What is your opinion on the "Breakfast Ball"?

[bplewis24]

I vote this thread be moved to the 19th hole forum.  Isn't that where we discuss other sports?

[dsc123]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

I posted my own right above your last post.  I said:

You are essentially competing if you set a goal for the round.  That goal can be quite lofty, such as first place in a tournament, or it can be pedestrian, like trying to finish with fewer than 36 putts, simply to play by the rules for handicap reporting.  In any case you need a standard to play to in order to measure this round against any previous round, and the only real standard a golfer has is the rule book.  A goal has no meaning if the standard changes from round to round depending on a whim.

how do you square that with 3-1?  Do you just chalk it up to imperfect drafting?

A stroke-play competition consists of competitors completing each hole of a stipulated round or rounds and, for each round, returning a score card on which there is a gross score for each hole. Each competitor is playing against every other competitor in the competition.

[Phil McGleno]

There is not hing to square the rule covers stroke play competitions the rules of golf cover all of golf.[quote name="dsc123" url="/t/68061/what-is-your-opinion-on-the-breakfast-ball/144#post_863735"] how do you square that with 3-1?  Do you just chalk it up to imperfect drafting? [SIZE=12px]A stroke-play competition consists of [/SIZE] competitors [SIZE=12px] completing each hole of a[/SIZE] stipulated round [SIZE=12px] or rounds and, for each round, returning a score card on which there is a gross score for each hole. Each [/SIZE] competitor [SIZE=12px] is playing against every other [/SIZE] competitor [SIZE=12px] in the competition.[/SIZE] [/quote]

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by dsc123

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fourputt

I posted my own right above your last post.  I said:

You are essentially competing if you set a goal for the round.  That goal can be quite lofty, such as first place in a tournament, or it can be pedestrian, like trying to finish with fewer than 36 putts, simply to play by the rules for handicap reporting.  In any case you need a standard to play to in order to measure this round against any previous round, and the only real standard a golfer has is the rule book.  A goal has no meaning if the standard changes from round to round depending on a whim.

how do you square that with 3-1?  Do you just chalk it up to imperfect drafting?

A stroke-play competition consists of competitors completing each hole of astipulated round or rounds and, for each round, returning a score card on which there is a gross score for each hole. Each competitor is playing against every other competitor in the competition.

I try not to overthink these things.  Any time I'm not playing a match, I'm playing stroke play, therefore I'm subject to those rules, regardless of whether it's a formal competition or not.  That's all I need to know.  I am then a competitor, even if my only competition is me.  I'm playing against every other competitor, even though that number is zero.  Thus I satisfy the requirement.

You want to take it a bit farther in the overthinking department?  The rule says: " Each competitor is playing against every other competitor in the competition." How do you square that with a flighted stroke play tournament where you are only competing against the 30 other guys in your flight, not the 110 guys in other flights?  They are all still competing in the same tournament, but only against a limited number of the other competitors.

[J Witt]

I have been playing golf with the same group of guys for a long time now and a 2nd ball off the first tee has always been an option if needed. It's usually for a duffed shot, a shank, or a ball that goes out of bounds. We are out there to have fun and it sure makes a difference to be laying good off the 1st tee. With that being said, if a player hits the ball solid and is in a fairway bunker, deep rough, or in some other sort of lousy lie than the 2nd ball is not allowed.

[iceman777]

Never heard of it . None of the public courses we play have ranges , but there are starters who will not allow a 2nd ball . Not a terrible concept if you haven't even had time to warm up , kind of like a "first one in " in a tennis serve . Think it's just too time consuming and a pain for those waiting to tee off on crowded days .

[Ernest Jones]

Originally Posted by iceman777

Never heard of it . None of the public courses we play have ranges , but there are starters who will not allow a 2nd ball . Not a terrible concept if you haven't even had time to warm up , kind of like a "first one in " in a tennis serve . Think it's just too time consuming and a pain for those waiting to tee off on crowded days .

For the most part I've been trying to stay out of the fray on this one but I will just point out, purely from a pace of play standpoint as I'm fairly certain that the "breakfast ballers" aren't playing by the strict rules anyway, allowing someone to hit a breakfast ball is likely quicker than waiting for him to find the first one depending on how bad the first one was...

[saevel25]

Originally Posted by Ernest Jones

For the most part I've been trying to stay out of the fray on this one but I will just point out, purely from a pace of play standpoint as I'm fairly certain that the "breakfast ballers" aren't playing by the strict rules anyway, allowing someone to hit a breakfast ball is likely quicker than waiting for him to find the first one depending on how bad the first one was...

Was on a course, i hit a ball a bit right in to the woods, my dad said just take a mulligan. The starter heard and said, "NO MULLIGAN". He said, it would be crazy if everyone took a mulligan because they would be chasing around the fairway looking for a 2nd ball, and it would slow the whole day down.

Besides the standpoint that its against the rules, its bad for pace of play :p, must keep those 4 hour rounds

[phan52]

Originally Posted by Ernest Jones

For the most part I've been trying to stay out of the fray on this one but I will just point out, purely from a pace of play standpoint as I'm fairly certain that the "breakfast ballers" aren't playing by the strict rules anyway, allowing someone to hit a breakfast ball is likely quicker than waiting for him to find the first one depending on how bad the first one was...

I'm fine with it if he declares a lost ball and is hitting 3 on the tee. But you seriously think he isn't going to go looking for the first ball regardless?

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by phan52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ernest Jones

For the most part I've been trying to stay out of the fray on this one but I will just point out, purely from a pace of play standpoint as I'm fairly certain that the "breakfast ballers" aren't playing by the strict rules anyway, allowing someone to hit a breakfast ball is likely quicker than waiting for him to find the first one depending on how bad the first one was...

I'm fine with it if he declares a lost ball and is hitting 3 on the tee. But you seriously think he isn't going to go looking for the first ball regardless?

This is it.  Just because a guy has played a mulligan (let's call it what it is), he's not going to abandon that first ball without a fight.  Playing a second ball off the first tee does nothing for pace of play.

[Kletus]

Originally Posted by saevel25

Was on a course, i hit a ball a bit right in to the woods, my dad said just take a mulligan. The starter heard and said, "NO MULLIGAN". He said, it would be crazy if everyone took a mulligan because they would be chasing around the fairway looking for a 2nd ball, and it would slow the whole day down.

Besides the standpoint that its against the rules, its bad for pace of play :p, must keep those 4 hour rounds

1.  I would simply have looked at the Starter and told him I was playing my provisional in case I didn't find the first one.

2.  If the course is putting any sort of break between groups like they should... then the extra 20 seconds wouldn't matter.

3.  My normal friday group plays 2 off the first tee and often plays fivesomes.   Yes, it takes a minute or two extra to get off of the first tee... but that also creates a natural space between the groups.  I've found that those rounds flow much smoother with very rare waiting because that buffer is there to absorb a slow hole by the group in front.

Your starter might be surprised.. but I would be willing to bet that if they REQUIRED everyone to hit 2 on the first tee they would probably speed up play.   Of course... there would always be THAT guy that has to look 10 minutes for his topflite in the woods that would still bring everyone back to reality.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by Kletus

Quote:

Originally Posted by saevel25

Was on a course, i hit a ball a bit right in to the woods, my dad said just take a mulligan. The starter heard and said, "NO MULLIGAN". He said, it would be crazy if everyone took a mulligan because they would be chasing around the fairway looking for a 2nd ball, and it would slow the whole day down.

Besides the standpoint that its against the rules, its bad for pace of play :p, must keep those 4 hour rounds

1.  I would simply have looked at the Starter and told him I was playing my provisional in case I didn't find the first one.

2.  If the course is putting any sort of break between groups like they should... then the extra 20 seconds wouldn't matter.

3.  My normal friday group plays 2 off the first tee and often plays fivesomes.   Yes, it takes a minute or two extra to get off of the first tee... but that also creates a natural space between the groups.  I've found that those rounds flow much smoother with very rare waiting because that buffer is there to absorb a slow hole by the group in front.

Your starter might be surprised.. but I would be willing to bet that if they REQUIRED everyone to hit 2 on the first tee they would probably speed up play.   Of course... there would always be THAT guy that has to look 10 minutes for his topflite in the woods that would still bring everyone back to reality.

Are you sure that it isn't because your fivesome is holding up the rest of the course while never coming close to keeping pace with the group in front of you?

[MS256]

Originally Posted by Kletus

I've found that those rounds flow much smoother with very rare waiting because that buffer is there to absorb a slow hole by the group in front.

Ha ha ha ha! Maybe that's our problem with people in front holding us up. We simply aren't creating enough of a "buffer" from the start.

[thescarecrow]

Originally Posted by Kletus

3.  My normal friday group plays 2 off the first tee and often plays fivesomes.   Yes, it takes a minute or two extra to get off of the first tee... but that also creates a natural space between the groups.  I've found that those rounds flow much smoother with very rare waiting because that buffer is there to absorb a slow hole by the group in front.

Five guys hitting a second ball ?, yes, your  group may flow smoother, however, I pity all the groups behind you.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by MS256

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kletus

I've found that those rounds flow much smoother with very rare waiting because that buffer is there to absorb a slow hole by the group in front.

Ha ha ha ha! Maybe that's our problem with people in front holding us up. We simply aren't creating enough of a "buffer" from the start.

Of course meaning that you play from the first tee promptly to allow the next group their turn.  Unlike Kletus whose group takes 10 minutes to finally head out.

[turtleback]

Anyone want to venture any thoughts on why the rules on pre-round practice on the course are different for stroke play and match play?  I've been looking through the USGA Rules site and haven't found anything.  But I have a feeling that the rationale would shed some light on the whole competition issue.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by turtleback

Anyone want to venture any thoughts on why the rules on pre-round practice on the course are different for stroke play and match play?  I've been looking through the USGA Rules site and haven't found anything.  But I have a feeling that the rationale would shed some light on the whole competition issue.

No speculation.  The answer is quite definite.  The reason is because a match is between 2 or at most 4 players.  Since they will all be starting play at the same time, they all have an equal opportunity to practice on the course prior to the start of the match.  A stroke play tournament is played with a large field, with starting times spread out over several hours in many cases.  There simply is no opportunity for all players to have equal access to the tournament course before the competition begins, so they prohibit any players from practicing on the course.

[sacm3bill]

Originally Posted by turtleback

Anyone want to venture any thoughts on why the rules on pre-round practice on the course are different for stroke play and match play?  I've been looking through the USGA Rules site and haven't found anything.  But I have a feeling that the rationale would shed some light on the whole competition issue.

The rationale is that in stroke play, there isn't the same amount of time for each competitor to practice before their round begins.  If for example one competitor had an 11am tee time and another had an 8am, the one with the later time would have more time to practice.

In match play, any opponent you have (either a single person or a two-some for four-ball matches) starts the round at the same time as you, so you all have equal opportunity to practice first.

Edit: I see Rick beat me to it.