Can we stop using "a6 and p3 and l34.75"

[logman]

It's just confusing . I have no idea what "A6" is. But I do know what 3 o'clock is. Everybody knows what 3 o'clock is. SO is it possible to drop the jargon so everyone can understand what we're talking about.

[TimG3394]

Originally Posted by logman

It's just confusing . I have no idea what "A6" is. But I do know what 3 o'clock is. Everybody knows what 3 o'clock is. SO is it possible to drop the jargon so everyone can understand what we're talking about.

This is from Erik's Big List of Golf Terminology

These "A" positions stand for "alignments" and will often be written as "P." Since launching 5 Simple Keys we've changed our use of these terms to "A."

A1: Address
A2: Club shaft parallel to the ground on the takeaway
A3: Lead arm parallel to the ground on the takeaway
A4: Top of backswing
A5: Lead arm parallel to the ground on the downswing
A6: Club shaft parallel to ground on the downswing
A7: Impact
A8: Club shaft parallel to ground on follow-through.
A9: Right arm parallel to ground on follow-through.

A10: Finish

http://thesandtrap.com/a/big-list-of-golf-terminology

[Harmonious]

Originally Posted by logman

It's just confusing . I have no idea what "A6" is. But I do know what 3 o'clock is. Everybody knows what 3 o'clock is. SO is it possible to drop the jargon so everyone can understand what we're talking about.

I agree.  Almost every time I start to read about A this or P that, I just go to the next thread.

[tristanhilton85]

It's not all that hard guys... and quite frankly once you know it it makes it easer... what's easier to say, "when the club is pointing to 3 o'clock" or "A8." Just sayin'.

[jamo]

I like it. It's easier to say "A2" than "club shaft parallel to ground on the backswing." Plus, there are two "3 o'clocks" on the backswing and two on the downswing, and they're often very different. (I guess those would be 9 o'clock with a face on video, but you get the idea.)

[Beachcomber]

Learning them may improve your understanding of the swing. Which in turn could help improve your game?

[billchao]

Originally Posted by jamo

I like it. It's easier to say "A2" than "club shaft parallel to ground on the backswing."

Plus, there are two "3 o'clocks" on the backswing and two on the downswing, and they're often very different. (I guess those would be 9 o'clock with a face on video, but you get the idea.)

Agreed. Remember that the whole point of the system is to identify specific moments during the golf swing and clear up any confusion we could have over semantics. Whose 3 o'clock are we talking about anyway? My view? My caddie's? Bird's eye?

[iacas]

Originally Posted by logman

It's just confusing . I have no idea what "A6" is. But I do know what 3 o'clock is. Everybody knows what 3 o'clock is. SO is it possible to drop the jargon so everyone can understand what we're talking about.

You're free to stop using them. Go ahead.

It's shorthand AND easier to understand than "3 o'clock." I've also provided - for a few years now - a list of the terms, so I disagree that it's confusing.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by tristanhilton85

It's not all that hard guys... and quite frankly once you know it it makes it easer... what's easier to say, "when the club is pointing to 3 o'clock" or "A8." Just sayin'.

Agree.

Originally Posted by logman

It's just confusing . I have no idea what "A6" is. But I do know what 3 o'clock is. Everybody knows what 3 o'clock is. SO is it possible to drop the jargon so everyone can understand what we're talking about.

Do we?  Is it when my arms are at 3 o'clock?  Or is it when my club is at 3 o'clock?  If I'm am facing you, I guess we're talking follow through?  But if I am behind you is it the backswing?  Or is it the downswing?  Everybody knows what you are trying to do when you use clock terminology, but its not clear at all.  Based on the vagueness of "3 o'clock" it could mean a2,a3,a5,a6, or a8.

Originally Posted by iacas

You're free to stop using them. Go ahead.

It's shorthand AND easier to understand than "3 o'clock." I've also provided - for a few years now - a list of the terms, so I disagree that it's confusing.

Exactly. Not everybody uses it, and its not like anybody is snobby about it.  I've never seen anybody "correct" somebody who doesn't use the shorthand. Go right ahead and say 3 o'clock if you want.

[LuciusWooding]

Jargon isn't designed to confuse you. All it is is specialized language, precise but simplified as much as possible for effective use among those knowledgeable in the field. If you walked up to an organic chemist and asked him or her to stop using big words that were hard to understand, they'd look at you like you were a neanderthal with 3 heads because that field, among others, uses a great deal of technical language which is essential to discussing one's work. Your lack of understanding as someone not knowledgeable in the field does not make the terms complicated; they're as simple as they can be without losing their meaning. Any explanation simplified further would lose its precision in order to make someone understand the concepts. You have to delve into metaphor to translate most complex things into simpler terms, and metaphor may be an effective tool but it is a subjective and imprecise one. (For example, referring to part of the wrist action as wrist hinge is a metaphor; the wrist is not literally a hinge but it has a similar swinging motion.)

There's nothing wrong with having to look things up or have it explained to you, if you aren't familiar with the terminology. It will make you enjoy the forum much more if you at least keep the list as a reference so you can follow along. It works best, though, when people don't try to coin their own terms for everything, as people have mentioned.

BTW I saved the list of terms a while ago, and it's useful as a list of fundamentals as much as anything. People really don't bombard you with those terms on here, and half the time even the instructors who do post a video or picture to demonstrate.

[Phil McGleno]

Next we should stop using things like "ankles" and just say "bend that piece that connects your foot and the bottom part of your leg to one another" of course that s if we are still allowed to use the word foot. Or bend. If you have no idea what "A6" is then you havent bothered to take four seconds to look it up once when it would take the person typing four seconds EVERY TIME to type it out, so yes, the burden should definitely be on them to type it out every time and not on you to look it up once. That was sarcasm in case you missed it.

[logman]

Originally Posted by TimG3394

This is from Erik's Big List of Golf Terminology

These "A" positions stand for "alignments" and will often be written as "P." Since launching 5 Simple Keys we've changed our use of these terms to "A."

A1: Address

A2: Club shaft parallel to the ground on the takeaway

A3: Lead arm parallel to the ground on the takeaway

A4: Top of backswing

A5: Lead arm parallel to the ground on the downswing

A6: Club shaft parallel to ground on the downswing

A7: Impact

A8: Club shaft parallel to ground on follow-through.

A9: Right arm parallel to ground on follow-through.

A10: Finish

http://thesandtrap.com/a/big-list-of-golf-terminology

So, Is this A1 tru to A10 a Sand trap thing of a 5 easy golf swing keys thing? Is this an Erik thing?

But in any case wouldn't it be easier understood  if you had a different designation for backswing....and downswing.

And also, there are 4 positions from address to top of backswing????? that's a bit basic isn't it??? how do you describe something that happens at A 2.7?? wouldn't it be easier to say B(for backswing) half past 4.

Also, this A1 to 10 crap is based on 1 swing style, a style where the club and arm hinge at the wrist.....I don't swing like that. My arm hinge is at the elbow and my wrist is locked. So when I pick up the club I go from A1(address) straight to A3. For my swing A2 and A3 are the same thing ie. the front forearm and the club shaft are one thing.

Also, my front upper arm never gets to a A3 position. I would say it gets to 4.30 or 5 o'clock (I'm left).

I think we need to change terminologies to be understood and to fit in with other golf instuction sites.

[logman]

Originally Posted by Phil McGleno

Next we should stop using things like "ankles" and just say "bend that piece that connects your foot and the bottom part of your leg to one another" of course that s if we are still allowed to use the word foot. Or bend. If you have no idea what "A6" is then you havent bothered to take four seconds to look it up once when it would take the person typing four seconds EVERY TIME to type it out, so yes, the burden should definitely be on them to type it out every time and not on you to look it up once. That was sarcasm in case you missed it.

Yep, sarcasm isn't your strong suit Phil, maybe stick to hitting the ball. Your "ankles" analogy is proving my point not yours. I'm saying call it something that everybody can understand and work through. I'm saying call it "ankles"....... you're saying.......or TST is saying call it "A7", why? because it just is.

It would make as much sense to call the positions after posters on TST: so the golf swing would go

Lucius wooding at address....on to the Jamo, then the Phil mcgleno, and the golfingdad at the top.

And anyway what is "A"

And why are there 10

[Ernest Jones]

Originally Posted by logman

So, Is this A1 tru to A10 a Sand trap thing of a 5 easy golf swing keys thing? Is this an Erik thing?

But in any case wouldn't it be easier understood  if you had a different designation for backswing....and downswing.

And also, there are 4 positions from address to top of backswing????? that's a bit basic isn't it??? how do you describe something that happens at A 2.7?? wouldn't it be easier to say B(for backswing) half past 4.

Also, this A1 to 10 crap is based on 1 swing style, a style where the club and arm hinge at the wrist.....I don't swing like that. My arm hinge is at the elbow and my wrist is locked. So when I pick up the club I go from A1(address) straight to A3. For my swing A2 and A3 are the same thing ie. the front forearm and the club shaft are one thing.

Also, my front upper arm never gets to a A3 position. I would say it gets to 4.30 or 5 o'clock (I'm left).

I think we need to change terminologies to be understood and to fit in with other golf instuction sites.

You need to find an LPG site as you quite clearly have a hard-on for anyone who is too ignorant to be using LPG. I personally don't follow much of the P and A discussions simply because the mechanical approach doesn't work well for me, but, TO EACH HIS OWN, even LPG is fine in my books. Whatever -  do what you like, but don't get all pissy just because the world (or this site) isn't catering to your personal POV.

So you don't hinge your wrist, weird but go right ahead.

[inthehole]

Originally Posted by Harmonious

I agree.  Almost every time I start to read about A this or P that, I just go to the next thread.

me too - goes on the subliminal ignore list immediately

[iacas]

Originally Posted by logman

So, Is this A1 tru to A10 a Sand trap thing of a 5 easy golf swing keys thing? Is this an Erik thing?

Nope. They've been around for quite awhile. If anything they might be a MORAD thing.

Originally Posted by logman

But in any case wouldn't it be easier understood  if you had a different designation for backswing....and downswing.

They already have that. A6 is on the downswing. You're being argumentative just for the sake of being argumentative. Having different "designations" would do nothing. So instead of A1-A10 we'd have one for address/setup, one for the backswing, one for the position at the top, one for the downswing, and another designation for impact and/or the follow-through?

Originally Posted by logman

And also, there are 4 positions from address to top of backswing????? that's a bit basic isn't it??? how do you describe something that happens at A 2.7?? wouldn't it be easier to say B(for backswing) half past 4.

Let's see which is better short-hand:

A2.7

"B half past 4"

Plus half past 4 makes no sense to me. I'd picture the person as being the center of the clock, which means the shaft (or "hand" of the clock) is pointing at maybe 9:15 or so. So there you go: you called it "half past 4" and that's more confusing. And what if someone is left-handed?

Please. Again, you're just being argumentative for the sake of being argumentative.

Originally Posted by logman

Also, this A1 to 10 crap is based on 1 swing style, a style where the club and arm hinge at the wrist.....I don't swing like that. My arm hinge is at the elbow and my wrist is locked. So when I pick up the club I go from A1(address) straight to A3. For my swing A2 and A3 are the same thing ie. the front forearm and the club shaft are one thing.

No it isn't. There's nothing in the positions that talk about the wrist hinge. Shaft parallel, left arm (upper arm) parallel, top of backswing. None of those have anything to do with your elbow or wrist bending.

And you said we need to "fit in" with other golf instruction sites? First off, no we don't. Second, these happen to be pretty well known among other golf instruction sites. Inventing a bizarre clock system that doesn't even work the same for righties and lefties, now that would be inventing something that nobody else does. And it's more verbose (less shorthand) to boot! Lose-lose.

Originally Posted by logman

And anyway what is "A"

And why are there 10

It's right in the title. Not that difficult: http://thesandtrap.com/t/53724/the-ps-positions-or-as-alignments-in-the-golf-swing . There are 10 because 10 are useful. There's not really a good 11th position and 9 doesn't describe enough positions (though we rarely talk about A9 or A10).

Originally Posted by Ernest Jones

So you don't hinge your wrist, weird but go right ahead.

Plus he probably does hinge his wrists - he just doesn't think he does it.

Originally Posted by inthehole

me too - goes on the subliminal ignore list immediately

That's your choice, but I think you're missing out on a lot of good information. It's just shorthand for a few commonly discussed spots in the golf swing.

[saevel25]

Honestly i would have created a system like,

B1-5

D1-5

B for backswing

D for downswing

Just to make it a bit easier to understand, instead of remembering 6 is the downswing.

But its fine, i don't mind learning something new. This whole idea, "Well this is the way i think about it i shouldn't have to learn something new," is a bit selfish i think. These guys put a lot of effort into this website and methods to help a lot of people play golf better. I think in the learning process of a new swing you could try to learn there terminology.

This is like a college QB saying to a new coach, "Ok, i don't care what names or signals you use for your system, your going to change it all to match what i know." Which doesn't happen, the college QB must relearn terminology and signals from the new coach. Honestly its better that way, why, because it gets you to concentrate more on the subject matter, and understand it more deeply.

[LuciusWooding]

Well hold on guys, this whole idea of naming the golf swing after me doesn't sound like such a bad idea...