The 2013 Tampa Bay Championship Presented by Everbank Discussion Thread

[boogielicious]

Streelman played very aggressive down the stretch, which is why he won.  Leonard had a shot, but missed a couple of green when he really needed to.  I am not a fan of religious references, but I don't hold fault over it.  He seemed really nervous in the interview.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by boogielicious

Streelman played very aggressive down the stretch, which is why he won.  Leonard had a shot, but missed a couple of green when he really needed to.  I am not a fan of religious references, but I don't hold fault over it.  He seemed really nervous in the interview.

There's a fine line between 'aggressive' and 'careless' and he was walking pretty close to it.  The shot on the par 3 over the water (13, I believe) was pretty impressive.  But if he pushes it a little, or leaves it short a little, then we're looking at a possible bogey or even worse.  If he plays aggressively and loses, then that also becomes the reason why he lost.  "Aw, he was careless," "He knows he shouldn't be going for those pins with the lead," "blah, blah, etc, etc."  However, if you are going to play aggressive and actually hit the shots, then you deserve the win.  Congrats to Streelman.

[boogielicious]

Good point.  Two feet to the right and the shot on 13 is in the trap or bouncing into the water.  I think of "being aggressive" as taking the risk knowing what the outcome is if you miss.  If you pull it off, you are a hero.  If not, a goat.

[Chas]

Streelman's tee shot on the 18th said a lot (no backing down to a 3W despite narrow fwy), that's real confidence in your driver. Man does he have a wide stance with driver so serious rate of weight shift moving to the left foot. Me, I'm reducing stance width a tad to make sure I get the shift fully done in time. If I don't all hell breaks loose.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by boogielicious

Good point.  Two feet to the right and the shot on 13 is in the trap or bouncing into the water.  I think of "being aggressive" as taking the risk knowing what the outcome is if you miss.  If you pull it off, you are a hero.  If not, a goat.

I agree.  I also tend to like watching guys that continue to play the same way regardless of the situation.  Some would construe it as careless, but like you said, if you pull it off, you're the hero.  The way I look at it, there are 4 possibliities for a leader coming down the stretch:

1.  Continue to play aggressively and win.

2.  Play "safe" and still win.

3.  Continue to play aggressively and lose.

4.  Try to play "safe" and lose.

Switching to a "prevent" defense and still losing is the worst option, by far.  If you're going to go down, might as well go down swinging. :)

P.S.  I've noticed that this option 4 applies to me a lot lately when I'm trying to be smart on certain holes and use an iron off the tee on a par 4 or 5 just to get it in the fairway.  I still miss, and now I'm 50 yards further away than if I just missed with the driver like normal.

[Beachcomber]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

P.S.  I've noticed that this option 4 applies to me a lot lately when I'm trying to be smart on certain holes and use an iron off the tee on a par 4 or 5 just to get it in the fairway.  I still miss, and now I'm 50 yards further away than if I just missed with the driver like normal.

You gotta love this game! I hit a 5HY off a tee this weekend, had 118yds to the pin over a water hazard remaining.  And had a brain fart/memory lapse on how to hit a golf shot.  Proceeded to hit into the hazard on my 2nd shot.

All this made me think... Why didn't I just bomb a drive off the tee?  I probably would've been in the water off the tee - and only been hitting 3.  Instead I hit into the water on my 2nd shot, and was hitting 4!!

The worst part... I hit my 4th shot to 2ft.  And missed the putt for bogey.  Ended up with a dOOb-Lay.

[newtogolf]

I'm agnostic but I don't get upset or offended when I hear golfers or any athletes makes references to their religion or god as long as they don't get pushy about it.

Golf is a very mental sport, Streelman likely finds comfort in discussing scripture and it probably helps to take his mind off of the pressure he's feeling about the upcoming shot.  We all have a place inside our heads we go to find comfort, whether it's to think about our loved ones, or past memory, etc, Streelman's happens to be his faith.

I didn't feel during the interview that Steelman was pushing his religion down our throats, he was asked how he dealt with the pressure and he provided an answer.

[Old1964]

Originally Posted by Rick Martin

sorry, Old1964, I didn't see your post before posting the link to the Streelman commercial. Thanks for posting the blooper video.

No problem - I missed your thread when I made my first comment - someone wisely moved my post over here for me.

At any rate, I'm glad Streelman  pulled it out for the win.  I am often intrigued by how a win seems to help the players play with more confidence in the next few tournaments.

As for the religion thing...I find it humorous that if a person celebrates their own "awesomeness" and how "amazing" they are because they are the "boss", that is culturally acceptable in many countries. In other countries, that kind of egocentric celebration would be considered crass, classless, and utterly selfish. Indeed, objectively, it is selfish, self-indulgent, and self-centered.

If, on the other hand, a person demonstrates some humility (for real or imagined reasons) and believes that they owe their success in some sense to whoever or whatever makes their heart beat, nervous system work, or their thinking clear and calm, they get accused of being selfish.  Though I've never heard any religious person (Hindu, Christian, Islamic, Buddhist) claim that they succeeded and others lost because they were favored, that is the narrative that is told about them.

Whatever. To each their own.

On a funny note, I have played in a couple tournaments where I was convinced that the golf gods were working against me...so, not sure what to make of that!

[walk18]

Yeah I'll echo others in that I wanted to feel good for streelman, but when he started to thank god and the scriptures, I felt more like throwing up in my mouth a little.

[Dave H]

Originally Posted by walk18

Yeah I'll echo others in that I wanted to feel good for streelman, but when he started to thank god and the scriptures, I felt more like throwing up in my mouth a little.

But what if he had said, "I'd like to thank my psychologist, he helped me stay focused at the end. It was my belief in his system that really made the difference." Would you still feel like throwing up a bit? What would the difference be?

[Chas]

Look I'm a lifelong atheist but I never understood all the personal hostility directed towards believers by some. The guy is entitled to his beliefs and if they motivate him to do good things, in golf or in life, what's the big problem? He wouldn't be honest to himself or us if he didn't say something about his religion at such a moment in his life. Good for him. Let's be clear: there are far, far worse things that some people believe in. Just look around you guys, this world isn't so pretty and that's in part because of some of the thoughts of mankind that have nothing to do with religion - on the contrary. \lecture

[Dave2512]

I suppose if there's a difference it's that some go too far with it. When it starts to sound like a fanatical recruiting speech etc. If a person's faith is that strong it shouldn't require constant affirmation. I have friends that are professional religious people, priests, nuns, christian brothers, active and former, that never go out of their way to mention it in casual situations amongst strangers.

I quit my last instructor because of this. Every time we met he couldn't help asking me something based in religion. Where I thought I'd go when I die, what happens. His emails responses to the videos I sent him had some christian message in the signature every time. He persisted despite me telling him I was there for golf instruction only. He chose to ignore me and he lost my business.

[walk18]

But what if he had said, "I'd like to thank my psychologist, he helped me stay focused at the end. It was my belief in his system that really made the difference." Would you still feel like throwing up a bit? What would the difference be?

I guess the difference would be that the psychologist is real.

[Ernest Jones]

I guess the difference would be that the psychologist is real.

ZING!

[Chas]

I suppose if there's a difference it's that some go too far with it. When it starts to sound like a fanatical recruiting speech etc. If a person's faith is that strong it shouldn't require constant affirmation. I have friends that are professional religious people, priests, nuns, christian brothers, active and former, that never go out of their way to mention it in casual situations amongst strangers. I quit my last instructor because of this. Every time we met he couldn't help asking me something based in religion. Where I thought I'd go when I die, what happens. His emails responses to the videos I sent him had some christian message in the signature every time. He persisted despite me telling him I was there for golf instruction only. He chose to ignore me and he lost my business.

That all sounds reasonable, but just how much do we know about the golfer we're talking about here? Maybe he's as fervent as an evangelist but maybe his words on winning his first pro tourney mostly reflected this life-changing event. I wouldn't know.

[Dave H]

Originally Posted by walk18

I guess the difference would be that the psychologist is real.

For many, God is just as real, or even much more real. Believe what you want of course, but it's a fact that the Word of God has certainly been around much long than any psychologist.

[Wisguy]

Originally Posted by Dave H

For many, God is just as real, or even much more real. Believe what you want of course, but it's a fact that the Word of God has certainly been around much long than any psychologist.

Nonsense.  They want god to be real, but no one is 100% certain of the existence of a supreme being, no matter how hard they thump that bible, because there has been absolutely no credible proof that a deity exists since... well, biblical times (and if one took a crack team of forensic scientists, experts in medicine, physics, engineering, geology, meterology, etc... back in history, you know that they would have an absolutely plausible, scientific explanation for every miracle attributed to a deity).

A few years back a door-to-door evangelist bothered me and my family as we were about to take our dog for a walk.  He came up to me and demanded "Is it important to you to be able to spend the rest of eternity with your family?"  I told him no, that it was important to spend every living day with my family.  He responded "Well I believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and I know that I will be spending eternity in heaven with my family."  I told him that no, he did not know what will happen after he dies because no one knows and I told him that if he was so confident his beliefs were correct, he wouldn't be out trying to convince other people of it and reduce his own insecurities about his beliefs through comfort in numbers.  He didn't say anything - it was clear from the look on his face that I was right - and he just walked away.

If an atheist athlete announced in a post-match interview "I attribute my concentration that lead to the win today to my knowledge that there is no reliable proof of any sort that any deity exists and that if one did exist, it is either not all-powerful or not a good being, or both."  religious people would be outraged.  They would be screaming at the anti-Christian rhetoric (arrogantly forgetting that Christianity isn't the only theistic religion) and would altogether forget that such a statement is simply the non-religous equivalent of the devout athlete's devoting his victory to his god (which they find altogether appropriate).

My mom's best friend and her husband are among the only truly religious people I've ever met who were actually really good, conscientious people.  They never foist their beliefs upon others, they will candidly admit that there is a real degree of uncertainty about any religion including their own, and they are very heavily involved in charitable work through their church, volunteering many hours a week in a fashion that actually helps others (i.e. not just proseltyzing).  If all religious people were like this couple, we'd have no conflicts and issues regarding religion and the world would be a much better place.  One of my favorite quotes is "I like your Christ.  I do not like your Christians.  They are so unlike your Christ."  A rather famous man said that - Mahatma Ghandi.

In my mind, a person's choice of religious beliefs is a personal right, every bit as important as his or her choice of how he or she wants to conduct his or her love life; as long as no one is hurt, no one should be denied the right to exercise those two rights.  But one should keep one's beliefs to oneself or to a like-minded audience because religion is a personal choice.  Just as I do not wish to hear about how my neighbors enjoy using Batman and Robin costumes along with a bucket of Crisco in their bedroom, I also don't need to hear about their religion.  I don't want to hear about how that "quickie" Joe Fundamentalist had that morning with his wife prompted his great final round on the course and I don't want to hear about his damn religion.  Thank the fans, thank the tournament organizers, praise the course and the competition - it's not as if any athlete or coach has every said anything remotely interesting in a post-game interview in the history of sports (except maybe to announce a retirement).  Just keep your personal beliefs personal.

[Wisguy descends from the pulpit]

[RonTheSavage]

I had more of a problem with the Wilson Irons commercial during Streelman's post round interview. That wasnt really a huge deal but it sounded forced to me. I have absolutely no problem with the guy's religious beliefs or anyones for that matter. I am proud to say that I was raised in the church and believe in GOD. My grandfather is the Pastor of my Church and my two uncles are Ministers there.

But I think you can go too far with it like Ray Lewis did this past playoff/Superbowl run. Streelman didnt come close to crossing any lines.