbetween.

To be fair, I think this is the part that reads as "you were an aggressor":

Originally Posted by ApocG10

I confronted him, and had a heated discussion, basicly getting a 'I dont care, im just here for fun attitude', so I called the clubhouse. One of the course marshalls come out to talk to the guy.

Words like "confronted" and "heated discussion" occur before you called the clubhouse and are "aggressive" sounding.

[ApocG10]

Agreed, but the heated discussion came from him acting like it was no big deal and telling me to basicly mind my own business. I didnt swear, I didnt yell, and I didnt act like aprick until he he got mouthy with me. Even then, I said very little until he attacked me after being kicked off theb course.  Without typing out the whole conversation, I can tell you that I did nothing aggressive aside from trying to stop him from taking the shot, it was he who became mouthy and pretended it was no biug deal. I admit I worded the OP wrong, and it does sound quite bad. But the cockiness and arguement did 100% start from his side.

[phillyk]

I assume that if everyone in the group agrees it to be GUR, then relief may be taken as it wasn't marked as GUR.

I have never ran into this situation, so Idk how I'd take it.  It would depend on my mood.
But, certainly if it was a private country club, I would speak up, because that is simple bad etiquette and disrespect.  Saying he was just having fun is not an excuse.  He should've consulted someone in his group before hitting that shot, because I'm sure someone would know the correct procedure.

[Shorty]

Originally Posted by phillyk

I assume that if everyone in the group agrees it to be GUR, then relief may be taken as it wasn't marked as GUR.

No, you can't.

Be that as it may, in this situation, if we really are talking about a huge gouge, I think that it would be a circumstance where the group could agree to allow the player to move his ball a few inches to the side.

Again. you aren't allowed to do that either, but it's probably a "rules infraction" that you could convince others was not unreasonable.

We are talking about a casual round of golf, aren't we?

I think the OP is fibbing a little bit.

He could have repaired the divot to the point where he could have putted over it.

By saying he took a penalty, he is trying to establish some "integrity credentials".

Unfortunately for him, he also felt the need to tell us about his supreme physical stature and conditioning, so the integrity went out the window.

Was that after or before we learnt about his perfect "feathery" shot with backspin?

[ApocG10]

Originally Posted by Shorty

No, you can't.

Be that as it may, in this situation, if we really are talking about a huge gouge, I think that it would be a circumstance where the group could agree to allow the player to move his ball a few inches to the side.

Again. you aren't allowed to do that either, but it's probably a "rules infraction" that you could convince others was not unreasonable.

We are talking about a casual round of golf, aren't we?

I think the OP is fibbing a little bit.

He could have repaired the divot to the point where he could have putted over it.

By saying he took a penalty, he is trying to establish some "integrity credentials".

Unfortunately for him, he also felt the need to tell us about his supreme physical stature and conditioning, so the integrity went out the window.

Was that after or before we learnt about his perfect "feathery" shot with backspin?

Unfortunately my friend, physical conditioning is important when you work in human kinetics and nutrition. And that is my field. I dont work with golfers (I wish I did, actually, i'd probably learn a lot), but I do have to stay in shape.

[zeg]

Originally Posted by phillyk

I assume that if everyone in the group agrees it to be GUR, then relief may be taken as it wasn't marked as GUR.

Strictly speaking, as Shorty said, that's not a "real" option. However, I think it'd be eminently reasonable to do so.

The OP's approach really doesn't make sense from a rules standpoint. I don't mean this as an attack, just an observation. After all, I would imagine everyone who's played golf more than a few times has had some "silly" rules violations. They often seem to make sense at the time.

Basically, either you follow the rules or you don't. Moving the ball two club heads without taking a stroke for an unplayable lie is just as illegal as moving the ball two club lengths. You might as well take full relief even if you're not sure you're entitled to it. If you're going to play it as a GUR, then you should follow the proper rule. No sense taking half-relief because you're unsure. Take all or nothing, there's no benefit to being anywhere in between.

[bplewis24]

IMO, if the OP tried to dissuade the golfer from taking his shot before he took the shot, he was the "aggressor" for good reason: he was trying to prevent it from happening.  That type of "aggression" is justified.  How you do it is still delicate, but he absolutely should have tried to flag the guy down and prevent him from taking the shot.  Not to the point that there is a heated exchange, but sometimes those things can't be helped.  If the other guy is clueless enough or enough of a douchbag to take a divot on the green, he might also be the type to escalate the situation beyond civility.

As to any rulings, I played a tournament a month ago where the officials saw some dead, garbled up patches of a green.  The official following my group instructed us to take relief from our line if we deemed those areas of the green to affect our putts.  It was not marked GUR.

Brandon

[BuckeyeNut]

Originally Posted by ApocG10

Not knowing what do to do, I took a penalty stroke and moved my ball two clubheads to the right, out of the path of *******s divot, instead of waiting for the greens grew to come fix it and screwing up the pace of play for everyone else.

I don't mean to bust your chops, but I think you're full of sh!t  LOL......it's a saturday morning casual round for Gods sake!   Even if you're in a money game with a regular group....no playing partner would assess strokes so you could move your ball away from a divot some j@ckass hacked from the green. Me....i'd move my ball no closer to the hole to either side just enough so the divot was off my line.  All you would need to do is move your ball a few inches left or right.....no closer to the hole to clear your line from the divot.

LOL....so you took an unplayable lie penalty to move your ball while resting on the green?   Hahahahaha.....too funny!! .....yea, whatever.....suuure

[turtleback]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bplewis24

As to any rulings, I played a tournament a month ago where the officials saw some dead, garbled up patches of a green.  The official following my group instructed us to take relief from our line if we deemed those areas of the green to affect our putts.  It was not marked GUR.

Brandon

The rules clearly authorize a player to request the Committee to declare a condition as GUR that was not so marked previously.  And they authorize the Committee to do so.  By analogy:

Quote:

Decision 25/12

Cracks in Earth

Q. Are cracks in the earth which occur in hot and dry conditions ground under repair? Do the Rules of Golf provide relief?

A. No. However, a player whose ball is in a large crack would be justified in requesting the Committee to declare the crack to be ground under repair, and the Committee would be justified in doing so.

In your case the official, acting on behalf of the Committee, made just such a determination.

So if this was a tournament round he would have gotten free relief from the divot on the green.  In equity, the same result should occur even though it was a casual round.

What he could have done was take a picture of the divot on the green and gone to the rules committee (if he is a member of the club) or the pro shop (if not a member) and ask them to declare it GUR.  Then he could deduct the penalty stroke, since no reasonable person would fail to call that ground under repair, since it is exactly the reason that the rules require a drop off of an incorrect green.

Yes, I understand that no one would do this in practice, but my point is that if one wants to get technical this is the technically correct thing to do.

[zeg]

Originally Posted by bplewis24

IMO, if the OP tried to dissuade the golfer from taking his shot before he took the shot, he was the "aggressor" for good reason: he was trying to prevent it from happening.  That type of "aggression" is justified.  How you do it is still delicate, but he absolutely should have tried to flag the guy down and prevent him from taking the shot.  Not to the point that there is a heated exchange, but sometimes those things can't be helped.  If the other guy is clueless enough or enough of a douchbag to take a divot on the green, he might also be the type to escalate the situation beyond civility.

Agree. You should also point out that the rules do not permit a shot to be played from another green, so you are required to take "relief."

However, you've got to be tactful when trying to get the guy to stop. Give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he's simply not aware of the rule. If he escalates things, let it go and report it to the clubhouse.

[camper6]

Originally Posted by zeg

I would not have confronted him. Just call the clubhouse and let them deal with it. It doesn't matter whether you're twice his size or not, getting into "heated discussions" on the course is not cool. It's not your place to police this, beyond trying to stop it in the first place.

As for the divot (I assume you mean the hole, not the removed turf) being in your line, unless the grounds crew marked it as ground under repair, you do not get relief. If the removed turf were on your line, if it's detached and not placed back in its hole, then it's a loose impediment and may be removed. Otherwise, you play it as it lies.

I like your post.  Just call the clubhouse.  That's the proper approach.

Having said that.  I would have confronted him. I simply couldn't have resisted size or no size.  It's one of those things in life where you just let your temper take over and let the chips fall where they may.  But don't get me wrong.  I don't recommend it to others.

[wolfsburg2]

I am sort of a stickler but I wouldn't self assess a penalty for moving my line, I'd just move my line away from the divot.

[camper6]

Originally Posted by ApocG10

I took two putter heads of relief, no closer to the hole, to get out of the way of a ~2 inch divot. What the hell was I supposed to do, try to putt through the divot, then chip it out when the ball gets stuck in it? Be real;istic. I didnt know the call, took relief and a penalty stroke, played on, and didnt turn in the card because I truly didnt know what I should have done relief/penalty wise.

Don't try to explain.

It upset you and you did the best you could under the circumstances.

The guy would have lambasted you and would have called you on it for 'ratting' on him if you didn't confront him when he was kicked off the course.

Why do people get so passionate about what they consider right and wrong?

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[TourSpoon]

I would have called the clubhouse in both circumstances. One to report the guy, and then Two to ask the "committee" how to proceed (ie declare it ground under repair for an abnormal situation). In absence of the second call I would have taken relief with penalty with the understanding that I would ask at the first opportunity if I could consider that ground under repair (wouldn't equity come into play as the previous players did not have to putt through a trench created during the round?). Had this been an actual US Open, I would have waited for the rules official who would most likely asked for a repair, or granted relief. At the local course level, I can't see any greens keeper who would want you to play through this condition as to further aggravate the damage that was done.

I am curious to hear from Fourputt. He has seen quite a bit as a rules official.

[Hoganwoods]

It's hilarious that people think we should assume he might not know he's not suppose to hit a shot from the green.  If he doesn't know that, he shouldn't be playing.  People should at least make an effort to learn the basic rules and etiquette of a game before going out on a 20k green and ripping it up.  Not saying a fight should break out, but I'm glad someone tried to stop it.

PS: not sure who changed my avatar, but it's awesome ! :P

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by TourSpoon

I would have called the clubhouse in both circumstances. One to report the guy, and then Two to ask the "committee" how to proceed (ie declare it ground under repair for an abnormal situation). In absence of the second call I would have taken relief with penalty with the understanding that I would ask at the first opportunity if I could consider that ground under repair (wouldn't equity come into play as the previous players did not have to putt through a trench created during the round?). Had this been an actual US Open, I would have waited for the rules official who would most likely asked for a repair, or granted relief. At the local course level, I can't see any greens keeper who would want you to play through this condition as to further aggravate the damage that was done.

I am curious to hear from Fourputt. He has seen quite a bit as a rules official.

Is there a precedent for playing 2 balls?  One played from the original spot, maybe aiming outside the line of the hole and hoping to still 2-putt, and another by way of taking relief as GUR, and then asking the clubhouse later if that could be treated as GUR?  Or would that constitute some level of "cheating" by figuring out the speed needed to execute the putt?

Brandon

[zeg]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoganwoods

It's hilarious that people think we should assume he might not know he's not suppose to hit a shot from the green.  If he doesn't know that, he shouldn't be playing.

I think it's hilarious that people assume new golfers would automatically know that the green is subject to different rules than the rest of the well-manicured grass that they're allowed to take divots out of.

I think it's sad that they'd suggest someone who doesn't yet know the details of etiquette should not be playing. Apparently those of us who weren't brought up on the golf course don't belong there until we magically acquire that knowledge.

Look, there's no sense assuming ill will before you know anything. Playing an honest shot off of a green is not something we should do (barring unusual situations where a chip shot is appropriate), but at the same time it's not obviously destructive behavior. It's different from someone hacking holes in the green just for kicks (which I've seen at a practice green once). Yes, you ought to try to stop it before it happens, but you can do that without being a jerk about it. This gives you a chance to educate him if he simply doesn't yet know the rule/etiquette.

To turn it around, what possible benefit do you get by assuming he's intentionally destructive and treating him like a jerk from the outset? The only difference I see is that you'll probably make a fool of yourself calling another golfer names on the course.

Quote:

Is there a precedent for playing 2 balls?  One played from the original spot, maybe aiming outside the line of the hole and hoping to still 2-putt, and another by way of taking relief as GUR, and then asking the clubhouse later if that could be treated as GUR?  Or would that constitute some level of "cheating" by figuring out the speed needed to execute the putt?

Yes, in stroke play anyway, if you're unsure how to proceed and obtaining a ruling is impractical, you can play two balls. I think you have to declare in advance which one you would like to use (in case both methods are legal). You then look it up or obtain a ruling after the round and use the appropriate score.

[newtogolf]

Zeg is dead on, first few times I played this game I didn't know there were different rules on the green....play it as it lies was the only rule I knew then.  I played with friends that did know the rules so I'd have never done what the guy in the OP did.

Seems the industry has a major problem.  Everyone talks about wanting to attract more people to the sport but they expect these newbies will dress properly, know all the rules and play fast enough to satisfy the ones already playing...doesn't seem possible.

Originally Posted by zeg

I think it's hilarious that people assume new golfers would automatically know that the green is subject to different rules than the rest of the well-manicured grass that they're allowed to take divots out of.

I think it's sad that they'd suggest someone who doesn't yet know the details of etiquette should not be playing. Apparently those of us who weren't brought up on the golf course don't belong there until we magically acquire that knowledge.