Jack Nicklaus Endorses Romney, Mitt calls Jack “Greatest athlete of the 20th century.”

[zipazoid]

  newtogolf said:

Originally Posted by newtogolf

LOL zippy you're a funny guy sometimes.  Sorry my point was too abstract for you to comprehend.  I was simply pointing out the double standard the dems have with regards to releasing personal documents.  I wasn't bringing his birth nation into question, just highlighting the double standard that when a dem says something is true, documented proof isn't required, but with Romney they want proof.

I guess you also believe Obama was transparent, and didn't do all those behind close door deals he accused the GOP doing during GW's years too.

Yeah I do go for humor at times. This wasn't one of them.

So...to you it's quid pro quo of proving citizenship to releasing tax returns, eh? I guess that's what you were referring to in terms of documented proof.

Dude, he was born in Hawaii. He produced both the short & long form. End of discussion.

What is still in discussion is why Romney doesn't release his tax returns save 2011 & I believe one other year. This is standard practice, for a candidate to release multiple years of returns. Why won't Romney? What's so special about him versus anyone else who has ever run for the presidency? What's he hiding?

These are valid questions, unlike the Birther talk, which is nothing but fringe tinfoil-hat tripe.

See, this is a standard practice of the far right - when the topic becomes, in this case, Romney's tax returns, their response is, "Well, there's still people who don't believe Obama is an American. What about that?" Never mind the fact that he has proven it. And never mind, well, those people. Cuz they're idiots.

There is no double standard. There's rational and irrational.

[David in FL]

  Subaroo said:

My balls can report something from the Bureau of Labor Statistics and it would still be credible.   Republicans, just because you only listen to people that agree with you while not looking at the facts, doesn't mean the rest of us operate the same way.  How do you still function in this world? Did you see what he just did up there?  Sometimes it is appropriate to call someone a moron.

You continue to demonstrate that you're incapable of debating your viewpoint without resorting to childish insults...... I'll move along and continue my discussion with the grown ups.

[newtogolf]

I personally don't care where he was born, but for the sake of integrity, the long form he provided was a fake, which he admitted to, saying that he provided it to shut Trump up.

As for Romney, he's disclosed what's required by law to run for President.  Let's be real, we know the guy made boat loads of money and probably used every tax law available to minimize his tax bill, as any smart business person would.  I'm sure Obama and Biden do the same thing.  You and I both know all the democrats want is a document to throw out there to show everyone how rich he is, because, well the rich are evil.

Let's not discuss that he donated over $4M to charity and that despite leveraging all the tax laws to his benefit he still paid more in taxes than Obama and Biden made combined.  The rich you are looking to take down (thoses making over $250,000) contribute 80% of the total income tax revenue this country collects.  Seems like they are paying their share, no?

I don't like Romney, but how can anyone in good conscience vote Obama back in for another 4 years after what he's done to this country?  I gave Obama his shot 4 years ago when the GOP put Sarah Palin up as V.P.  and made a mockery of the party.  I won't say Obama was as bad as GW, but Jimmy Carter will sleep easy knowing that both GW and Obama sucked worse than him as President, which is a really sad statement.

Believe me, I wish there was someone better to vote for, is Mickey Mouse running this year?

  zipazoid said:

Originally Posted by zipazoid

Yeah I do go for humor at times. This wasn't one of them.

So...to you it's quid pro quo of proving citizenship to releasing tax returns, eh? I guess that's what you were referring to in terms of documented proof.

Dude, he was born in Hawaii. He produced both the short & long form. End of discussion.

What is still in discussion is why Romney doesn't release his tax returns save 2011 & I believe one other year. This is standard practice, for a candidate to release multiple years of returns. Why won't Romney? What's so special about him versus anyone else who has ever run for the presidency? What's he hiding?

These are valid questions, unlike the Birther talk, which is nothing but fringe tinfoil-hat tripe.

See, this is a standard practice of the far right - when the topic becomes, in this case, Romney's tax returns, their response is, "Well, there's still people who don't believe Obama is an American. What about that?" Never mind the fact that he has, and never mind, well, those people. Cuz they're idiots.

[x129]

Nope the long form wasn't a fake.  When ever you see a crazy thing like that you should google it. See http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthers/birthcertificate.asp for a longer than you want discussion of the topic.

Yes Romney has release by law what is required (nothing as far as I know).  He donated more than Biden and Obama. He also made more than both combined. Coincidence? I also don't view religious donations as charity. YMMV.  I have no problem with him abusing the tax code or having swiss bank accounts. Both are legit and legal. However I have never heard a reason not to reason 10 years of tax returns like every other politician does. You can decide if a guy with a swiss bank account not releasing returns for the one year (he showed McCain the rest) when a Swiss bank account amnesty was in effect is paranoid or reasonable.

Are the wealthy paying there share? Depend on what you mean by "fair share". Given our huge deficients you could argue no one pays their fair share.  The top 1% pay 17% of the tax is that fair?  Seems like a lot right? What if I told you the top 1% had 21% of the income. Then aren't the rich underpaying by ~20%? Make it all taxes instead of income taxes and this whole thing changes also and you can learn the average person making 50k/year paid a higher percentage of income than Mitt did. I am sure some people consider that fair. Of course no one wants to hear the  unpleasant truth. The top 1% need to pay higher taxes. But so do the next 60% (the rest are retired or working min wage jobs). We couldn't afford the bush cuts in the 2000's and we still can't.

What has Obama done for our country? Depends on your view point. If your a conservative you think trillion dollar deficits (ignore that 2009 bush budget that had a 1.3 trillion deficit), increased unemployment (ignore that it had been trending up for the previous 6 months) and socialized medicene (ignore Obamacare was the conservative plan for the previous 15 years). If your liberal, you go he navigated a tough economic period (see Europe for the wrong approach, See how our auto industry is now compared to final days of Bush,...) that was inherited, improved the health care , and got Bin Ladin. And you ignore all of his failures (hasn't gotten the troops 100% out, hasn't gotten the bush tax cuts revoked, didn't get medicare for all, didn't regulate the financial industry so 2008 doesn't happen again,hasn't gotten the private sector ok but with state layoffs unemployment really didn't change).

Obama should have done is tax cuts differently. Those 1000 payroll cuts just don't get noticed. He should have pulled a page from the Bush play book and mailed out rebate checks. And made sure those checks arrived on Nov 1st . It would have been awesome to hear the rants about buying an election......

Quote:

  newtogolf said:

I personally don't care where he was born, but for the sake of integrity, the long form he provided was a fake, which he admitted to, saying that he provided it to shut Trump up.

As for Romney, he's disclosed what's required by law to run for President.  Let's be real, we know the guy made boat loads of money and probably used every tax law available to minimize his tax bill, as any smart business person would.  I'm sure Obama and Biden do the same thing.  You and I both know all the democrats want is a document to throw out there to show everyone how rich he is, because, well the rich are evil.

Let's not discuss that he donated over $4M to charity and that despite leveraging all the tax laws to his benefit he still paid more in taxes than Obama and Biden made combined.  The rich you are looking to take down (thoses making over $250,000) contribute 80% of the total income tax revenue this country collects.  Seems like they are paying their share, no?

I don't like Romney, but how can anyone in good conscience vote Obama back in for another 4 years after what he's done to this country?  I gave Obama his shot 4 years ago when the GOP put Sarah Palin up as V.P.  and made a mockery of the party.  I won't say Obama was as bad as GW, but Jimmy Carter will sleep easy knowing that both GW and Obama sucked worse than him as President, which is a really sad statement.

Believe me, I wish there was someone better to vote for, is Mickey Mouse running this year?

[hanalei]

Discuss Charity, id like to see the big donations without the tax right off! Means nothing... Oh and the deficit used to keep our American corporations afloat and middle class employed? I believe this was derived and suggested by republican wall street economists...same people who caused the debacle.

[zipazoid]

  newtogolf said:

Originally Posted by newtogolf

I personally don't care where he was born, but for the sake of integrity, the long form he provided was a fake, which he admitted to, saying that he provided it to shut Trump up.

You just disqualified yourself from consideration for continued discussion on this topic. Which is good, cuz it saves me the time from having to address the rest of the lies you wrote.

[David in FL]

  hanalei said:

Discuss Charity, id like to see the big donations without the tax right off! Means nothing...

Why? Are you saying that you'd like to remove the charitable donation deduction? Again, why? What do you think that would do to charities that rely heavily on private contributions?

[Mr. Desmond]

  David in FL said:

Originally Posted by David in FL

How true!

I can only imagine the horror with which John F Kennedy would view the current Democrat Party.

Ask not what your country can do for you....... Try floating THAT turd across the Democrat punch bowl these days!

I see ... you take the maybe 10% of people who are on entitlements waiting for a check every month and don't seek work, and state they are the Democratic Party. I doubt if they are members of the Dems or vote, since that would require effort.

But the sad reality is that most people on entitlements include many of the elderly, people who work but do not make sufficient, or people searching for work. There is research indicating that children in this country are going hungry because of a lack of funding of children's programs.

The problem is Republicans scream "socialism" because they want to take more from the country - the Bush tax cuts added $1T to the deficit. The wealthy were not screaming "socialism" when they paid higher rates under Clinton or heck, let's take your example. JFK. But they are holding up the government because of some pledge to some nonelected official - Norquist -

So the turd you so roughly refer to is your statement (s). But you argue like a lot of those who would be labeled as right wing - forget facts, let's make up something.

There is plenty of blame to go around on both sides by using facts, not fantasy. I've seen enough Obama "did this" emails from right wingers over the last 4 years to realize this guy never had a chance with about 35% of the people. All the viral emails are false. You don't have to make up stories to find the dirt on anyone in public office. But I guess it helps to demonize him, to make Obama less human - and then the fantasies are easier to spread - you don't feel guilty about lying when you've dehumanized an individual.

And none of this demonizing helps the country - we've got millions of unemployed and 16T+ in deficit, and all the GOP wants to do is nothing. Let's not work with the guy - we just want our power back, and we'll sit here, cry, and fantasize until we get it back.

[x129]

They would have to deal with the a new reality. But isn't that better than forcing  tax payers to subsidize Westboro Baptist Church which I am guessing less .1% agree with? Get rid of these exemptions and drop the rates. You will have more money to donate and people that don't believe in your cause will not have to subsidize it.  Heck even most religious groups agree with this point of view. Look at all the ones that don't like Obamacare because it forces them to pay for something they don't believe in.  Surely they wouldn't want to force other people to pay for something they didn't believe in.

  David in FL said:

Originally Posted by David in FL

Why?

Are you saying that you'd like to remove the charitable donation deduction? Again, why? What do you think that would do to charities that rely heavily on private contributions?

[JesseV]

At least Jack is supporting a candidate who is pro-America and is not a murderer or serial liar. Jack is supporting a candidate who is for a strong America and not a candidate that is out to destroy this nation.

I guess the goobermint cheese,ows crowd has even found its way to The Sand Trap.

[bunkerputt]

  zipazoid said:

Originally Posted by zipazoid

A rich guy endorsing the Republican candidate. I'm shocked.

That rich guy gave 30% of his income to charity last year.  Did you do that?

[Mr. Desmond]

  JesseV said:

Originally Posted by JesseV

At least Jack is supporting a candidate who is pro-America and is not a murderer or serial liar. Jack is supporting a candidate who is for a strong America and not a candidate that is out to destroy this nation.

I guess the goobermint cheese,ows crowd has even found its way to The Sand Trap.

Oh, you're from Georgia.

Nice fantasy post.

[JesseV]

  Mr. Desmond said:

Originally Posted by Mr. Desmond

Oh, you're from Georgia.

Nice fantasy post.

So you support a man for President who is a bigger failure then Jimmy Carter.  A man whose foreign policy has set the ME on fire and is responsible for the death of an American Ambassador and 3 other Americans, a candidate whose DOJ has blood on its hands with the murder of Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry.

You support a candidate that has asked government contractors not to pass out pink slips until after the election, you support a candidate who has failed at everything except lying to the American people.

You support a candidate who can't take responsibility for anything he's done, good, which there is none, or bad.  He can't run on his record of failure so all you have left is to spread lies.

Thats your type of candidate?

With that type thinking you should not even be allowed to vote.

[zipazoid]

  bunkerputt said:

Originally Posted by bunkerputt

That rich guy gave 30% of his income to charity last year.  Did you do that?

Irrelevant what I did. But that rich guy, I'm sure, lived quite comfortably on the 70% he had left over. If he couldn't he wouldn't have given 30% to charity. I'm sure Jack didn't miss any meals.

I don't understand the mindset that rich people giving money makes them some kind of wonderful people anyway. They're giving what they have an abundance of and it's a tax writeoff. A rich person giving money is like an unemployed person giving their time - they both have a lot of it.

Noiw, a rich person giving their time & a poor person giving their money? Now you have people deserving of praise.

[David in FL]

  Mr. Desmond said:

I see ... you take the maybe 10% of people who are on entitlements waiting for a check every month and don't seek work, and state they are the Democratic Party. I doubt if they are members of the Dems or vote, since that would require effort. But the sad reality is that most people on entitlements include many of the elderly, people who work but do not make sufficient, or people searching for work. There is research indicating that children in this country are going hungry because of a lack of funding of children's programs. The problem is Republicans scream "socialism" because they want to take more from the country - the Bush tax cuts added $1T to the deficit. The wealthy were not screaming "socialism" when they paid higher rates under Clinton or heck, let's take your example. JFK. But they are holding up the government because of some pledge to some nonelected official - Norquist - So the turd you so roughly refer to is your statement[COLOR=333333](s). But you argue like a lot of those who would be labeled as right wing - forget facts, let's make up something. [/COLOR] [COLOR=333333]There is plenty of blame to go around on both sides by using facts, not fantasy. I've seen enough Obama "did this" emails from right wingers over the last 4 years to realize this guy never had a chance with about 35% of the people. All the viral emails are false. You don't have to make up stories to find the dirt on anyone in public office. But I guess it helps to demonize him, to make Obama less human - and then the fantasies are easier to spread - you don't feel guilty about lying when you've dehumanized an individual.[/COLOR] [COLOR=333333]And none of this demonizing helps the country - we've got millions of unemployed and 16T+ in deficit, and all the GOP wants to do is nothing. Let's not work with the guy - we just want our power back, and we'll sit here, cry, and fantasize until we get it back.[/COLOR]

10%.....? Heck, 15% are on food stamps alone! That's not the point though. The point is the overall expectation that a large portion of the population holds that the government exists to take care of them personally. My response was specifically to demonstrate my agreement with the post stating that party philosophies have changed dramatically since the 60's.....both parties, not just that of the Republican Party as was intimated in the post to which I responded. Where we differ is that I believe in individual freedom and responsibility, and Mr Obama believes that it's the job of government to provide for everyone. From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs. That's not demonizing him, it's just reality. Why won't we "work with" him? Again, we disagree vehemently with what he, and most of the Democrat Party are working towards......ultimately, Statism and Socialism. Anyone who doesn't see that simply hasn't been paying attention, or they're being intentionally disingenuous.

[JesseV]

David in FL - Well said!

[Mr. Desmond]

  JesseV said:

Originally Posted by JesseV

So you support a man for President who is a bigger failure then Jimmy Carter.  A man whose foreign policy has set the ME on fire and is responsible for the death of an American Ambassador and 3 other Americans, a candidate whose DOJ has blood on its hands with the murder of Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry.

You support a candidate that has asked government contractors not to pass out pink slips until after the election, you support a candidate who has failed at everything except lying to the American people.

You support a candidate who can't take responsibility for anything he's done, good, which there is none, or bad.  He can't run on his record of failure so all you have left is to spread lies.

Thats your type of candidate?

With that type thinking you should not even be allowed to vote.

Ahh, the emotional, non-thinking attack from another so-called American who wants to take away someone's right to vote.

A fantasy reply without fact, and with lots of assumptions.

You are the liar, or worse, you take other's lies as facts and spread them. How sad that you can't see reality.

First, I don't like either candidate as the answer to today's issues.

Romney doesn't even know who he is from moment to moment. I don't trust a man who does not know himself.

Obama leads from behind.

The Republicans majority in the House, and minority Senate oppose the President and filibuster - so we don't know if Obama is a failure. The GOP does not allow him to do anything for two years. And when he did pass a health care bill, it was a Conservative's Health Care Bill - one that Conservatives had proposed as a free market alternative. Look it up - it's true and factual.

Second, The Mideast is on fire because idiotic Americans put the ME on fire with their ridiculous anti-Muhammad video - they knew what would happen. All you need to do is to give Jihadists an excuse, and they take it. Yes, an Ambassador was murdered because after a test of security in June, they had confidence in the Libyan security force. That confidence was misplaced and mistakes were made.

Third, the President did take responsibility for the economy - said it was slower and more difficult than he expected. I do think he picked poor advisors on dealing with business and working with Republicans.

Fourth, the Administration has killed more AQ leadership in less than 4 years than Bush 43 did in 8 years. And during his tenure, Bin Laden was killed. And both "wars" are winding down - we are out of Iraq and will be out of Afghanistan not soon enough.

With Romney, I see more conflict. He is a businessmen, and businessmen have a poor record as President. Running a government is not like being a CEO. You can't push your will through unless you run both Houses and have respect. And his ideas are the same that caused the greatest recession since the Great Depression. Nice choice, GOP. Great for millionaires, bad for 95% of the citizenry.

__

And you probably voted for Bush 43 - who started a war based on lies, killed and wounded over 40k American Servicemen, 250k Iraqis, and fired the Iraqi Army of 450k men while they were armed. He did nothing in Afghanistan or Pakistan for 6 years and that's where AQ lived - And he did nothing to prevent a financial meltdown, causing 4M people to go unemployed. I could go on since memory fails you, but I need to earn a living.

Keep on living that fantasy - reality apparently does not suit you.

[David in FL]

[INDENT][/INDENT][quote name="bunkerputt" url="/t/62367/jack-nicklaus-endorses-romney-mitt-calls-jack-greatest-athlete-of-the-20th-century/162#post_773365"] That rich guy gave 30% of his income to charity last year.  Did you do that? [/quote] Don't you understand? Charitable giving is only celebrated when it comes as the result of the government taking money from those that earned it, and distributing it as they see fit.