To Golfers Who Score in the 70s - What's Your Story?

[iacas]

2 hours ago, Groucho Valentine said:

It wasnt bad advice. Its just not your advice. 

No. It’s actually bad advice for the vast majority of people.

You are probably wrong here.

And that’s enough arguing about it in this topic.

[GolfLug]

Hit 13 GIRs yesterday at my CC. Could not get up and down from bunkers or nGIRs at all - ended up 2-putting all 5 times when I did not hit green. 3 putted 3 times. Shot a season best 76 (par 70). Greens have been aerated so ball held wobbly lines all day. 

In comparison, I usually hit 8-9 GIRs and get up and down at least 2-3 times and 3 putt once or at twice at my CC. Scores have ranged from 83 to 79 in the last 6 rounds. 

So yeah, where can I buy me some more GIRs??  

Edited September 25, 2017 by GolfLug

[SG11118]

Is there a typical rule of thumb for how much further ionomer covered golf balls travel than urethane covered balls?  If this thread is saying the easiest way to become a 70 shooter is to improve your full swing, and not the short game, would it also make sense for more golfers to bench the urethane balls and go to ionomer coated ones for the same reasons? 

[GolfLug]

15 minutes ago, SG11118 said:

Is there a typical rule of thumb for how much further ionomer covered golf balls travel than urethane covered balls?  If this thread is saying the easiest way to become a 70 shooter is to improve your full swing, and not the short game, would it also make sense for more golfers to bench the urethane balls and go to ionomer coated ones for the same reasons? 

Sorry, I don't understand how that would help. Would you please explain how so?

[SG11118]

5 minutes ago, GolfLug said:

Sorry, I don't understand how that would help. Would you please explain how so?

A decent amount of the rationale for improving the full swing vs. improving the short game is that if you can hit the ball further, you'll be closer to the green, thereby improving your GIR percentage.  Say an Ionomer covered ball travels 3% further on your drives (with less sidespin), a 250 yard urethane drive now travels 257.5 yards, and you are almost a club closer to the green.  The main benefit to the urethane coated balls is extra control spin control around the greens.  Most people are arguing in this thread that players should be practicing their full swing more than their short game to improve faster.  Should they also be using a ball that travels further off the tee (at the expense to a little control around the greens)? 

[GolfLug]

3 minutes ago, SG11118 said:

A decent amount of the rationale for improving the full swing vs. improving the short game is that if you can hit the ball further, you'll be closer to the green, thereby improving your GIR percentage.  Say an Ionomer covered ball travels 3% further on your drives (with less sidespin), a 250 yard urethane drive now travels 257.5 yards, and you are almost a club closer to the green.  The main benefit to the urethane coated balls is extra control spin control around the greens.  Most people are arguing in this thread that players should be practicing their full swing more than their short game to improve faster.  Should they also be using a ball that travels further off the tee (at the expense to a little control around the greens)? 

I wasn't aware. But yeah, I am sure there is a sweet spot for distance vs. feel for each level of player. Good thing is that is one of the easiest thing to experiment with. 

[iacas]

45 minutes ago, SG11118 said:

Is there a typical rule of thumb for how much further ionomer covered golf balls travel than urethane covered balls?  If this thread is saying the easiest way to become a 70 shooter is to improve your full swing, and not the short game, would it also make sense for more golfers to bench the urethane balls and go to ionomer coated ones for the same reasons? 

They don't go that much further.

11 minutes ago, SG11118 said:

A decent amount of the rationale for improving the full swing vs. improving the short game is that if you can hit the ball further

I disagree, and I don't think many people are really saying that. Improving your full swing means much more than just hitting it further.

And the difference between the two balls off the tee is almost negligible.

[klineka]

5 hours ago, GolfLug said:

Hit 13 GIRs yesterday at my CC. Could not get up and down from bunkers or nGIRs at all - ended up 2-putting all 5 times when I did not hit green. 3 putted 3 times. Shot a season best 76 (par 70). Greens have been aerated so ball held wobbly lines all day. 

In comparison, I usually hit 8-9 GIRs and get up and down at least 2-3 times and 3 putt once or at twice at my CC. Scores have ranged from 83 to 79 in the last 6 rounds. 

So yeah, where can I buy me some more GIRs??  

Similar story to me. I had 12/18 GIR, had the best "off the tee" strokes gained (0.89 gained) round for me since I started GameGolf, yet I had 4 double bogies, needed 35 putts and still broke 80 with a 79.

I flubbed multiple chip shots inside of 60 yards. missed the green entirely with those shots. and still broke 80.

I three putted 3 times and still broke 80.

I was 1.1 strokes lost on putting and 1.2 strokes lost on my short game compared to my previous 5 rounds, but was .7 better on approach shots, and 1.9 better on tee shots and still shot well.

You can still score with a mediocre or below average short game.

What really helped me was doubling the percentage of time I got on the green from greater than 150+ yards. Now obviously that was an outlier round for my approach of that distance based on my current skill level, but still helps prove the point.

Full swing matters.

[BeardedBearMan]

On 9/25/2017 at 9:54 PM, klineka said:

Similar story to me. I had 12/18 GIR, had the best "off the tee" strokes gained (0.89 gained) round for me since I started GameGolf, yet I had 4 double bogies, needed 35 putts and still broke 80 with a 79.

I flubbed multiple chip shots inside of 60 yards. missed the green entirely with those shots. and still broke 80.

I three putted 3 times and still broke 80.

I was 1.1 strokes lost on putting and 1.2 strokes lost on my short game compared to my previous 5 rounds, but was .7 better on approach shots, and 1.9 better on tee shots and still shot well.

You can still score with a mediocre or below average short game.

What really helped me was doubling the percentage of time I got on the green from greater than 150+ yards. Now obviously that was an outlier round for my approach of that distance based on my current skill level, but still helps prove the point.

Full swing matters.

Can I ask what the avg. percentage of time you get on the green (within 15 yds) from greater than 100+ yards is? I'm a 12.9hcp on game golf but only get it within 15 yds from outside 100 yards 27% of the time...that's gotta be pretty poor?

[DaveP043]

6 minutes ago, BeardedBearMan said:

Can I ask what the avg. percentage of time you get on the green (within 15 yds) from greater than 100+ yards is? I'm a 12.9hcp on game golf but only get it within 15 yds from outside 100 yards 27% of the time...that's gotta be pretty poor?

You might want to look at this in more detail.  If most of these shots are from 100 to 120 yards, for instance, 27% seems like it could use some improvement.  On the other hand, if most of the shots you've tracked are outside of 150, 27% might not be too bad.  Don't take my examples as gospel, I'm not sure what kind of percentages you should be working towards, but a little more detail might help the evaluation process.  The quality of your "misses" is another factor to look at.  If most of your misses are near the green, and not in a trouble spot like a bunker, that's not so bad.  If a lot of your misses are 30 or 40 yards away, or in hazards or bunkers, that needs to be improved.

[klineka]

1 hour ago, BeardedBearMan said:

Can I ask what the avg. percentage of time you get on the green (within 15 yds) from greater than 100+ yards is? I'm a 12.9hcp on game golf but only get it within 15 yds from outside 100 yards 27% of the time...that's gotta be pretty poor?

For strictly outside 100 yards, I get 36% within 15 yards. Most of my misses are short (35%) and right (20%). 

Here are my numbers for approaching the green from multiple distances. Obviously, as expected, my % on target decreases as the distance increases.

 

Here are the rest of my numbers if you want to compare. I'm definitely not a 4.4 Handicap, closer to 10 overall, but started lessons about the same time I got GameGolf so these have been some of my best rounds of the year. Also, I will give you a follow on GG if you link your username to your SandTrap profile.

[BeardedBearMan]

1 hour ago, klineka said:

For strictly outside 100 yards, I get 36% within 15 yards. Most of my misses are short (35%) and right (20%). 

Here are my numbers for approaching the green from multiple distances. Obviously, as expected, my % on target decreases as the distance increases.

 

Here are the rest of my numbers if you want to compare. I'm definitely not a 4.4 Handicap, closer to 10 overall, but started lessons about the same time I got GameGolf so these have been some of my best rounds of the year. Also, I will give you a follow on GG if you link your username to your SandTrap profile.

 

Thanks - I've just added my Game Golf handle.

Really appreciate you sharing those stats, interesting to see how mine compare to a 10 hcp (I'm at a 15 atm) as I strive to score in the 70s for the first time. I've only started taking golf a bit more seriously this year so I'm looking forward to improving over the coming months, and seeing how better golfers compare under different categories really helps me hone in on which areas I should be working on.

This is probably due to me having only recorded 3 rounds so far in game golf, but my Approach stats look pretty wonky - definitely a lot of work to be done with my GW, PW, and 9i:

For what it's worth - here are my other stats:

So, obviously my whole game could use some help (with putting being my best skill), but especially I think scrambling and GIR need to improve, both of which would be helped by being better off the tee.

Something interesting I've noticed as well is that - probably due to my poor driving - I score best on par 3s, then par 4s, and then par 5s. I imagine that's gotta be exactly opposite to most golfers:

 

[klineka]

@BeardedBearMan

My breakdown by hole.

Par 3 0.42 58% pars, 42% bogeys

Par 4 0.51 7% birdies, 45% pars, 38% bogeys, 10% double bogeys

Par 5 -0.14 3% eagles, 28% birdies, 52% pars, 14% bogeys, 3% double bogeys

Par 5s are obviously where I score the best, mainly because almost every par 5, I leave myself less than 100 yards in for my 3rd shot, often times I am less than 50 yds for my 3rd, so my chances of getting GIR are very high (Inside 100 yds, I get 79% within 15 yards on all holes not just par 5s)

Although I am very surprised to see for my 25-50 yd shot, I only get 55% within 5 yds. 0-25 yds that is 96%, 50-75yds is 87%, and 75-100 yds is 75%, so clearly a weakness for me is the 25-50 yd shot. 

Looking at your profile, you have plenty of distance to be able to score on par 5s. What are you doing that is causing so many double and triples on par 5s? Hitting OB off the tee, or flubbing the 2nd shot so you still have like 200+ for your 3rd shot?

Edited October 11, 2017 by klineka

[Yukari]

As many have said, GIR is the king in shooting in the 70's.  When I hit 50% or more GIR, I am in the 70's.  If I am struggling with GIR (< 30%), forget it.  If my GIR is suffering but have a great short game, I am in the low 80's in general.

But without a good long game, it's a struggle to shoot in the 70's.

[klineka]

13 minutes ago, Yukari said:

As many have said, GIR is the king in shooting in the 70's.  When I hit 50% or more GIR, I am in the 70's.  If I am struggling with GIR (< 30%), forget it.  If my GIR is suffering but have a great short game, I am in the low 80's in general.

But without a good long game, it's a struggle to shoot in the 70's.

I couldnt agree more. Out of my last 7 rounds, I have broken 80 on 5 of those rounds. GIR % breaking 80 has been 83,67,50,50, 44. On the 2 rounds where I didnt break 80, GIR % was 39 and 22. 

Edited October 11, 2017 by klineka

[BeardedBearMan]

@klineka

Yea, distance isn't the issue at all (avg. drive is 267 yds according to game golf), it's just my driving gets very erratic and I think on par 5s I maybe psych myself out off the tee thinking of putting me in a position to reach the green in two or something. I think the reality is I've only got 4 rounds on my profile thus far and having played short courses I've only actually recorded 5 par 5s:

1) Par 5, 472 yds: Driver off the tee - sliced right into woods and lost ball - Score: 7

2) Par 5, 480 yds: Driver off the tee - came off the bottom of the club to 195 yds - Score: 7 (3-putt)

3) Par 5, 442 yds: Driver off the tee - sliced right into woods and had to punch out - Score: 7

4) Par 5, 492 yds: 3-Wood off the tee - solid shot (250 yds) but didn't have an angle to the green due to overhanging branch so had to punch out - Score: 5.

5) Par 5, 562 yds: Driver off the tee - sliced right into O.B. - Score 8

 

The only hole I didn't take driver off the tee I parred! Guess I gotta hit the driving range and practice that driving to get into scoring positions without stupid mistakes more often.

[BallMarker]

I was shooting in the lower to mid 80s about 3 years ago. Then, my son got old enough, and good enough, to challenge me. 

Being challenged is a great motivator.

 

I can't beat my 17 year old son anymore. But I can shoot anywhere from 75 - 83. Hate it when I don't break 80.

On 10/11/2017 at 10:59 AM, Yukari said:

As many have said, GIR is the king in shooting in the 70's.  When I hit 50% or more GIR, I am in the 70's.  If I am struggling with GIR (< 30%), forget it.  If my GIR is suffering but have a great short game, I am in the low 80's in general.

But without a good long game, it's a struggle to shoot in the 70's.

Yup.

Once I hit every green in regulation, except on the three par 3s. I shot my lowest score that day, a 74....could have easily shot even that day.

Hitting the fairway helps, too.

[Michael B]

1) How long did it take to break 70? If it took you 2 years, was that 2 years from the first time you picked up a golf club, or did you just play around for the first year and then take the second year seriously?

I started playing at 12 years old at a public nine hole executive course. I played mostly with a friend whose father was a scratch golfer when he was in his 20s. I played a single year of JV golf when I was 17, when I was coming off knee surgery and couldn't quite yet make it back to playing varsity tennis. At that time, during my matches (we only played nine holes), I was shooting 43-49, playing by every rule. Over the next year or two, my handicap dropped to around a 14, where it stayed for all of college and seven years of graduate school, due to playing enough to maintain but not improve. I had shot in the low 80sa number of times during those years, even getting a few scores of 80, but didn't have the length to really get enough greens in regulation to break 80. It was after graduate school, when I got a job (30 years old) and was settled in a particular location that I knew i needed to totally change my swing to get more distance (as my average drives were consistently dead straight, but maxed out not much more than 200 yards). I realized that I had a reverse pivot and I took a few lessons a year over the next few years to get rid of that reverse pivot. That first season when taking lessons to totally redo my swing, at 30-31 years old, I was shooting in the 90s. The next year, age 31-32, I was in the high 80s. Finally, by the third year after deciding to fill rework my swing (age 32-33), I finally got back to the scores I was shooting before I made the swing change, low to mid 80s. Then, the next year, it happened (age 33-34), those years paid off and that's was the summer I started to regularly break 80, in the high 70s. So it took about 22 years. I am now (at age 39) about a 6 handicap and heading, it seems, to scratch (lowest around ever was a +1, 73).

I am still not a long hitter (230-250 yard drives), but the REAL key to breaking 80 is a great short game. Unless you're hitting 15/18 greens in regulation, which is an insanely high percentage, as 12/18 greens on regulation is a pretty darn good round for an amateur, you need to get up and down a bunch. 

 

2) What methods did you follow? Did you pick and choose from different instructors, books, DVDs, or even just watching tips on the golf channel? Did you follow a single set method/book/DVD/instructor and follow it like it was your bible?

I take about three 30 minute lessons a year and will watch Golf Channel for random tips.

 

3) What does it take to score in the 70s consistently (in your opinion of course)?

--Enough distance to get to all par fours with mid irons or shorter for approach shots.

--great short game