What's with all the withdraws in amateur tournaments?

[atxpkrgolf]

I've never played a ton of tournaments but I keep up with them a ton and I always see a ton of withdraws and DQ's. Now who knows why someone got DQ'd but what's up with all the withdraws?

It is almost always players that had a bad 1st round and cannt qualify but is that a reason to quit?  Does the USGA and State tourneys not discourage this?  I have never been a quitter but was wondering if there is some underlying theme that maybe I'm missing like respect to other competitors who are in contention or something.  Would love to hear feedback on this

[grubby98]

I would say that if an amateur played very bad and they know no matter what they cant make the cut they could withdrawal because of the cost.  Say you are away from home and you will miss cut. If you stay and play a round just to play, you will have another night of hotel, food and misc expenses plus a day of lost work that you could go back to early.  That's what my guess would be, but I am different I would play and try to show everyone that I just had a bad day and try to put a low score up for everyone to see that I do have skills.

[Strandly]

I'm sure it comes down to missing a cut, yeah.

[luu5]

That's what my guess would be, but I am different I would play and try to show everyone that I just had a bad day and try to put a low score up for everyone to see that I do have skills.

as you have the money!

[mvmac]

It is almost always players that had a bad 1st round and cannt qualify but is that a reason to quit?  Does the USGA and State tourneys not discourage this?  I have never been a quitter but was wondering if there is some underlying theme that maybe I'm missing like respect to other competitors who are in contention or something.  Would love to hear feedback on this

It's silly imo, it's just golf.  When I was playing amateur events they certainly discouraged it.  I remember the Nor Cal officials kept track of stuff like that and could effect your ability to get into future tournaments.  Obviously you'd have to have several WD's.

[Jeremie Boop]

Seems to me you already paid an entry fee correct? So if you play one round and quit you basically are throwing money away. One night hotel stay is typically not overly expensive and if you are that strapped for money then you shouldn't be spending it on amateur tournaments in the first place. *This is completely my opinion and in no way should be taken as statement of fact*

[MEfree]

*This is completely my opinion and in no way should be taken as statement of fact*

But I thought everything on the internet was true...

[RayG]

There are also the vanity/sandbagger issue. Someone who is playing badly doesn't want the good number affected. On the other hand, a sandbagger might be playing too well and will WD or DQ himself. These would folks who are in it for the hustle, not necessarily the accolades of a good tournament result.

[Jeremie Boop]

But I thought everything on the internet was true...

That's going to be my standard disclaimer because it seems some people need to be reminded that most things stated are opinion by people are based on opinion and not fact.

[Golfingdad]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeremie Boop

Seems to me you already paid an entry fee correct? So if you play one round and quit you basically are throwing money away. One night hotel stay is typically not overly expensive and if you are that strapped for money then you shouldn't be spending it on amateur tournaments in the first place. *This is completely my opinion and in no way should be taken as statement of fact*

Totally agree.

There are also the vanity/sandbagger issue. Someone who is playing badly doesn't want the good number affected. On the other hand, a sandbagger might be playing too well and will WD or DQ himself. These would folks who are in it for the hustle, not necessarily the accolades of a good tournament result.

Huh??  You lost me on this one.  Why would somebody who hopes to play poorly ever enter a tournament in the first place?

[atxpkrgolf]

It's silly imo, it's just golf.  When I was playing amateur events they certainly discouraged it.  I remember the Nor Cal officials kept track of stuff like that and could effect your ability to get into future tournaments.  Obviously you'd have to have several WD's.

Thanks for the reply, I was hoping someone in the know would answer this way and I was thinking that it should be discouraged. I had a tournament today that was going to be my first in 15 yrs cancelled b/c rain delay so I'm a little upset but that just means more time to practice

[RayG]

Totally agree. Huh??  You lost me on this one.  Why would somebody who hopes to play poorly ever enter a tournament in the first place?

they play to a certain number to maintain their hustle. Going down means giving more strokes. Going up doesn't LOOK as good. There was a thread on this subject a few months ago, IIRC. Think about this- At the PB Pro Am- An "amateur" with a "15" helps out his pro partner with some ridiculous number of strokes (since that's where the majority of strokes come from). At Pebble Beach, no less... in front of THOUSANDS of people... On Television. Playing to maintain that number helps a lot in tournaments when "all of a sudden" a career round pops up... at EXACTLY the right time. 4 times in a row no less. there was an article on one of the magazines about the 'hustles' at PB over the years and they are really trying to limit them. IF you're caught, they won't let you back, ever, from what I read. But it's notoriously hard to prove apparently. Carrying a "15" with the 'real' ability of a 6 or 7 gets you to Sunday and all the swag involved. A vanity guy will knowingly not post or WD if he is shooting to his actual ability (higher). he will cherry pick his best rounds to post to keep the low number. Telling people you're a "single" digit is better than saying an "11" or "12".

[Golfingdad]

they play to a certain number to maintain their hustle. Going down means giving more strokes. Going up doesn't LOOK as good. There was a thread on this subject a few months ago, IIRC.

Think about this- At the PB Pro Am- An "amateur" with a "15" helps out his pro partner with some ridiculous number of strokes (since that's where the majority of strokes come from). At Pebble Beach, no less... in front of THOUSANDS of people... On Television. Playing to maintain that number helps a lot in tournaments when "all of a sudden" a career round pops up... at EXACTLY the right time. 4 times in a row no less. there was an article on one of the magazines about the 'hustles' at PB over the years and they are really trying to limit them. IF you're caught, they won't let you back, ever, from what I read. But it's notoriously hard to prove apparently. Carrying a "15" with the 'real' ability of a 6 or 7 gets you to Sunday and all the swag involved.

A vanity guy will knowingly not post or WD if he is shooting to his actual ability (higher). he will cherry pick his best rounds to post to keep the low number. Telling people you're a "single" digit is better than saying an "11" or "12".

I get that a vanity capper might WD a tournament where he is playing poorly.  And I get where a sandbagger would conveniently tank, or simply fail to post, a good CASUAL round to keep the handicap up.  But what I fail to understand is why you think a sandbagger would WD in a tournament if he is playing well.  What are you sandbagging for, if not to help you win tournaments??  Get my drift??

[RayG]

What I'm trying to say is that the sandbagger withdrawing from an "amateur" tournament doesn't CARE about the trophy in a tournament, if that round will be recorded for his handicap. IF he's on or around his number, he'll stick around to make it look good. What he's trying to maintain is a number that will get the money from his victims, pigeons or whatever you call them. He's playing for REAL money when he can. Granted, it isn't a large percentage, but it is out there, seen a lot of them over the years. IT's not only in golf- Bowling, Darts, etc... anywhere there is a one-on-one aspect, there will be hustlers. How many of us have come across 'that guy' who looks like he's just come from a garage sale with his 20 yr. old clubs and herky jerky swing that is shooting 6's and 7's for several hole when he says something like "I can't concentrate without something on it, how about a buck a hole?"...? Then he might tank it up for another 1 or 2, get you to agree to double it, then all of a sudden he's dropping shots pin high and putting like there was a string pulling it into the hole. By the end he's offered you a chance to press or double it up. You put some of those good holes to blind luck and you're writing a check at the 19th hole when you lose. But that's the small potato guys. Golfers do that for a LIVING playing as agents for backers. private matches happen all the time- verified handicaps and all. That hustler is raking it in most of the time until word gets out and he moves on to new territories. My Grandad always told me to avoid ANY gambling on a course with a stranger- ESPECIALLY if you THINK you can beat him with one arm. If they suggest it- I just decline or offer to play for a beer in the clubhouse. They lose interest in the match eventually, buy me that beer or I buy theirs, and they're back on the tee working over someone else.

[Golfingdad]

What I'm trying to say is that the sandbagger withdrawing from an "amateur" tournament doesn't CARE about the trophy in a tournament, if that round will be recorded for his handicap.

And this is also why it's not really relevant to this thread.  The guy you are talking about isn't entering tournaments like this because there is no point.

How many of us have come across 'that guy' who looks like he's just come from a garage sale with his 20 yr. old clubs and herky jerky swing that is shooting 6's and 7's for several hole when he says something like "I can't concentrate without something on it, how about a buck a hole?"...? Then he might tank it up for another 1 or 2, get you to agree to double it, then all of a sudden he's dropping shots pin high and putting like there was a string pulling it into the hole. By the end he's offered you a chance to press or double it up. You put some of those good holes to blind luck and you're writing a check at the 19th hole when you lose.

In movies, books, and stories about guys like Tommy Bolt and Titanic Thompson (I think those are the right names)?  All the time.

In real life?  Never.  Not once.

[Strandly]

And this is also why it's not really relevant to this thread.  The guy you are talking about isn't entering tournaments like this because there is no point.

In movies, books, and stories about guys like Tommy Bolt and Titanic Thompson (I think those are the right names)?  All the time.

In real life?  Never.  Not once.

Same.  I ran into people who would propose a bet back when I played pool regularly but nothing since then.

[RayG]

As I mentioned, the big hustlers are a small percentage. But the little hustler working his men's group, or local course rota are definitely out there. IT may be you play with a small or regular number of people, and play the same course more often then not. You know everyone and a stranger will stand out and you know people's abilities. I play quite a bit in Florida as well as here in NY and I come across them more in Florida than around here. Maybe because I play with a regular bunch of guys here and don't get matched up with 'outsiders'. But in Florida, I'm teeing up as a single almost all of the time and have more opportunities to meet up with them. A few chunked iron shots after decent drives, a few skulled chips, an offer of a little game "to make it interesting", etc... "No thanks, just out to enjoy myself", but maybe one of the other guys he's been hooked up in our 4 some will bite. I keep my mouth shut about anything other than trying to keep pleasant conversation and make it an enjoyable day for me. Let them learn the lesson. A few take it with a smile and believe it was actually a close match, and others start to catch on later in the round and clam up, finish the round and pay up. Many don't even realize they've been had. It isn't for a LOT of money, but I'd rather keep mine than have to pay someone else's bar tabs.

[phan52]

I've never played a ton of tournaments but I keep up with them a ton and I always see a ton of withdraws and DQ's. Now who knows why someone got DQ'd but what's up with all the withdraws?

It is almost always players that had a bad 1st round and cannt qualify but is that a reason to quit?  Does the USGA and State tourneys not discourage this?  I have never been a quitter but was wondering if there is some underlying theme that maybe I'm missing like respect to other competitors who are in contention or something.  Would love to hear feedback on this

The Golf Association of Philadelphia will restrict your play if you are guilty of multiple withdrawals.

FAILURE TO RETURN A SCORECARD
Any player who fails to return a scorecard to the scoreboard official or who withdraws during play without notifying an official and personally surrendering his scorecard to that official will be suspended from play in all GAP tournaments for one year. Suspension includes the following year's event at which the infraction occurred.

NO SHOWS
Those players who fail to appear for their assigned time without notifying GAP and/or the host club will be suspended from playing in all GAP tournaments for one year. Suspension includes the following year's event at which the infraction occurred.

WITHDRAWALS
Players may withdraw from any tournament at any time. Players withdrawing from an event prior to the closing date of the specified tournament will be refunded their entrance fee minus an administrative fee. Players withdrawing from an event after the start of play may do so only twice in a two year period. Violations of this policy may be subject to suspension. The player must inform a tournament official as soon as possible, exchange his marker's card and return his own scorecard to the tournament official.