"I wait on every single shot, every single day on the PGA Tour," he said. "I've gotten really used to doing that."

[RFetters]

If two pga professionals cant play 18 holes in 3 1/2 hours, the pace is too slow.

[wadesworld]

Originally Posted by Dave2512

I don't see pro slow play issues and those I see on the local course as the same issue. It's not the guy double lining up putts I see. It's the group playing back tees and spraying balls all over the course and taking too much time looking around for errant balls. Every instance of slow play I've witnessed this year has been directly proportional to the person's lack of golf skill.

I agree with this.

It's typically the group in front on you that hit 1 ball just past the ladies tees, and the other 3 into the junk.  Then they spend time looking for all those lost balls.  One guy finds it and hacks at it, and fails to get it out of the junk.  The other two drop, with one topping it 30-yards down the fairway, while the other hammers it 200 yards...across the fairway and into the junk on the other side further down.  When they do get to the green, it takes a while for 3 people to 4-putt.

[colin007]

heres another thing i would LOVE to see on the pro tours:

have the faster groups play thru.  that would be awesome.  imagine rory, snedeker, and fowler coming up behind ben crane, furyk, and na.  "hey guys, can we play thru?  yeah, the rules official told us we can.  we'll be out of your way in a sec.  see you in the clubhouse..."

i think that would be incredible.

[ghalfaire]

I would agree that slow play at the local municipal isn't caused by the same circumstances as slow play on the PGA tour.  There is a reason I avoid week end play since I retired.

[colin007]

really?  heres what i see on TV and on my local muni - pros and hackers alike who arent ready to hit their shot as soon as someone else is done hitting theirs.  seriously, i see clowns on the tour not ready to hit their shot until after they watch their playing partner(s) hit their shots. then they discuss yardage with the caddy, club selection, wind...etc.  instead of doing all of this while the others are hitting.

and then at my local courses, same thing.  people are oblivious to the task of playing golf with purpose.  "oh, its my turn?"

[Dave2512]

If I see someone taking too long to pull the trigger on the 2nd shot it's not because they aren't ready. More to do with wishful thinking and trying to be overly considerate. The guy that thinks he may crush it into the group 260y out but hasn't hit anything that far all day.

[rustyredcab]

Slow creates slow. I noticed while sitting in stop and go traffic that I was starting to let a larger and larger gap form between me and the car in front of me. After all, we'd be stopped again in a few seconds. I know that in a closed loop, like golf groups or cars in a traffic jam, keeping up with the group or car in front will speed up the process a bit. Still, it seems silly when you know you will catch the people in front in a few minutes.

Because I ride most of the time when playing, I ride up to my ball quickly in an effort to signal to those in front that I'm waiting. I do not think it has ever altered anyone's behavior except mine.

[Divotmaker77]

It takes me 3.5 hours to play a full round when walking. 3 hours or less in a cart.  Groups of 4 in a cart on a non busy day 3.5-4.  We are by far no where near the skill level of a tour pro.  That said, we may hit some bad shots in the woods, etc. that takes time to find.  Point blank, I hit anywhere between 80-95 shots along with my buddy.  That is at least 10 more shots than a tour pro on their average day.  Why it takes them the same amount of time with much less shots and a caddy carrying their bag makes no sense to me.

As for slow play in general, by far the biggest issues I see on the public courses are 5 somes (no excuse for it), setting tee times 5 minutes out from one another (I have no time to get a hole in without another group right behind me ready to hit), and just plain bad golfers hacking all over the place and trying to play like a pro.  I will never fault someone enjoying themselves, reading a putt, having a preshot routine, etc.  We all want to have a good time and play well.  But spending 10 minutes trying to find a ball multiple times a round, looking for more balls so you do not have to buy anymore, reading your putting line for 3 minutes, not being ready to hit after your partner, etc. etc. are habits many folks have and it builds up on a course as the day goes on and makes it unbearable at times.

It comes down to courses having better rangers and not being afraid to tell people to speed up.  Half the courses I go to do not have rangers and their pro shop are more interested in getting as many people on the course as possible ($$$$$) than making each of their customers experience better.

Weekends, I avoid them now.  Absolute nightmare playing on weekends.  I love this time of the year because the courses are not as busy and I can relax more and spend a little more time than normal and usually play better.

[Stretch]

Interesting question. How come it's unfair to hurry up the guys (at the professional level) who play better slow but OK to slow down the players who (would) play better fast?

[Dave2512]

Not sure it's okay either way. Personally I feel my best golf is played when I am out there not thinking about it, playing at whatever pace is good for that particular day. The things I see slowing down the pros are waiting on rulings, discussing rulings with the RO. Marking exact club lengths before moving on to multiple drops. What wouldn't be a big deal for us is lengthy process by the time they move spectators and take relief from objects that wouldn't usually be there. They don't have to miss by much to be in awkward situations. Add a few of those instances in a round with the usual caddy chat and other BS and they're out there a long time. It happens to fast and slow players alike. It's not just taking to much time overthinking it.

[MEfree]

Originally Posted by colin007

really?  heres what i see on TV and on my local muni - pros and hackers alike who arent ready to hit their shot as soon as someone else is done hitting theirs.  seriously, i see clowns on the tour not ready to hit their shot until after they watch their playing partner(s) hit their shots.  then they discuss yardage with the caddy, club selection, wind...etc.  instead of doing all of this while the others are hitting.

and then at my local courses, same thing.  people are oblivious to the task of playing golf with purpose.  "oh, its my turn?"

I too have seen rec players being unprepared to play when it is their turn with no good excuse for this.

As far as the pros go, if you are a fast player, it behooves you to try to come up with a routine that is consistent and doesn`t have you twiddle your thumbs AFTER you are prepared to play...I could certainly see some otherwise fast players decide NOT to discuss the shot until it is their turn in order to have a more consistent routine that see them prepare to play, then play as opposed to preparing to play, then waiting on their playing partner(s) to go through their whole routine and hit their shot, then playing.

Originally Posted by Stretch

Interesting question. How come it's unfair to hurry up the guys (at the professional level) who play better slow but OK to slow down the players who (would) play better fast?

The PGA Tour will put a group on the clock if they are out of position, so in extreme situations they do speed up the slower players.  However, you are right that most of the time the faster players have to end up slowing down.  Golf has always been a game of "How Many" not "How" or "How Fast"

[AmazingWhacker]

I love to play fast.  It's probably true that most slow players on public courses are bad golfers . .BUT . .there are some bad golfers that play quickly.  I play a lot at a local par3 and my buddy and I try to see how fast we can play 9 holes.  Current record : 38 minutes.  A few times ago we got stuck behind a man and a woman who were bad, slow golfers, in front of them was a guy with 2 little kids - 1.5 hours.  When that happens, I defintely do like Fowler or whoever owns the quote in the OP - I slow down my routine and play slower.  I take more practice swings, line up putts more carefully, etc.  I don't really play any better or worse.  If I play faster than the pace of the course (sometimes unavoidable) and end up standing around a lot - I definitely play worse.

[Paradox]

I think it enables the problem to say "well you can't do anything with the slow players so the faster players have to slow down"

Public courses can do lots about slow players.  Enforce the pace of play clock, be present on the course to help direct faster groups through slower ones etc.etc...

The tour can also start penalizing guys for slow play much quicker than they do now.  Each player can start with a 30 second shot clock kept by the official with each grouping. 30 seconds is WAY more than enough time to hit a drive or an approach and is enough time to read a putt and hit it, as well.  Groups couldn't play through because you run the risk of someone deliberately slowing down to become the dog instead of the rabbit.

[Stretch]

[colin007]

Good article, Stretch. I'm in favor of shooting slow players, but that may be a little lenient on my part... :-)

[newtogolf]

For the same reason it's not okay to go 85mph on the highway when the rest of the people are driving the legal speed limit.

If someone is playing too slow, they get put on the clock, otherwise it's up to the rest to adjust their speed to the acceptable tempo.   If I'm keeping up with the group in front and the gropu in front is playing at an acceptable pace to those in front of them then the speedy players need to slow down or find another course to play their speed golf at.

Originally Posted by Stretch

Interesting question. How come it's unfair to hurry up the guys (at the professional level) who play better slow but OK to slow down the players who (would) play better fast?

[colin007]

Imho 4.5 hours is NOT an acceptable tempo. I think 3.5 hours should be the acceptable tempo. Why is my opinion or pace any less valid?

[Stretch]

Originally Posted by newtogolf

For the same reason it's not okay to go 85mph on the highway when the rest of the people are driving the legal speed limit.

If someone is playing too slow, they get put on the clock, otherwise it's up to the rest to adjust their speed to the acceptable tempo.   If I'm keeping up with the group in front and the gropu in front is playing at an acceptable pace to those in front of them then the speedy players need to slow down or find another course to play their speed golf at.

Just out of interest, do you know what the "legal speed limit" (ie. the USGA pace of play rating) is for the courses you generally frequent? Or have you made yourself the arbiter of what constitutes "the acceptable tempo"?

Slow golf, on the players' side of the equation, is largely a cultural issue in my opinion. Habits and expectations are formed by the environment in which you play. I'm lucky enough to belong to a club that has no issues with it, because it's simply not tolerated. If you hold up the field on a members' competition day, you will hear about it at length afterwards in the club house and it may well cost you a few drinks. Informal, but indisputably effective. On Wednesday this week -- paired with a 2, a 17 and a 23 handicap in 30 mph wind -- we went round in just over four hours including a stop for lunch. Full field, all walking, never made contact with the groups ahead or behind and never felt rushed. Got spanked 7 & 6, but that's another story.