2012 Ryder Cup Discussion Thread

[MSchott]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Golfer

Phil is a classy guy and my favorite golfer.. that being said his history isn't good in the Cup and he is getting older...sadly a new broom sweeps clean - it is time for new blood

Uh, Phil and Bradley picked up 3 points this week. He was one of the best players this week and qualified for the team based on points. In 2 years we'll see if someone is more qualified but for now I'm happy he's on the team.

[MSchott]

Originally Posted by Pablo68

Go back and look at Rose's reaction when Phil applauded him. Rose's look said one thing; 'I own you'.

One of the dumbest things you can do IMO during any head to head sport. There's plenty of time to applaud the shots AFTER the match; not during it when you give the opponent motivation and possibly show admiration/fear of him.

Goofy Phil still being goofy.............'golly gee; I missed. Oh darn.....maybe next time.'

That's foolish. I thought Rose's reaction was classy as appreciative as well. I see absolutely nothing wrong with Phil's reaction. Golf is about hitting the shots and nothing Phil did motivated Rose. If you think he's complacent then you don't know what makes a world class golfer or athlete in general.

[jamo]

From the Freakonomics writers: http://www.freakonomics.com/2012/10/01/the-miracle-at-medinah/ Under the assumption that the 12 matches were even, the likelihood of Europe winning was 19%. Taking into account that most people believed that the Americans had a stronger team, that drops even lower.

[phan52]

Going forward, the Captain can't be a player who is still playing on the regular Tour. He has to be retired or playing exclusively on the Senior Tour so that he can really be a Captain and not ever defer to a player. Love is a peer and he just couldn't pull the trigger, particularly when it came to Mickelson-Bradley and Woods-Stricker.

Johnny Miller, anybody?

[Motley01]

Wow I'm still trying to gather what happened yesterday.

All those lipped putts the Europeans had on Friday and Saturday, then thats what happened to the US team.

I think Stricker and Furyke got tired. Davis should have picked Hunter Mahahn, just for the fact that he wanted revenge.

Who to blame? I don't know, but them damn Europeans know how to turn it on in the Ryder Cup.

[Mr. Desmond]

Originally Posted by MSchott

C'mon, what did you expect Phil to do? Rose made 2 absolutely great pressure putts to birdie two of the toughest holes on the course. Phil applauded this and showed class. Do you think he wanted to lose?

I said it's about attitude.

You're in a match. You turn and walk to the next hole.

[Elvisliveson]

Originally Posted by Mr. Desmond

I said it's about attitude.

You're in a match. You turn and walk to the next hole.

I had extensive match play experience in both high school and college. This idea that you are supposed to display some sort of frosty attitude is bogus. If anything, after your opponent pulls a shot out of his arse, you should act gracious like it didn't bother you at all. Acting in a standoffish manner after something like that happens only serves to show your opponent he's getting to you.

Furthermore, displaying an adversarial attitude will not only give your opponents extra motivation to beat you but cause them to keep their guard up. Best thing to do is make them think you are a happy go lucky guy and lull them into sleep. Then, when you ask them to make the 2 1/2 footer late in the match it'll be like a shock to their system and really rattle their cage.

[papswing]

I thought it was a great match, I honestly thought we were going to get humped after the second day and then Ian Pouter steps up, certainly not one of our better players, but he fired the whole team into believing we could win, from our point of view is was a terrific win under very tough conditions, it was a great advert for Golf.

[Golf Man]

Originally Posted by Elvisliveson

I blame 3)Furyk - has become an epic choker 2)Stricker - just out and out sucks when his putter can't bail him out and 1)Love-I blame him the most since he chose those two "veterans" over youngsters like Fowler (who has won 2 tournaments in the last year beating Rory Mac head to head each time) and Hunter Mahan (who would have relished a chance for redemption and made a good partner for Tiger).

Those people blaming Tiger or Phil are most likely those partisan to the other.

3 - Furyk - obviously has problems with his putting on the closing stretches, but is still very very hard to beat. Also Love already had 4 rookies on the team would have wanted experience.

2 Stricker - he was picked for two reasons (apart from the fact that he was just outside the automatic picks) - his putting and to partner Woods. Love had teh course set up for it to become a putting competition and on this basis his pick made sense

1. Love - again US were 10-6 up after Day 2 so I'm really not sure that you can blame his picks. Would Fowler and Mahan have had the US further ahead - I really doubt it. Also Love picked on form (Fowler and Mahan has great early season form but had really done nothing for the last couple of months) - its hard to argue with that reasoning. I think he could have altered the singles order slightly though. Having Bubba out first was a bit predictable and in hindsight I'm not sure his form was as good as it seemed - Donald was the perfect guy to play against him - the steadiest player on the European team - he was always going to be fairways and greens all day, and given that he was hitting in first teh whole time he was putting Watson under pressure straight away. Personally I would have had Tiger out first - he had been playing the back 9 exceptionally well and has a great record in Singles (in stark contrast to his record in fourballs/foursomes). Stricker was obviously playing the worst of all of the US team and he could have done two things => put him as far back as possible and hope he wasn't needed (given that you had all your strength ahead of him) or put him in the middle of the order, between a couple of form players - I don't think what he did was wrong in this regard

I don't think you can really lay the blame on any of the US team - something as tight as this and you can almost look at any hole and say that would have changed it. Personally I think the US were spent on Sunday and Europe came completely into form - beauty of teh Ryder Cup

[Elvisliveson]

Originally Posted by Golf Man

3 - Furyk - obviously has problems with his putting on the closing stretches, but is still very very hard to beat. Also Love already had 4 rookies on the team would have wanted experience.

2 Stricker - he was picked for two reasons (apart from the fact that he was just outside the automatic picks) - his putting and to partner Woods. Love had teh course set up for it to become a putting competition and on this basis his pick made sense

3 - Yeah, only Fowler and Mahan have already played in the Ryder Cup , they wouldn't have been additional rookies, lol. And Mahan would have been motivated to atone for his previous experience, while Fowler,s two wins in the last year both came going head to head with World No.1 Rory Mac.

2 - Mahan and Tiger are buds who share the same instructor. They play practice rounds together and know each other's games and swings.The Woods and Stricker pairing had fizzled out at the last president's Cup where they went 0-2. Also, the course was set up long and both Mahan and Fowler are longer off the tee than Furk or Stricker.

[Monte the Bear]

There are a couple of other fundamental things that the Europeans had going for them that I don't think the US did.

1. The Europeans had fun. They all said it was a great time, but more than that, that it was a huge learning experience to be part of. I'm not sure the US team see's it that way. It's like the entire weight is just too much for the team. For me, the best US player was Duffner, who seemed to take it all pretty relaxed, hit his ball, walked to where it landed and hit it again. He seemed to take it all in his stride, whereas other seemed to let the Sunday get to them. Fundamentally, I think this means that the US team is scared of losing, whereas the European team isn't.

2. The back-room team. Love did all he could and his choices for assistants were all top-drawer, except for one thing. There were no team builders in amongst them. Jordan was an epic individual player, probably the best ever, but he was not a manager or a coach of a team that was massively successful. Whereas Olazabal had Pep Guardiola in his ranks (you Americans may need to look him up). There ins't a more sought-after coach / manager in World Football right now than PG, and he was with Olazabal all week. You can be sure he was talking to all of the back-room staff about keeping in the moment.

[mazzamouth]

Originally Posted by JerseyThursday

Thanks for pulling a statistic out of thin air.

Yep no problem... but it is true... thats why the managers get fired and not the players...? think about it...

I have no problem with Phil giving Rose a a thumbs up, Phil is a classy guy.

[k-troop]

Originally Posted by Monte the Bear

There are a couple of other fundamental things that the Europeans had going for them that I don't think the US did.

1. The Europeans had fun. They all said it was a great time, but more than that, that it was a huge learning experience to be part of. I'm not sure the US team see's it that way. It's like the entire weight is just too much for the team. For me, the best US player was Duffner, who seemed to take it all pretty relaxed, hit his ball, walked to where it landed and hit it again. He seemed to take it all in his stride, whereas other seemed to let the Sunday get to them. Fundamentally, I think this means that the US team is scared of losing, whereas the European team isn't.

Of course they had fun.  They won 8 points on Sunday and completed the biggest comeback in RC history by an away team.  The Euros didn't look like they were having too much fun Friday and Saturday, if I recall, whereas the Americans looked pretty damn happy.

[Pablo68]

Originally Posted by MSchott

That's foolish. I thought Rose's reaction was classy as appreciative as well. I see absolutely nothing wrong with Phil's reaction. Golf is about hitting the shots and nothing Phil did motivated Rose. If you think he's complacent then you don't know what makes a world class golfer or athlete in general.

I didn't say Phil was complacent.........I said he had no business giving Rose credit for those shots DURING the match. As Mr. Desmond stated 'You turn and walk to the next hole'.

THAT attitude right there lost us that match and the Cup. Nicklaus/Palmer/Watson/Hogan/etc......would have all just turned and went about the business of winning; NOT making sure the other guy knew he hit a great shot.

Sunday Nassau...............okay. Ryder Cup.............NFW.

[ScouseJohnny]

Originally Posted by Pablo68

THAT attitude right there lost us that match and the Cup. Nicklaus.............would have all just turned and went about the business of winning;

So was Jack wrong to give Tony Jacklin that 2 foot gimme on the 18th green at Royal Birkdale, back in 1969?

[Mr. Desmond]

Originally Posted by Elvisliveson

I had extensive match play experience in both high school and college. This idea that you are supposed to display some sort of frosty attitude is bogus. If anything, after your opponent pulls a shot out of his arse, you should act gracious like it didn't bother you at all. Acting in a standoffish manner after something like that happens only serves to show your opponent he's getting to you.

Furthermore, displaying an adversarial attitude will not only give your opponents extra motivation to beat you but cause them to keep their guard up. Best thing to do is make them think you are a happy go lucky guy and lull them into sleep. Then, when you ask them to make the 2 1/2 footer late in the match it'll be like a shock to their system and really rattle their cage.

Did I say act frostily? No

Did I say act like an adversary? No.

I'd say you're right. It would be foolish to be icy and formal. I neglected detail. If my opponent looks at me, I may smile as if I expected him to drain it. But if he makes no eye contact, am I supposed to hang around? I don't think so. You turn nonchalantly and casually walk to the next hole. Right?''

From yahoosports:

"Mickelson, so exuberant in the moment, gave Rose a hearty applause and thumbs-up on the way to the 18th tee."

[Golf Man]

Originally Posted by Elvisliveson

3 - Yeah, only Fowler and Mahan have already played in the Ryder Cup, they wouldn't have been additional rookies, lol. And Mahan would have been motivated to atone for his previous experience, while Fowler,s two wins in the last year both came going head to head with World No.1 Rory Mac.

2 - Mahan and Tiger are buds who share the same instructor. They play practice rounds together and know each other's games and swings.The Woods and Stricker pairing had fizzled out at the last president's Cup where they went 0-2. Also, the course was set up long and both Mahan and Fowler are longer off the tee than Furk or Stricke

3. Try reading what I posted - I said Love would want experience, not that Fowler and Mahan were rookies. Mahan had two appearances (same as Stricker I think ) - Furyk has huge experience and is seen as incredibly difficult to beat - think Montgomerie said he has teh hardest opponent he had played. I'm not saying that Love was right, but I can see where he was coming from. Mahan in particu;ar was unlucky. BTW while Fowler was pretty much head to head with McIlroy at teh Wells Fargo he really wasn't in Korea - Fowler was 10 shots ahead of him going into the last round. And that was a year ago - not really relevant. You are also ignoring the most important point - Fowler and Mahan had shown no form for 3/4 months - thats the real reason they weren't picked

2. Woods/Mahan - while I take the point that maybe Woods/Stricker had fizzled out, I'll take what you say about Woods and Mahan at face value - that said I'm pretty sure that they weren't paired together at the Presidents Cup - surely if they were such a natural pairing they would have played together there (BTW if you are using form in the Presidents Cup as a point of reference didn't Furyk win all his games at the last one??)

Length wasn't really a concern at Medinah - sure the course was relatively long but with the rough cut back the way it was it really all came down to putting - Donald and Poulter for example aren't exactly long and they did just fine

[Elvisliveson]

Originally Posted by Mr. Desmond

Did I say act frostily? No

Did I say act like an adversary? No.

I'd say you're right. It would be foolish to be icy and formal. I neglected detail. If my opponent looks at me, I may smile as if I expected him to drain it. But if he makes no eye contact, am I supposed to hang around? I don't think so. You turn nonchalantly and casually walk to the next hole. Right?

Let's agree to disagree. All I can say is I actually played in those type of settings at a pretty high level (not afternoon league play at some muni) and see absolutely nothing wrong with complimenting your opponent for a good shot; it could actually work in your favor as I pointed it in my previous post. This is not a debate club, it's a forum to share opinions and I gave you one bourne out of actual experience.  But, I know you have a penchant for beating things to death, so I state right now this will be my last post on this.