Pace Problem

[phillyk]

  On 11/12/2019 at 2:13 PM, Cartboy said:

That's why I ask how many of y'all have marshaled a tough course on a busy day . . . . you will hear every excuse in the book.

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My course labor day weekend, I've had to marshal (usually when our normal volunteer marshals don't like the pressure of asking trouble people to speed up) as I'm known as the harder hitter, I guess.  I just don't put up with BS.  The easiest thing to say that does get people going is acknowledging they paid X money to play, but so did the 50 other golfers stacked up behind you and they want to have a good time too.  I think I've only once asked people to go in and get a rain check to come back during a slower day.  Most of the time, it doesn't take a lot for people to speed up, because most don't understand that they are being slow.  Pace this season picked up by 20min or so on busy days, because of the GPS having a pace ticker.  It'll tell you if you're ahead, on pace, or how slow.

[Patch]

Our group expierienced a slow pace problem yesterday. It took us 4 walkers, a little over 5 hours to complete our round. 

No one played through anyone, since there was no place to play through too if they did. Everyone basically had to play at the same pce. 

In this instance, the golfers of different playing speeds were not the problem. It was a holiday Monday, three day weekend for folks, and the course was quite full. Maybe even over booked with green fees.

Really can't blame the course for taking advantage of the situation, while making a few wxtra dollars. 

The folks at the counter were up front about letting folks know, that the rounds were  taking longer than normal, due to the high number of golfers wanting to play. 

I assume today's round will go a little faster, since a lot of folks had to go back to work. 

Edited November 12, 2019 by Patch

[jetsknicks1]

  On 11/11/2019 at 10:28 PM, Beastie said:

A five iron across the knuckles is too good for em. 

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I think that’s the thing that bugs me most. Slow all the way thru the hole and than blast off the tee as they see our group approaching lol.

[Beastie]

  On 11/12/2019 at 2:13 PM, Cartboy said:

Not really a good option when the teesheet is packed.  They would have to let every group behind them play through.

 

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Yes, that's what they should do if they are that slow. If my buddy's and I played the group in front of them the back nine would empty and we would be having a beer as they got to the turn. Kick em off. If they can't get round any quicker than 6 hrs kick em off and ban em..............forever!!

[David in FL]

  On 11/12/2019 at 2:13 PM, Cartboy said:

Not really a good option when the teesheet is packed.  They would have to let every group behind them play through.

That's why I ask how many of y'all have marshaled a tough course on a busy day . . . . you will hear every excuse in the book.  One of my favorites was a cigar-smoking, smart-talking older guy who had 3 young bucks in his group.  They had held up a 2-some all day, and at the third visit from me, on the 12th tee, he read me the riot-act with some choice, colorful words, saying it was the course's fault for allowing 2-somes to play.  He said he paid twice what they paid, so he was playing the way he wanted.

I went back and talked to the 2-some, a husband and wife, and told them they would have to go around that foursome.

Not long later I saw them at their car.  They were not upset, but they quit and came in because they did not want to upset the 4-some.

See, that's when  I'd like to be able to pull out my tablet and see if they wanted to re-play at a discount.

BTW, some 2-somes, often couples, won't book unless we block the other two slots at their tee time.

 

 

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You had a choice.  Run off the 2-some, or run off the offenders.  You chose to run off the 2-some...

Make no mistake, the 2-some was upset, even if it didn’t show.  They made plans for a pleasant day that they now had to change halfway through because of someone else.  They may never return.  I wouldn’t.  Given the choice, I’d much rather the offending group take their attitude elsewhere...

Edited November 12, 2019 by David in FL

[Double Mocha Man]

  On 11/12/2019 at 5:10 PM, jetsknicks1 said:

I think that’s the thing that bugs me most. Slow all the way thru the hole and than blast off the tee as they see our group approaching lol.

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Which means they do know how to play faster... they just don't want to.  And they don't want to let you play through.

[Cartboy]

  On 11/12/2019 at 8:46 PM, David in FL said:

 You chose to run off the 2-some...

 

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Ouch! . . . Your words.

I would never "run off" anyone, because we prefer to be diplomatic.

&, if I/we weren't diplomatic, and did "run off" someone, it would not be the victims.

Maybe I didn't explain it properly . . . I was quite surprised to see them at their car, and went and talked to them, and expressed my disappointment to see them leaving.  I told them I had hoped they would skip a hole and go around the slow group, but they said they didn't want to.

If I had a dollar for every golfer/customer I have spent a moment of quality time with the last 13 years, I could retire.  I could, but I wouldn't.

😁

 

  On 11/12/2019 at 3:38 PM, Patch said:

Our group expierienced a slow pace problem yesterday. It took us 4 walkers, a little over 5 hours to complete our round. 

No one played through anyone, since there was no place to play through too if they did. Everyone basically had to play at the same pce. 

In this instance, the golfers of different playing speeds were not the problem. It was a holiday Monday, three day weekend for folks, and the course was quite full. Maybe even over booked with green fees.

Really can't blame the course for taking advantage of the situation, while making a few wxtra dollars. 

The folks at the counter were up front about letting folks know, that the rounds were  taking longer than normal, due to the high number of golfers wanting to play. 

I assume today's round will go a little faster, since a lot of folks had to go back to work. 

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I couldn't have said it better.  There are days that when you lose it, there's nothing you can do about it.  But being there, and talking to folks, helps.

That's when I'd like to pull out the tee sheet tablet and book them another round at a discount, on the spot.

In my capacity now, the way the schedule is set up, when I am the only one "out front" in the morning, the Pro or GM/Pro do the marshaling.  Our beverage cart girls help keep us informed, too, which is a big help.

Edited November 14, 2019 by Cartboy

[Double Mocha Man]

  On 11/14/2019 at 12:58 AM, Cartboy said:

Our beverage cart girls help keep us informed, too, which is a big help.

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Oh, those snitches!  I'll never look at a beverage cart girl the same again.  😄

[Cartboy]

  On 11/14/2019 at 1:07 AM, Double Mocha Man said:

Oh, those snitches!  I'll never look at a beverage cart girl the same again.  😄

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Funny, because the last slow group I had to deal with on our last really busy day, The beverage cart girl told me, "Don't mention me . . . I still have to deal with those pricks."

😀

I came back to mention that on that particular day, my first time around, one of our lady members told me that the beverage cart girl told her that the problem group had been abusive to her.  So, things were brewing.  The problem group was one in a group of five 4-somes playing together, so when crunch time came, and the problem group had failed to speed up, I went to their leader's group and asked what they wanted done.  They said that group is always their problem group, so everyone but the problem group was on the same page.

Edited November 14, 2019 by Cartboy

[Double Mocha Man]

  On 11/14/2019 at 1:10 AM, Cartboy said:

Funny, because the last slow group I had to deal with on our last really busy day, The beverage cart girl told me, "Don't mention me . . . I still have to deal with those pricks."

😀

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Funny stuff!

[Cartboy]

I have to say . . . this "Hang 'em High" Attitude might sound good on an Internet forum, but it doesn't float in real life in the golf course business.

🥴

[Beastie]

  On 11/14/2019 at 1:10 AM, Cartboy said:

Funny, because the last slow group I had to deal with on our last really busy day, The beverage cart girl told me, "Don't mention me . . . I still have to deal with those pricks."

😀

I came back to mention that on that particular day, my first time around, one of our lady members told me that the beverage cart girl told her that the problem group had been abusive to her.  So, things were brewing.  The problem group was one in a group of five 4-somes playing together, so when crunch time came, and the problem group had failed to speed up, I went to their leader's group and asked what they wanted done.  They said that group is always their problem group, so everyone but the problem group was on the same page.

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And yet your company did nothing to protect its employee from the abuse. Do you not have a zero tolerance policy for such things? It just goes to show though, slow golfers are pricks in more than one way.......

[Cartboy]

After 20 years on Internet forums, I find it non-productive to banter with abrasive people who are not party to the facts. 

It's a lot like trying to deal with an abrasive group on the golf course.  Sometimes you just can't; nothing you say or do will make any difference.

😎

 

 

 

[David in FL]

  On 11/14/2019 at 12:58 AM, Cartboy said:

Ouch! . . . Your words.

I would never "run off" anyone, because we prefer to be diplomatic.

&, if I/we weren't diplomatic, and did "run off" someone, it would not be the victims.

Maybe I didn't explain it properly . . . I was quite surprised to see them at their car, and went and talked to them, and expressed my disappointment to see them leaving.  I told them I had hoped they would skip a hole and go around the slow group, but they said they didn't want to.

If I had a dollar for every golfer/customer I have spent a moment of quality time with the last 13 years, I could retire.  I could, but I wouldn't.

😁

I

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Yeah, that came off more aggressive than I wanted.  Sorry.  

The fact remains though, you (the course, because I know you’re simply implementing their policies) gave the couple only one option that they were unable to accept, to skip a hole.  They decided to leave instead.  You could have equally given an even easier option to the offending group.  Either skip a hole or let the 2-some through...or ultimately, they could leave.  

I understand the challenges there, but in this case, the offending group was allowed to continue their disruptive behavior, while those that were affected by them left and may or may not return.  

[Bucki1968]

  On 11/14/2019 at 1:22 AM, Cartboy said:

I have to say . . . this "Hang 'em High" Attitude might sound good on an Internet forum, but it doesn't float in real life in the golf course business.

🥴

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I used to work at an upscale semi-private course in the Tampa area (this was 20 years ago). We actually would remove slow groups when they continued to play slow. Now that being said...we were busy. Especially in season. Out tee sheet was booked every day. Out head pro and the owner (who played there very often) decided it was better to piss off one group than the entire golf course. You got warnings (we had a marshal on both nines) and if you didn't close the gap, you were asked to leave and got a refund. It only needed to be done for a few months because our course then got the reputation that it would not tolerate slow play and it solved the problem. Times are different now. Too many golf courses completing for golfers. 

[Cartboy]

Yup . . . "Too many golf courses completing for golfers."

A general answer to some of the replies, to try to explain why we run our business the way we do . . . we are in a small regional tourist area that has become a hotbed of excellent golf courses.  Three of Golfweek's Top Ten in the State are here.  It is highly competitive between us and 6 other courses, and, frankly, the market is not big enough to keep all of them busy.

"Running people off" would not be in our best interest.  We have as a last resort, but it's not high on our list.  "Running people off" would likely get us the reputation of "running people off."

As I have said a few times, I prefer us being out there on the course, being encouraging, supportive, and diplomatic, and, when that does not work, to offer the victims of slow play a chance to come back and experience our #1 course under better conditions, at a discount.

Turning Lemons into Lemonade.

But, understanding my role, it's not my call, and will be what will be.

Edited November 15, 2019 by Cartboy

[David in FL]

  On 11/15/2019 at 4:12 PM, Cartboy said:

.

"Running people off" would not be in our best interest.  We have as a last resort, but it's not high on our list.  "Running people off" would likely get us the reputation of "running people off."

.

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Or, it would give you the reputation for actually managing pace of play, and being intolerant of those who cannot maintain an appropriate pace.

That’s a course a LOT of people will flock to, knowing that the course won’t tolerate bad behavior in order to get one extra greens fee at the expense of disrupting others.

You can’t keep everyone happy.  You can decide which behaviors to reward and which to punish.  I know that “reward and punish” are strong words, but ultimately that’s what’s happening…   In the previous example we were talking about, the couple was punished by either having to skip a hole, being made to play at an uncomfortably slow pace, or the option that they chose, to leave.  The slow, offending foursome was rewarded by being allowed to play at the pace of play they liked without any consequence whatsoever, under the guise of diplomacy.  There’s an old saying, “diplomacy is like trying to convince somebody that it’s possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.“    Unfortunately that just never works…

[chile]

got stuck in, between and around a bunch of groups today...the marshal came out and asked if it was an issue...at the time, it wasn't but after he came through, it seemed like everyone slowed even more :/...first group let me play through only to be trapped behind a 5-some...so I skipped the following hole.  then got stuck behind another group...played a few strokes, then skipped the rest of that hole.  only one group offered to let me play through 😕