Opinion on pros and cons of private club membership

[phan52]

As I've stated on previous posts, I belong to a private club in the Philly suburbs. There are a lot of great private tracks in the area and there are varying degrees of cost to join. The top ones are relatively prohibitive from a privacy standpoint and, besides being ridiculously expensive, you can't just apply, you need to be sponsored by multiple members to even get an interview. Our club is pretty inclusive and, while it is relatively expensive, I love the camaraderie and the fact that we spend whatever necessary to keep out classic track in shape.

The Golf Association of Philadelphia has a great team match program every spring and thousands of golfers get to compete in a round robin event against other clubs in the area, which stretches from the Poconos to the Jersey Shore (see attached link). Consider that there are 12 players on each one of those teams and that will give you an idea of how big it is.

http://www.gapgolf.org/GTMFinalScores.asp?id=17&pid;=2&dor;=0&cmd;=byr&evid;=1856&wk;=3

I try to play in it every year and usually will play away in order to take advantage of playing other great tracks for nothing. In recent years the GAP has started to allow public and daily fee courses to put together golf teams and join in the tournament, greatly increasing the number of players. I generally have no problem with that, as there are some pretty good public golf courses in the area. But I think they have gone overboard and allowed some pretty sketchy tracks into the fold. I had to play away on Sunday, at a track that will remain nameless, and it was a poor experience. None of the grass had been cut, the tees and fairways were like our rough, and the greens were like putting on our fairways. You would think that they would at least try to put their best foot forward for the GAP team matches, but they clearly don't care. They also had extensive ice damage to the greens and, if it had been our course, at least eight of the greens would have been closed. I would have much preferred to play with my buddies at my home course.

[RH31]

I used to play in those GAP matches back in the '90's. I played out of clubs in Maryland and Delaware. Sometimes the away course was great,

sometimes not so great. The club in Md. that I belonged to was a nice course, great shape and all that, but the "dinner" that they served afterwards was embarrassing.

Really fun thing to be a part of though.

[BuckeyeNut]

Those that rave about private course "fast play" are full of #@#!   LOL

Private or public is not relevant...............all that matters is if the course is empty or not.   Since I am a buckeye, lets look at 2 elite well known central Ohio Courses............Tartan Fields, and Jacks Muirfield Village. (neighbor golf clubs)  Both high end private courses..........Tee off at 11am on Saturday at either and you are stuck behind the same garbage slow play as any public course.   Do members police themselves?    HECK NO....they paid to join, and they figure they own the place.

I agree a struggling private course in need of members has a better pace of play for obvious reasons.....they lack golfers and the course is near empty.   In contrast, every private course with thriving memberships..........play is just as slow as a muni if you play during prime time.   If you want to play fast anywhere, you had better be a member of the dawn patrol.   Rant off...

....have you read the articles about Jordan wanting to build his own course because Seminole is full of slow hackers?  LOL....Tigers home course. People that play fast play early.....maybe MJ should get his AZZ out of bed earlier while visiting.  LOL

[gt6974a]

I think a private membership decision has more to do with where you live and your lifestyle as they both correlate directly with the economic side of the decision.

I'm 36, started playing junior golf on a private course at 10 years old.  My dad moved us into this exclusive neighborhood in 1988 that was brand spanking new.  Initiation cost was $15K plus monthly dues and food minimum.  At the time, it was great, 3 kids playing golf and both parents.  Also had swim/tennis though you could opt for only the swim/tennis fee.  Guest play rates were ridiculous.

Fast forward to today, the course is still very nice, but my Dad has quit and rejoined the course several times.  There's now no initiation fee, dues are relatively reasonable now, but there's still a monthly $250 food cost.  However, instead of just a CC, the HOA built their own Swim/Tennis facility so you can join that and not even have to join the CC swim/tennis.  Weird but nice.

There's now a few private courses very close by and a public course that I live next to that is very nice, http://www.cobblestonegolf.com/ I pay for a Cobb County Card at $100 for the year and get $20 knocked of the $65 rate each round.  Which $65 is expensive in this area where you can find deals for $35-$45 if you're willing to drive more than 10 miles.

Now, a company called Canongate which is now http://www.clubcorpatlanta.com/members-atlanta.html has bought up several former private/single owner courses, so now, you buy their membership with a home course and can play the other courses.  Still expensive.

Most people have to work, and they have to work M-F, 9-5 and they have families and kids with other activities outside of golf, so financially a private membership doesn't make sense if you look strictly at the numbers.

If you value the club stuff, then go for it.  If you're like me and you're having to squeeze golf in, it'd be ludicrous to buy a membership, even if I lived inside the CC.  I'd much rather get a steak at Ruth's Chris than the CC to meet my $250 food minimum.  Just for the golf break down, it would be 5-6 rounds a month (every month including winter) to break even compared to local courses, which is actually not bad now, used to be alot more.

I'll stick to no CC/membership for now.  We just have several courses now, with great deals, compared to when I grew up playing.  Maybe in 8 years when my kids are old enough, and into golf enough to bleed me dry, I'll think about a membership.

To each their own, but I'd definitely trial for a year no strings attached and read the quit/sell policy.  I know for my dad's $15K policy they would only allow one sell for every new member, so basically it was worthless by then.  But he is a member again :)

[newtogolf]

Those that rave about private course "fast play" are full of #@#!   LOL

Private or public is not relevant...............all that matters is if the course is empty or not.   Since I am a buckeye, lets look at 2 elite well known central Ohio Courses............Tartan Fields, and Jacks Muirfield Village. (neighbor golf clubs)  Both high end private courses..........Tee off at 11am on Saturday at either and you are stuck behind the same garbage slow play as any public course.   Do members police themselves?    HECK NO....they paid to join, and they figure they own the place.

I agree a struggling private course in need of members has a better pace of play for obvious reasons.....they lack golfers and the course is near empty.   In contrast, every private course with thriving memberships..........play is just as slow as a muni if you play during prime time.   If you want to play fast anywhere, you had better be a member of the dawn patrol.   Rant off...

....have you read the articles about Jordan wanting to build his own course because Seminole is full of slow hackers?  LOL....Tigers home course. People that play fast play early.....maybe MJ should get his AZZ out of bed earlier while visiting.  LOL

That may be the case in your area but at my club they time you during prime hours when you head out and when you get back.  If you're the first cart to get back in more than 4:15 you are warned about slow play and the players names in the group are recorded.  If you are warned three times you can be suspended for 2 weeks.

[ay33660]

Those that rave about private course "fast play" are full of #@#!   LOL

I disagree with your statement.

My course (private) has a very strict pace of play policy -

" Please be reminded that the Club’s new Pace of Play Policy is now in effect. The expected Pace of Play is four (4) hours, ten (10) minutes. The time clock at the Golf Shop will be used as the official record of each group’s time. Each group will be responsible to have their timecard punched at the start and finish of their round. For additional information on this policy, please review pages 11 & 12 of your 2015 Member Roster. Please note that your confirmed Tee Time is the time that the group should be leaving the first tee rather than the time the group arrives at the tee. Following this practice will help the flow and pace of play throughout the day. ~ Thank you. "

We utillize a time clock and timecards with the member of each group noted on the time cards.

Board of Director resolution -

" It was M/S/C that, as of May 1, 2015, the consequences for not complying with the Pace of Play Policy be as follows: First Offence – The Member(s) in question will receive a “friendly” letter/email from the General Manager reminding them of the Slow Play Policy, including the requirement for all Members to comply with the Club’s desired Pace of Play, and suggestions on “picking up the pace.” Second Offence – All Members of any group who have been sent a first offence notice will be sent a letter stating that this is their second notice and reminded that a third offence will result in suspension of playing privileges. Third Offence - Suspension of playing privileges for one (1) week. Fourth Offence - Suspension of playing for one (1) month. Fifth Offence - Suspension of playing privileges for (3) three months. "

Not turning in a time slip is the same as not meeting the "pace of play".

We do not have a pace of play issue.

So you are the one full of # @#!  LOL

[kpaulhus]

Pace of play at my course is kept in very good order. Members are always willing to let a faster group play through. Also, now that I've been to 3 other clubs with friends, each one is different in its own way. One is younger families and much more relaxed with a decent golf course. My club is a bit stiffer and "country club" but the course is always in immaculate shape as we host an LPGA tournament. I'll take better golf vs the actual club amenities

[jsgolfer]

I disagree with your statement.

My course (private) has a very strict pace of play policy -

"Please be reminded that the Club’s new Pace of Play Policy is now in effect. The expected Pace of Play is four (4) hours, ten (10) minutes. The time clock at the Golf Shop will be used as the official record of each group’s time. Each group will be responsible to have their timecard punched at the start and finish of their round. For additional information on this policy, please review pages 11 & 12 of your 2015 Member Roster. Please note that your confirmed Tee Time is the time that the group should be leaving the first tee rather than the time the group arrives at the tee. Following this practice will help the flow and pace of play throughout the day. ~ Thank you. "

We utillize a time clock and timecards with the member of each group noted on the time cards.

Board of Director resolution -

"It was M/S/C that, as of May 1, 2015, the consequences for not complying with the Pace of Play Policy be as follows: First Offence – The Member(s) in question will receive a “friendly” letter/email from the General Manager reminding them of the Slow Play Policy, including the requirement for all Members to comply with the Club’s desired Pace of Play, and suggestions on “picking up the pace.” Second Offence – All Members of any group who have been sent a first offence notice will be sent a letter stating that this is their second notice and reminded that a third offence will result in suspension of playing privileges. Third Offence - Suspension of playing privileges for one (1) week. Fourth Offence - Suspension of playing for one (1) month. Fifth Offence - Suspension of playing privileges for (3) three months."

Not turning in a time slip is the same as not meeting the "pace of play".

We do not have a pace of play issue.

So you are the one full of #@#!  LOL

Our course has the same policy, except the time is kept by the starter (and the on course marshal) as the groups come off the 9th hole and groups are informed if they are behind their time (And our marshal will monitor their progress if they don't catch up).  Our pace of play policy is 4 hours and 15 minutes, and the  only time it's ever been an issue is during a tournament.

We've had groups which have been banned from having a morning tee time for not playing within the required time.

[imsys0042]

Unless someone teed off before 8:30am on a weekend and took 6 hours, no one would say anything at my club, and even then they would never ban anyone.   There is virtually no enforcement of the rules at my club.   What does happen is that self-policing of the membership has been done by people yelling at the group in front of them.   Unfortunately what usually happens is that because out of the 27 holes at my club, you can only see the current hole you are playing...and frequently you cannot see the whole hole from the tee since there are a lot of dog legs.

Taking a step back from the title of this thread, something very important to consider is the culture of the club.   Like companies, courses have their own identity shaped by the members and staff.   I was at the Mother's Day brunch with my in-laws yesterday and my in-laws arrived 15 minutes before us.   They sat by the door and when we were done commented on how un-friendly people seemed.   Anyone considering a membership see  if they have some type of discovery or trial membership to get a feel for the people there.

[Jim Ludden]

At my club here in Kingwood, Tx. We have a stated time of 4:15 printed on the scorecards. Even on the weekends between 7:30-11am the is never anyone close to 4:15. At the busiest time 4 hours would be a max. Anyone taking longer than that would be visited quickly and ask to move up to the proper position on the course. We are lucky in that we only have about 250 golfing members here so pace of play is never an issue

[jsgolfer]

Unless someone teed off before 8:30am on a weekend and took 6 hours, no one would say anything at my club, and even then they would never ban anyone.   There is virtually no enforcement of the rules at my club.   What does happen is that self-policing of the membership has been done by people yelling at the group in front of them.   Unfortunately what usually happens is that because out of the 27 holes at my club, you can only see the current hole you are playing...and frequently you cannot see the whole hole from the tee since there are a lot of dog legs. Taking a step back from the title of this thread, something very important to consider is the culture of the club.   Like companies, courses have their own identity shaped by the members and staff.   I was at the Mother's Day brunch with my in-laws yesterday and my in-laws arrived 15 minutes before us.   They sat by the door and when we were done commented on how un-friendly people seemed.   Anyone considering a membership see  if they have some type of discovery or trial membership to get a feel for the people there.

When we joined our course, the people went out of their way to welcome us. There are a few stand-offish people but for the most part I've never had an issue. And when we've had guests show up before us they are always treated like Members.

[imsys0042]

When we joined our course, the people went out of their way to welcome us. There are a few stand-offish people but for the most part I've never had an issue. And when we've had guests show up before us they are always treated like Members.

That's good that you've had that experience.   I didn't, but I was generally pulled in w/o knowing anyone except my neighbor and I wish I had spent more time before signing up.   Every club is different.   The guests I've brought have had a positive experience as well.   These things can be cyclic as well.   Someone who joined two years ago had been there a lot as a guest and held off because he felt like the place was worse then.   He's found a nice bunch of guys to play with, I play with them sometimes, and it works out that way.

We are capped at 650 full golf members, btw.   We were at 640 early last year, 2014   Enough people had concerns , issues or a few moved out of the area that the number was 576 at the end of 2014.   Hopefully the trend is upward with nice people joining.   But the club needs to do more for new members to help them along since anyone who can pay the dues can join (you are not required to know anybody there prior to joining).   I'm not alone in thinking that once the check was cashed that they stopped caring if you were happy; and a club that large is very cliquish.

[tdiii]

The bold is what I was referring to before a poster took offense.  I don't feel comfortable either.   It's not their fault. It's more on me.   B/c much of our past experience is so different, other than golf, there isn't much common things for me to socialize with them.   I experienced real hunger, grew up in poor neighborhood, ran into fights, had abusive family members, and faced other hardships.  Those things shaped everything that is me today and I get lost when I am put in a social setting with people from vastly different background.   Private golf clubs are full of members whom I can't really relate to, try I may.   So, that played into my ultimately not joining a country club.   I may one day if all the planets align but not today.

I hear what you are saying, but I think you could be guilty of prejudging the CC set.  Scratch the surface a bit, and you find lots of successful people who made it from nothing.  Sure, the stereotypical CC types exist. But that's

Well said and very true! - Reminds me of college frats to a degree - I used to have really strong feelings about this and hated that culture for what I perceived it to be...  Why pay for friends, right?

My perception has completely changed over the years.  For a long time I was jealous of those that were born into money or had financial advantages that I didn't have coming up.  I felt like they came off standoffish, entitled, preppy, and had everything handed to them.  I refused to join a frat in college because I felt like it was paying for friendship (and I was already friends with many of them anyway).  I felt the same about country clubs and honestly disliked golf as a young man in high school because I didn't feel that I fit in...  Lucky for me, my baseball coach got me to play for the high school golf team (free golf- He was the coach and our team sucked and needed players lol), and the local head pro asked me if I wanted to work at the course (more free golf)... Didn't know when I was 15 that golf would be one reason I went to college - I didn't know that it would lead to a job - didn't know that having the right references and connections would land me career opportunities etc...  all through golf (and that at 15, I was reluctant to call myself a golfer - No I was a baseball player that happened to play golf)...

It's funny looking back at how ignorant and misguided my assumptions were...  It's almost like I didn't want to be part of "that" group because I would be perceived as having everything handed to me...   As a teenager, when your close friends think you are not being loyal or that you are being "fake" because you put yourself in a position around people that you are different from....  It's hard to not get stuck in the same routine.  I almost was embarrassed to say I played on the golf team for a while or that I worked at the golf course because of the perception and stereotype held by many of my close friends and the people I grew up with.  Those friends would have my back for anything in any situation and they didn't play golf - they thought all golfers had everything handed to them and they didn't have to work for anything, (What JP, you think your better than us?)... Sports exposed me to so many people and kept me out of so much trouble - It's funny to think that if I hadn't played golf, If I hadn't met those people at the golf course - I might not have went to college, or chose to major in Sport Management, or be in a career field that I love.

As I got into my career, I began to understand more that being around successful people, you learn what makes them successful - You build relationships with people - You become a resource for them as they do for you..... You network!

They say "it's not what you know but who you know"...  but it's really who knows you... -Life's about building relationships right?

Excellent post.  It is nice to surround yourself with like minded people; i.e., people who are in love with the game enough to make the serious financial commitment a cc entails.  There will certainly be folks you don't click with, but there will also be folks whose company you sincerely enjoy.  And if they learn about what you do in the process and that leads to business, fantastic.