Jump to content
IGNORED

Finchem says PGA Tour is "studying" Call-in Rules Violations


bplewis24
Note: This thread is 3827 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

0  

  1. 1. How do you feel about viewers and spectators calling in rules violations?

    • Agree with it, always have.
      19
    • Agree with it, disagreed before.
      1
    • Disagree with it, but agreed before.
      5
    • Disagree with it, always have.
      58


Recommended Posts

I'm in favor of equal application of the rules.  I'd favor a system whereby every hole on the course had cameras to watched everything the golfer did and ensure they didn't violate the rules.

I'm also okay with going with the trust system in place and disallowing call-in or outside influences to result in penalties.  I'm not okay with Tiger and D.A. Points committing the same rule violation and only Tiger getting penalized because he had 100 more cameras following him and his every action was being broadcast on television.

I'm on board with this.  The first sentence would be "as close to the truth as possible" in my judgement.  Whereas what we have now is "as close to the truth as possible for popular guys and some of the guys in contention on the final day, and not for others."

Brandon a.k.a. Tony Stark

-------------------------

The Fastest Flip in the West

Link to comment
Share on other sites


The thought of turning over our greatest game to every yo-yo with a cellphone appalls me. It is on the honor of the player (and the game's rule officials) to know, abide by and call infractions upon themselves. Everyone else...butt out!

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Administrator
The thought of turning over our greatest game to every yo-yo with a cellphone appalls me. It is on the honor of the player (and the game's rule officials) to know, abide by and call infractions upon themselves. Everyone else...butt out!

And when they don't…?

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

And when they don't…?

I thought golf was the gentleman's sport where professional golfers are trustworthy and honorable.  If you believe that's no longer the case then they ALL (not just the ones worthy of television coverage) should have officials watching them like they do in the NFL, NHL and NBA.

Joe Paradiso

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Administrator
I thought golf was the gentleman's sport where professional golfers are trustworthy and honorable.  If you believe that's no longer the case then they ALL (not just the ones worthy of television coverage) should have officials watching them like they do in the NFL, NHL and NBA.

Sometimes it's simply ignorance, not a lack of honor.

For example, Camilo Villegas.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Moderator

For Villegas, I think it was more frustration than ignorance.  He was mad that he chipped it short for the second time and the ball rolled all the way back down the slope.  He swatted a chunk of divot away in frustration.

Scott

Titleist, Edel, Scotty Cameron Putter, Snell - AimPoint - Evolvr - MirrorVision

My Swing Thread

boogielicious - Adjective describing the perfect surf wave

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Was this Villegas incident recent?  I'd like to look it up.

I'm guessing this is it: http://sports.yahoo.com/golf/blog/devil_ball_golf/post/Villegas-disqualified-after-TV-viewer-called-him?urn=golf-304718

Videos appear to have been removed though.

Brandon a.k.a. Tony Stark

-------------------------

The Fastest Flip in the West

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Sometimes it's simply ignorance, not a lack of honor.

For example, Camilo Villegas.

We can agree to disagree on the topic since we're both fairly committed to our positions.

I'm curious if you're against officials watching every golfer so the rules are applied to everyone equally or are you just arguing that until officials are assigned to every hole or golfer you'd prefer call-ins be permitted?

Joe Paradiso

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Administrator
We can agree to disagree on the topic since we're both fairly committed to our positions.

I'm curious if you're against officials watching every golfer so the rules are applied to everyone equally or are you just arguing that until officials are assigned to every hole or golfer you'd prefer call-ins be permitted?

If you think it's feasible for an official to watch every golfer (and caddie, and any coaches that might say things from the galleries, etc.), or that an official watching every player would result in the rules being applied equally (at the very least, officials will rule slightly differently), then I've got oceanfront property in Idaho to sell you. It's ridiculous to think that "one official per player" is a "solution" to this. I don't even agree that there's a PROBLEM in need of a solution. I'm quite content with the way things are now.

Again, someone please list for me EVERY call-in rules violation of the past decade. The list is very, very short, and doesn't include anything involving Tiger Woods this year.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Moderator
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post

Again, someone please list for me EVERY call-in rules violation of the past decade. The list is very, very short, and doesn't include anything involving Tiger Woods this year.

There really isn't a problem.

http://www.golfchannel.com/news/rex-hoggard/the-call-in-debate-on-tour/

Quote:

It should also be pointed out that Joe Quick Dial can’t slap two on Woods, or anyone else, if a faux pas is picked up via the hi-def. A viewer can call in a possible infraction – although we can’t say how fans track down a phone number to do so – but officials are going to review the tape multiple times and consult with the player before making a ruling.

It happens every week on Tour, with the vast majority leading to no violation.

Mike McLoughlin

Check out my friends on Evolvr!
Follow The Sand Trap on Twitter!  and on Facebook
Golf Terminology -  Analyzr  -  My FacebookTwitter and Instagram 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

We hear about it often enough but apparently erroneously. An urban legend I guess. Seems like each time a penalty is assessed after the fact, a rumor pops up that somebody called it in. I'll put my money on Fox News ... Those bastards. ;). (Except Megan Kelly, I like her! ;))
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

We hear about it often enough but apparently erroneously. An urban legend I guess. Seems like each time a penalty is assessed after the fact, a rumor pops up that somebody called it in. I'll put my money on Fox News ... Those bastards. ;). (Except Megan Kelly, I like her! ;))

Finchem said they don't penalize someone because of a call-in but they do review the video and determine if a penalty is appropriate and then issue the penalty.  It seems he's carefully selected his words to minimize the apparent effect of call-ins but only his office knows for sure what initiated the review process within his office.

Joe Paradiso

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Administrator

Finchem said they don't penalize someone because of a call-in but they do review the video and determine if a penalty is appropriate and then issue the penalty.  It seems he's carefully selected his words to minimize the apparent effect of call-ins but only his office knows for sure what initiated the review process within his office.

I don't think he needs to minimize the effect. You wouldn't need to minimize the effect of (making this number up, but it's probably still too large) four call-ins in the past decade. Camilo Villegas (early 2011 season) is one. None of Tiger's this year were call-ins. The most recent was because a camera operator that filmed the footage said so. He was on-site, and caught it before Tiger had finished his round.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

If you think it's feasible for an official to watch every golfer (and caddie, and any coaches that might say things from the galleries, etc.), or that an official watching every player would result in the rules being applied equally (at the very least, officials will rule slightly differently), then I've got oceanfront property in Idaho to sell you. It's ridiculous to think that "one official per player" is a "solution" to this. I don't even agree that there's a PROBLEM in need of a solution. I'm quite content with the way things are now.

Again, someone please list for me EVERY call-in rules violation of the past decade. The list is very, very short, and doesn't include anything involving Tiger Woods this year.

Not sure if a change is necessary, but not sure that the fact that different officials would rule differently is a good argument against it.  Seems to me that there would be more uniform rulings from officials than players making judgement calls for themselves.  I say this because I assume that all the officials would have good training in the rules where this certainly doesn't seem to be the case with all the players.  i.e. regarding virtual certainty a ball is in a hazard- different officials may rule differently, but I would guess they rule much more similar to each other than a group of players.  This is less of an issue when TV cameras are present, but at lower level tournaments without cameras could be more of an issue.

Also, officials who are uncertain of a ruling could still consult with a head official for the tournament (similar to how players call in for a ruling now.

:mizuno: MP-52 5-PW, :cobra: King Snake 4 i 
:tmade: R11 Driver, 3 W & 5 W, :vokey: 52, 56 & 60 wedges
:seemore: putter

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Not fair because only the leaders that have cameras on them are being penalized....

If you were in 70th position, made the same mistake, viewers would not have seen it and called in.

So the likelihood of drawing a large paycheck is a penalty now?  I'd think that a little extra scrutiny is a small price to pay for kind of money that the top 25 will receive in any PGA tournament these days.  You guys are getting way too particular, citing one small potential deficit in a situation which any of us arguing this out here would give anything to be a part of.

If you were in 70th position an incidentally unnoticed breach would have little or no effect on the outcome of the tournament.  For a player in the top ten on the leaderboard, it very well might have a big impact.  For that reason alone I don't care about the relatively uneven application of video evidence.  Once again, nothing in the rules has ever said that anything about the game is supposed to be fair.

Rick

"He who has the fastest cart will never have a bad lie."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Once again, nothing in the rules has ever said that anything about the game is supposed to be fair.

but isn't that because it's implied? No game needs to have a rule that states "this game is fair" because that is the most important underlying premise of any game. Fairness lies in the equal application of the games rules. If a said games rules are not applied equally (an umpires strike zone doesn't have to match the rule book, but it certainly has to match for each team) then said game isn't fair. And while I have conceded that on the weekend it's no big deal (all leaders are basically on tv equally), on Thursday and Friday its still a different story.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fourputt

Once again, nothing in the rules has ever said that anything about the game is supposed to be fair.

but isn't that because it's implied? No game needs to have a rule that states "this game is fair" because that is the most important underlying premise of any game. Fairness lies in the equal application of the games rules. If a said games rules are not applied equally (an umpires strike zone doesn't have to match the rule book, but it certainly has to match for each team) then said game isn't fair.

And while I have conceded that on the weekend it's no big deal (all leaders are basically on tv equally), on Thursday and Friday its still a different story.

Fair treatment in the rules of any game means that all players are subject to the same rules.

Unfair is the opposite ... unfair is not "Boo, hoo, my ball ended up in a divot hole." or "Boo, hoo, my ball moved and I didn't see it, but someone else did."
"Age improves with wine."
 
Wishon 919THI 11*
Wishon 925HL 4w
Wishon 335HL 3h & 4h
Wishon 755pc 5i, 6i, 7i, 8i & 9i
Tad Moore 485 PW
Callaway X 54*
Ping G2 Anser C
Callaway SuperSoft
Titleist StaDry
Kangaroo Hillcrest AB
Link to comment
Share on other sites


Note: This thread is 3827 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Welcome to TST! Signing up is free, and you'll see fewer ads and can talk with fellow golf enthusiasts! By using TST, you agree to our Terms of Use, our Privacy Policy, and our Guidelines.

The popup will be closed in 10 seconds...