Which would you rather do first if you haven't done any.. Hole in one or shoot even par?

[mvmac]

Originally Posted by Slice of Life

My point was, what's perfect about a hole in 1 when you still shoot a 97? lol

lol  Well, even par isn't perfect either

Originally Posted by Jeremie Boop

Eh, there is an element of luck when it comes to any hole in one. Some more than others but all require luck. If I never make par I'd be happy to get at least one of these in my life. I still would be more proud of an even par round than an ace.

Yes, which is why I said:

Originally Posted by mvmac

Yes, hole in ones do require some luck but some of you guys are saying it's ALL luck which I disagree with.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Jeremie Boop

Even shots that look like they are going straight for the pin require luck to go in the hole.

I know. That's why I said "…devoid of MUCH luck…" and not "ALL" luck.

Edit: Mike and I with the similar comments. :) Great minds… ;)

[Jeremie Boop]

Originally Posted by iacas

I know. That's why I said "…devoid of MUCH luck…" and not "ALL" luck.

Edit: Mike and I with the similar comments. :) Great minds… ;)

True, I saw devoid and that equates to 0 in my head by default. You did qualify it with "much" though so it was my fault.

Quote:

Yes, hole in ones do require some luck but some of you guys are saying it's ALL luck which I disagree with.

For some reason I went a little dyslexic on this one and read it as "some hole in ones require luck" instead.. Long day at work, mind is a bit fried.

[mvmac]

Originally Posted by rehmwa

I have different take on perfection in golf.  (But I understand exactly what you mean)

Thanks for getting my take, maybe perfection wasn't the most "perfect" word but don't want to turn this into a semantics thread.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by Spyder

What the hell took you so long!? I was starting to think I was crazy, but your take is exactly what I have been saying. I may still very well be crazy, but at least one other person joined the club now.

LOL ... you're certainly not crazy.  (Although I'm not sure being lumped into a group with Mike helps your argument on that one )

You are simply factoring in the fact that an even par round for you now is unlikely.  I think most of the people who vote even par round are not taking that into account.  We're sort of dreaming.  Like if I said, what would you rather have, a $10,000/year raise at your current job or win $500,000 in the lottery?  You're saying, "well, I don't play the lottery so me ever winning is unlikely, so I'll take the raise."  The rest of us are suspending that disbelief.

[Fore Left]

I encountered a lot of luck on my way to those Even Par / Under par rounds.....   of course I've encountered some of the craziest luck  (good luck)  on terrible rounds too....    Even Par over 18 holes shows a consistent skill.   You're gonna have good AND bad luck during ANY round.   How you utilize it or recover from it,  is where the skill comes in  (in addition to avoiding bad situations, putting yourself in good situations etc)

A hole in one 'can' be a "Fluke"  or it can be a bit of  "aligning of the stars"  after hitting a nice shot......   Either way,  I'm sure I'll be happy if I ever get one,  but the score on the card is far more gratifying/frustrating than any single shot in any single round.

[SloverUT]

Easy question for me and agree with most everyone else.

Even par would be the result of lots of hard work, practice, $$, and time put in to developing a skill set that makes me a better golfer.

I've come close to hitting an ace twice now on shots that I would consider "bad shots" but came close anyway.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by mvmac

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slice of Life

My point was, what's perfect about a hole in 1 when you still shoot a 97? lol

lol  Well, even par isn't perfect either

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeremie Boop

Eh, there is an element of luck when it comes to any hole in one. Some more than others but all require luck. If I never make par I'd be happy to get at least one of these in my life. I still would be more proud of an even par round than an ace.

Yes, which is why I said:

Quote:

Originally Posted by mvmac

Yes, hole in ones do require some luck but some of you guys are saying it's ALL luck which I disagree with.

Along this same vein, If you are skilled enough to shoot even par, you are hitting a lot of good shots.  If you are hitting a lot of good shots, you are giving yourself more and better chances to make an ace.  Still no guarantees, but the more often you hit it close, the more likely it is to just fall in.  So if follows that good players usually make more ace's than bad players.  Both of mine came during the period when I was playing the best golf in my life, even though only one of them was the result of a quality golf shot.

[Wally]

I'd be much happier with even par.  Hole in one is cool but it's just one excellent shot.  In a game that calls for consistency and control, I'd rather have 72 good shots over 1 incredible shot.   Either way I hope there would be plenty of witnesses to both events!

Same goes for me.

[newtogolf]

I selected shooting par.  Hole in one to me is a combo of skill and luck.  While there's some element of luck in shooting even par it doesn't play as big a role, unless of course you shoot a hole in one on the same round you shoot your first par.

[MS256]

I voted for the ace because I seem to be one of the few in our group that hasn't had one. I even saw a guy get one that thinned the heck out of the shot and it rolled almost as far as it flew but went in the hole.

I've been close quite a few times but no luck. One actually had part of the ball hanging over the edge of the hole but it wouldn't fall in. (Where's a little earthquake when you need one?)

I really didn't know what to do with the "shoot even par" option anyway since I've shot under par many times but always with an asterisk that the course rating was always less than 70 (and my home courses). On legitimate courses with a course rating of 72 or higher mid 70s is the best I ever do. Since those are not my home course I don't get a chance to learn the course and redeem myself very often.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by MS256

I voted for the ace because I seem to be one of the few in our group that hasn't had one. I even saw a guy get one that thinned the heck out of the shot and it rolled almost as far as it flew but went in the hole.

I've been close quite a few times but no luck. One actually had part of the ball hanging over the edge of the hole but it wouldn't fall in. (Where's a little earthquake when you need one?)

I really didn't know what to do with the "shoot even par" option anyway since I've shot under par many times but always with an asterisk that the course rating was always less than 70 (and my home courses). On legitimate courses with a course rating of 72 or higher mid 70s is the best I ever do. Since those are not my home course I don't get a chance to learn the course and redeem myself very often.

Why is a course rating of less than 70 a disqualifier?  That rating is intended to apply to a scratch golfer.  Even then it's a bit suspect because I've known near scratch golfers who could never compete on a 7000 yard course.  They simply no longer (or never had) had the length to have a chance at that.  That didn't make what they did on a 6400 yard course any less notable or worthy.  Unless a course is rated under the 113 median slope, I think that par trumps rating.

[Slice of Life]

If I'm shooting even par or better, my chances of a hole in one improve.

[David in FL]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

Why is a course rating of less than 70 a disqualifier?  That rating is intended to apply to a scratch golfer.  Even then it's a bit suspect because I've known near scratch golfers who could never compete on a 7000 yard course.  They simply no longer (or never had) had the length to have a chance at that.  That didn't make what they did on a 6400 yard course any less notable or worthy.  Unless a course is rated under the 113 median slope, I think that par trumps rating.

I think he's saying a par 72 course with a course rating of 68.5.  Shooting 72 there isn't quite the same as shooting 72 at a course with a rating of 71.5.  I might have to think about adding a personal asterisk for an "even par" round that resulted in a differential over 2.   Having said that, par is par for the most part.......18 holes is a long time to hold it together, especially if someone hasn't done it before!

You're also right about the length......7,000 yards is out of the question for me.  Hell, I'll start to struggle much over 6,600 if too much of the length is in the par 4's.  I'm playing a course Sunday with 3 par 4's over 430 yds.  I'm gonna be hitting hybrids (at least) into them.  That gets old in a hurry!

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

Why is a course rating of less than 70 a disqualifier?  That rating is intended to apply to a scratch golfer.  Even then it's a bit suspect because I've known near scratch golfers who could never compete on a 7000 yard course.  They simply no longer (or never had) had the length to have a chance at that.  That didn't make what they did on a 6400 yard course any less notable or worthy.  Unless a course is rated under the 113 median slope, I think that par trumps rating.

I disagree, but the difference is likely because to a lower handicapper, rating trumps both par and slope.

To a higher handicapper, slope can matter more (though the rating still affects them - an 84 is a whole lot better on a 73.2 course than a 67.8 course of even somewhat similar slopes).

[MS256]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

Why is a course rating of less than 70 a disqualifier?  That rating is intended to apply to a scratch golfer.  Even then it's a bit suspect because I've known near scratch golfers who could never compete on a 7000 yard course.  They simply no longer (or never had) had the length to have a chance at that.  That didn't make what they did on a 6400 yard course any less notable or worthy.  Unless a course is rated under the 113 median slope, I think that par trumps rating.

Well mostly because it's not apples to apples when many people on the forum that haven't shot par play on much harder courses than where I played so I don't consider it much of an accomplishment until (or if) I do it on a harder course.

Shooting under the course rating can be compared fairly accurately and that's something I've never done. Closest was when I shot a 76 at Capstone Golf Club (course rating 75.1). Probably the best golf I've ever played but 5 over par.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by MS256

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fourputt

Why is a course rating of less than 70 a disqualifier?  That rating is intended to apply to a scratch golfer.  Even then it's a bit suspect because I've known near scratch golfers who could never compete on a 7000 yard course.  They simply no longer (or never had) had the length to have a chance at that.  That didn't make what they did on a 6400 yard course any less notable or worthy.  Unless a course is rated under the 113 median slope, I think that par trumps rating.

Well mostly because it's not apples to apples when many people on the forum that haven't shot par play on much harder courses than where I played so I don't consider it much of an accomplishment until (or if) I do it on a harder course.

Shooting under the course rating can be compared fairly accurately and that's something I've never done. Closest was when I shot a 76 at Capstone Golf Club (course rating 75.1). Probably the best golf I've ever played but 5 over par.

Well, I'm glad I don't see it that way then, because I'd have to just go pitch my clubs in the trash and take up basket weaving.  My personal best and both of my aces came playing the middle tees, but I guess that no longer matters either.  The longest I've ever averaged with driver was no more than 250 yards (and I'm no where near that now), so playing a 7000 yard course for me would be just plain stupid, and that's about the only way I'll ever find a 72 rating on a par 72 course.  I use slope and rating to apply my handicap, but for me par still is, and always will be par.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

Well, I'm glad I don't see it that way then, because I'd have to just go pitch my clubs in the trash and take up basket weaving.  My personal best and both of my aces came playing the middle tees, but I guess that no longer matters either.  The longest I've ever averaged with driver was no more than 250 yards (and I'm no where near that now), so playing a 7000 yard course for me would be just plain stupid, and that's about the only way I'll ever find a 72 rating on a par 72 course.  I use slope and rating to apply my handicap, but for me par still is, and always will be par.

Yeah, I totally agree with you.  "59" (that number that Tiger flirted with today ;)) is the magic number for elite golfers ... not -13.

That said, I do have my own personal little qualifiers that make certain rounds better or worse though.  My 74 from last summer was on a fairly legitimately rated course (6,431, 70.8, 128) but I don't think that is nearly as good as my 78 this year at Old Works (7,211, 73.4, 131).  Simply because of what it means in relation to my style of game.  Courses that have lots of parallel fairways and little trouble in between them favor my spraying style, so I recognize that when I play well at those types of courses, even if the course rating/slope does not.

However, if I ever shoot even or under par on that first course I will proudly save and frame that scorecard ... cuz like you said, par is par!  (Not counting the par 29 course I play Friday mornings with my co-workers ... I shoot par there all the time and that means nothing ;))