Anchored Putters Rules Change (Effective January 1, 2016)

[Chuck Howe]

The rule does not ban the use of the belly or long putter, just the anchored stroke. There are methods of using these clubs without anchoring. I am practicing with a stroke that is legal called the lateral line, or side saddle method.

[ThominOH]

Originally Posted by iacas

Straw man argument.

They were not banned because anchoring provides an advantage. They were banned because the practice was not deemed a true "stroke."

Point #1 defeated.

Wrong. The Casey Martin case was ruled the way it was because the Supreme Court deemed walking to be non-essential to top-level tournament play (I disagree). The Supreme Court would not rule putting to be non-essential to top-level tournament play. I'll even ignore the fact that you tried to rely on your straw man argument to support point #2 and will focus purely on the legal argument: walking was ruled inessential, but putting would not be deemed so, and the USGA is free to make the rules for their game, just as people are free to choose not to play it if they want.

Point #2 defeated.

That has what to do with this, exactly? I know a lot of amateurs who putt out every hole. Some annoyingly so (a 12-inch putt that's been conceded in match play). Is it your point that because some people don't follow every rule to the letter we should just say "screw it" and not worry about the Rules?

Always good for a conspiracy theory, are we? Are you sure you can't work your hatred for Tiger Woods into this one somehow! It's all his fault!!! :)

So again, is it your position that because some people choose to break some rules, we should just throw away the Rules and do whatever we want?

Wow.. are you really this brain dead stupid? Tell us how GPS systems are not a violation of the USGA rules?  (cough)..  You sir are a hypocrite to what is a violation to the "integrity" of the game person..  You have no problem calling someone a cheater that anchors their putter, but do you have the same balls to call ALL the millions of golfers that take gimme's and use a GPS cheaters too?  or do you blindly ignore those rule violations?

As Annika pointed out today on Morning Drive.. She has more issues with how caddies infringe on the game then an anchor putter..

[newtogolf]

I don't understand your point, we are talking about the Rules of Golf.  If someone doesn't putt out every single hole they aren't playing according to the rules, they shouldn't be submitting their score for handicap and they most likely will continue to anchor a belly putter to their body when they putt if they did before yesterday.

This rule affects people who play by the rules.  I doubt anyone that intentionally breaks the rules (by not putting out) bothers to spend the $20 to join the USGA in the first place.  If it's not Match play, I putt out every hole.  I don't submit my scores for handicap when I play a round of Match play, and I'm a crappy 20 handicap.  Some of us do follow the rules and when playing competitively we like to make sure everyone else playing follows the rules as well.

Originally Posted by ThominOH

I get so sick and tired of hearing shit like this.. "integrity" of the game.... How many amateurs putt out every single hole.. Lets me honest here, This anchoring thing was just a public hanging against the pro's, generated by the pro's..   If people were so uppity about the integrity and rules of the game, there would be NO GIMME's in golf..  I can safely say that 80%+ of all amateur golfers and EVEN pro's when NOT in competition pick up gimme putts.. I wonder how many of the "pro-rule" change fans refuse to allow anyone in their group to take a gimme or a mulligan.. I think both gimme and mulligans are prohibited according to the rules, are they not?

[RayG]

And Seriously, wait 4 years for it to take effect? These guys change clubs and swings practically on a weekly basis. Tell them as of Jan. 1st, 2013 it's over. Let them cry for a week or two, and then when the time comes they'll all be putting like they were before and nobody will care anymore. Now we have to go through 4 years of whinging and moaning and complaining- lawsuits from equipment companies, individual golfers, agents and anyone else who might lose a dollar or two because of this. Someone will win a big tourney using some weird regular length putter and say "this works so much better than the old long putter, it's amazing", and POOF! Those will sell like hotcakes and you can pick up long putters at a garage sale for $5. Kind of like what happened when Nicklaus won the Masters in '86 with his "oversize" putter. By Monday his MacGregor Response ZT model was everywhere and everyone wanted them. I don't personally care either way- I have NEVER come across anyone in any group I've played in, actually using one. Nor do I worry about what the pros will do if they can't. It's just the process... Ban it, make a date, do it, move on.

[David in FL]

Tell us how GPS systems are not a violation of the USGA rules?  (cough)..

The USGA specifically allows a competition committee to allow the use of distance measuring devices in a stipulated round via local rule. They go so far as to provide recommended verbiage for that rule. (Cough.....)

[RonTheSavage]

Originally Posted by ThominOH

Wow.. are you really this brain dead stupid? Tell us how GPS systems are not a violation of the USGA rules?  (cough)..  You sir are a hypocrite to what is a violation to the "integrity" of the game person..  You have no problem calling someone a cheater that anchors their putter, but do you have the same balls to call ALL the millions of golfers that take gimme's and use a GPS cheaters too?  or do you blindly ignore those rule violations?

As Annika pointed out today on Morning Drive.. She has more issues with how caddies infringe on the game then an anchor putter..

This thread just got real...........

[rehmwa]

Not replying to anyone in general.....lots of passions in this thread....

"Oh, this is the worst-looking hat I ever saw. What, when you buy a hat like this I bet you get a free bowl of soup, huh? Oh, it looks good on you though."

When people talk about the "integrity" or "appearance" of the sport, I can't help but visualize them as Ted Knight wearing that hat and in a state of blustery outrage.

I suspect there are a subset of people out there that would be thrilled to force everyone to dress like Payne Stewart too.

If you play with me, I don't care if you have a GPS or not.  I might think it's fun and ask to see it.  I certainly like my laser a ton.

If you play with me, It's not one bit annoying if you putt out a 4 inch tap, or pick up a 4 foot putt.

I don't care if you hit from the tips or the ladies' tees

If you play super slow, it's annoying, but then I won't comment, I just won't play with you next time or I might go on ahead or I might suggest you let the group behind play through.

If you don't hold up play, I don't even care if you hit that second ball.

I'll buy the first round off the drink cart pretty much every time.

Seems most of the passion in the activity is about how much people want to force others to play 'their' way - and we wonder why the game has a snob stereotype

I don't care what putter you use.

that's all ^^^^ recreational -

if it's a comp - I'll follow whatever subjective rules (by definition, it's a game) are laid out and recognize that what the rules are don't matter one bit - as long as everyone is subject to the same rules

[Valleygolfer]

[QUOTE name="iacas" url="/t/62766/anchored-putters-rules-change-was-decision-coming-soon/216#post_788057"] Straw man argument. They were not banned because anchoring provides an advantage. They were banned because the practice was not deemed a true "stroke." Point #1 defeated. Wrong. The Casey Martin case was ruled the way it was because the Supreme Court deemed walking to be non-essential to top-level tournament play (I disagree). The Supreme Court would not rule putting to be non-essential to top-level tournament play. I'll even ignore the fact that you tried to rely on your straw man argument to support point #2 and will focus purely on the legal argument: walking was ruled inessential, but putting would not be deemed so, and the USGA is free to make the rules for their game, just as people are free to choose not to play it if they want. Point #2 defeated. That has what to do with this, exactly? I know a lot of amateurs who putt out every hole. Some annoyingly so (a 12-inch putt that's been conceded in match play). Is it your point that because some people don't follow every rule to the letter we should just say "screw it" and not worry about the Rules? Always good for a conspiracy theory, are we? Are you sure you can't work your hatred for Tiger Woods into this one somehow! It's all his fault!!! :) So again, is it your position that because some people choose to break some rules, we should just throw away the Rules and do whatever we want? [/QUOTE] Wow.. are you really this brain dead stupid? Tell us how GPS systems are not a violation of the USGA rules?  (cough)..  You sir are a hypocrite to what is a violation to the "integrity" of the game person..  You have no problem calling someone a cheater that anchors their putter, but do you have the same balls to call ALL the millions of golfers that take gimme's and use a GPS cheaters too?  or do you blindly ignore those rule violations?   As Annika pointed out today on Morning Drive.. She has more issues with how caddies infringe on the game then an anchor putter..

Gps is not any difference from getting yardages from the markers. You are receiving outside information on distance. Maybe you are the one that is "brain dead stupid". If gps cannot be used we would have to remove all outside yardage recommendations.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by RayG

And Seriously, wait 4 years for it to take effect? These guys change clubs and swings practically on a weekly basis. Tell them as of Jan. 1st, 2013 it's over. Let them cry for a week or two, and then when the time comes they'll all be putting like they were before and nobody will care anymore. Now we have to go through 4 years of whinging and moaning and complaining- lawsuits from equipment companies, individual golfers, agents and anyone else who might lose a dollar or two because of this. Someone will win a big tourney using some weird regular length putter and say "this works so much better than the old long putter, it's amazing", and POOF! Those will sell like hotcakes and you can pick up long putters at a garage sale for $5. Kind of like what happened when Nicklaus won the Masters in '86 with his "oversize" putter. By Monday his MacGregor Response ZT model was everywhere and everyone wanted them.

I don't personally care either way- I have NEVER come across anyone in any group I've played in, actually using one. Nor do I worry about what the pros will do if they can't. It's just the process... Ban it, make a date, do it, move on.

Um.... actually the reason for it taking 3 years (not 4) is because that is when the next revision of the Rules of Golf comes out.  They will sometimes add a Decision earlier if the issue is seen to be critical or urgent, but most revised rules only get posted on a 4 year cycle.  I think that the only reason for the early warning is so that players who use the anchored method have time to convert before the deadline.

Originally Posted by rehmwa

Not replying to anyone in general.....lots of passions in this thread....

"Oh, this is the worst-looking hat I ever saw. What, when you buy a hat like this I bet you get a free bowl of soup, huh? Oh, it looks good on you though."

When people talk about the "integrity" or "appearance" of the sport, I can't help but visualize them as Ted Knight wearing that hat and in a state of blustery outrage.

I suspect there are a subset of people out there that would be thrilled to force everyone to dress like Payne Stewart too.

If you play with me, I don't care if you have a GPS or not.  I might think it's fun and ask to see it.  I certainly like my laser a ton.

If you play with me, It's not one bit annoying if you putt out a 4 inch tap, or pick up a 4 foot putt.

I don't care if you hit from the tips or the ladies' tees

If you play super slow, it's annoying, but then I won't comment, I just won't play with you next time or I might go on ahead or I might suggest you let the group behind play through.

If you don't hold up play, I don't even care if you hit that second ball.

I'll buy the first round off the drink cart pretty much every time.

Seems most of the passion in the activity is about how much people want to force others to play 'their' way - and we wonder why the game has a snob stereotype

I don't care what putter you use.

that's all ^^^^ recreational -

if it's a comp - I'll follow whatever subjective rules (by definition, it's a game) are laid out and recognize that what the rules are don't matter one bit - as long as everyone is subject to the same rules

Can I play with you?  You sound like a golfer.  (by the way, I grew up in White Bear Lake )

[Par Fore]

Originally Posted by Chuck Howe

The rule does not ban the use of the belly or long putter, just the anchored stroke. There are methods of using these clubs without anchoring. I am practicing with a stroke that is legal called the lateral line, or side saddle method.

Great point here, no equipment change required, no impact on a players cost to enjoy the game.

Casey Martin is a hero - anybody that has dealt with severe back, joint, or any other pain knows that what he does is tough.

95% of golfers don't play by the rules - they roll the ball, take short putts, foot wedges, etc.....and I'm glad they come out.  They keep courses open and most of them are fun to play with.  They aren't even trying to cheat, they just play golf the way they learned from their dad.  The golf course is a welcome relaxing release from their daily grind.

As far as the pros/impact on income, we all deal with policy changes at work, and some of those may effect only one department.  At first they are tough and can effect your income, but you make the best of it, find a way to succeed and move on.  3 years to adapt to this is a gift - most of us have a month or less, if we are lucky.

If they outlawed drivers, I'd buy a 9 degree 3 wood.  If they outlawed clubs greater than 56 degrees, I'd open up my 56, just like I did in high school.  Games evolve.

Remember when Phil was using that ping wedge.....if I remember right, some long anchor putter guys were upset because it was against the spirit of the rule.  Now it's time for them to walk the walk.

Most sports live by the adage that it's ok to cheat as long as you don't get caught.  Steroids in baseball, blood doping in cycling, holding in football, flopping in soccer.  It's an honor to love a sport where integrity still exists.

[dave67az]

Originally Posted by Valleygolfer

Gps is not any difference from getting yardages from the markers. You are receiving outside information on distance. Maybe you are the one that is "brain dead stupid". If gps cannot be used we would have to remove all outside yardage recommendations.

With all due respect, I have NEVER seen a yardage marker in a fairway or on a tee box that tells you how far you need to carry to clear a bunker or water hazard.  To say that the on-course markers are the same as GPS is ridiculous.

[Valleygolfer]

[QUOTE name="Valleygolfer" url="/t/62766/anchored-putters-rules-change-was-decision-coming-soon/234#post_788100"] Gps is not any difference from getting yardages from the markers. You are receiving outside information on distance. Maybe you are the one that is "brain dead stupid". If gps cannot be used we would have to remove all outside yardage recommendations.[/QUOTE] With all due respect, I have NEVER seen a yardage marker in a fairway or on a tee box that tells you how far you need to carry to clear a bunker or water hazard.  To say that the on-course markers are the same as GPS is ridiculous.

I am not saying it is the same but it is still information that is given that a golfer otherwise would not know "exactly". Tee boxes will give you distances over hazards or offer layup spots, sprinkler heads and yardage markers all offer otherwise unknown information. GPS and range finders take it up a notch or save people from walking yardages and running over to see the marker in the fairway. We have to hit the "shot" which is all that really matters. Regulars to course could walk out the whole track for yardage, gps, range finders and markers help the visitors and save time. Now back to our regularly scheduled discussion.

[RayG]

"Um.... actually the reason for it taking 3 years (not 4) is because that is when the next revision of the Rules of Golf comes out. They will sometimes add a Decision earlier if the issue is seen to be critical or urgent, but most revised rules only get posted on a 4 year cycle. I think that the only reason for the early warning is so that players who use the anchored method have time to convert before the deadline. " 3, 4, whatever.... Giving these guys time to convert? Like I mentioned, they change swings more than I change the litter box. If you tell them you can't use use it after Jan 1st, they will convert. They'll complain, but they WILL convert. Waiting for the next 'revision of the Rules of Golf is going to cause all kinds of problems. Have the tour say: "right, that's it, no more anchoring as of this date as per the upcoming "Revisions to the Rules of Golf"..." and get it over with. Now it will be "what about this, can I do this? how about this? and this? what about this, or this?" and on and on.

[griecke]

It's the same old thing; "I will make a rule so YOU can't win". You can bet your sweet behind that if Tiger or Rory were using a belly putter we would all be saying it's ok. I just ground up my usga card, oh, I know they don't care and won't miss me but I will play with my long putter until I die and no one can do anything about it. So There!

For the good of the game. That's a good one.

Gary

[bigwave916]

Originally Posted by Valleygolfer

Now back to our regularly scheduled discussion.

I've never been a fan of the anchored stroke and agree with the R&A; and the USGA on most of their points. I don't think it will have any effect on the number of golfers playing now, quitting the sport, or taking it up.  Those arguments just don't pass the smell test.

Whether it's an advantage or not, well I doubt it.........but it may be a help to those who don't putt well using a more conventional stroke (if such a thing exists) . In other words, no one will kick butt using the anchored stroke because it only brings their capability up to the level of the players who putt well with the conventional stroke.

In my case, I've considered trying it but I average about 32 putts a round and I don't think it would be an improvement. I don't have time to spend learning a new putting style anyway.

I must admit though,  I am tempted to build or buy a long putter and put one of those jumbo grips on the top with the flat side of the grip facing the left forearm.  Anything I can do to keep the clubface square to the line of putt is important to me since a lot of my misses come from turning the putter in my hands.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

No, because this is not an equipment ban, it's a refined definition of what constitutes a stroke.  As long as it isn't anchored to a pivot point on the body in some fashion, then the club itself is legal.

He knows that, he's just pointing out that if you have a putter that is touching your shirt, it might LOOK like you were anchoring it.  (Maybe a still seething sour grapes inflicted Carl Petterson will get paired up with Angel or Davis and make a big stink about it one tournament)  I'm guessing, though, that all of these guys know their putting styles and know that they aren't anchoring, and it will be a non-issue.

Or, Polo will start shipping Davis medium's to show off his six pack.

Quote:

Um.... actually the reason for it taking 3 years (not 4) is because that is when the next revision of the Rules of Golf comes out.  They will sometimes add a Decision earlier if the issue is seen to be critical or urgent, but most revised rules only get posted on a 4 year cycle.  I think that the only reason for the early warning is so that players who use the anchored method have time to convert before the deadline.

They knew that the rule couldn't take effect until 2016, but made a point to get it out there now.  I think that was very wise, and frankly, polite.  It will almost act as a de facto grandfathering for some older players, because they may not even be around by then anyway.  Additionally, it gives all of the rest more than enough time to reaquaint themselves with their old short putters.

PS ... I wonder if Langer (assuming he's still playing then) will revert immediately back to his legal alternative grip (because I'm pretty sure he currently uses a broomstick) or try to just go back to a conventional grip.

[MerVal]

You guys are vastly oversimplifying the Casey Martin Ruling. Just because it had to do with walking means you need to recognize the arguments made as to why they allowed walking, because that is the precedent made. If the PGA is meant a commercial enterprise meant to serve the economic benefit of its members, then how can they ban anchoring unless they can prove it isn't a true stroke, it deprives its members of income. (USGA is different, they can make the rule cause they are a private club whose membership doesnt depend on them as income.

As someone who is a great ballstriker and a marginal putter, who has found benefit competitively in a switch to a belly putter I am frustrated. People who are terrible at hitting the ball can still play well because drivers and irons are 10x more forgiving than they should be. They marginalized the ballstrikers advantage, while refusing to do this for putters. Ban drivers over 360cc, and ban cavity and musclebacks and im happy.

Also the reason you don't see many people complaining is because it is a minority of users. Most people simply don't care. If they banned Nike Drivers...most people would be like "sure, i dont care. i use Taylormade or Titleist"...so it would seem like most people were fine with it but every single Nike user user would be upset. But itd be a minority

[dave67az]

Originally Posted by Valleygolfer

I am not saying it is the same but it is still information that is given that a golfer otherwise would not know "exactly". Tee boxes will give you distances over hazards or offer layup spots, sprinkler heads and yardage markers all offer otherwise unknown information. GPS and range finders take it up a notch or save people from walking yardages and running over to see the marker in the fairway. We have to hit the "shot" which is all that really matters. Regulars to course could walk out the whole track for yardage, gps, range finders and markers help the visitors and save time.

Now back to our regularly scheduled discussion.

I do see your point, and now that I think about it there are a few courses I've played that have tee boxes that mention carry yardage to large hazards.  GPS, however, goes far beyond anything you could obtain by walking a course.  Golflogix identifies your current position and allows you to point to any spot on the map and it will give you exact distance.  From what I've seen of the info in the pro's yardage books, they don't even get that exact (mostly because they don't need to know yardage from the rough, where I usually end up).

Originally Posted by griecke

It's the same old thing; "I will make a rule so YOU can't win". You can bet your sweet behind that if Tiger or Rory were using a belly putter we would all be saying it's ok. I just ground up my usga card, oh, I know they don't care and won't miss me but I will play with my long putter until I die and no one can do anything about it. So There!

For the good of the game. That's a good one.

Gary

I picture some kids playing wiffle ball (something I was familiar with before my golfing days) and this kid is at the plate.  After a third swing-and-miss I can hear him whining saying "that one didn't count, let me try again".  Who needs rules, right?  I mean, everyone should be able to make up their own rules and just play that way.

It reeks of the same garbage we hear from some soccer moms who are upset that their child was on a losing team so now they're pushing these leagues that don't even keep score and everyone gets to play no matter how bad they suck at the game.  One kid spends hours practicing each week to get better but by God we can't reward them for their improved skill because it would make everyone else feel bad about their own skill.

You know what, if you don't like getting only three strikes then stop playing baseball.  Go find something else to do.  If you don't like the fact that you only get one forward pass per play, stop playing football.  And if you can't deal with the rules of golf, go play something else.  But don't get this attitude that you have the right to make up the rules for your own game and still act like you're playing golf.  You're not playing golf if you're not playing by the rules.  Stay home.  Make up a lie about how you went out and shot 65 on your course that you can tell your buddies.  It's just as dishonest in my opinion.  If you just want to hit golf balls and don't care about the rules, we have driving ranges for that.  If you just want to impress yourself with your putting, we have practice greens for that.  If you want to actually play the game, welcome to the course.  But don't expect any sympathy from anyone who actually follows the rules and ENJOYS the challenge of doing it the RIGHT way.

Rules are necessary.  If you're a control freak who can't deal with someone else telling you what to do or how to do it, I think you've got far more to worry about than your putting.